ติดตั้ง Steam
เข้าสู่ระบบ
|
ภาษา
简体中文 (จีนตัวย่อ)
繁體中文 (จีนตัวเต็ม)
日本語 (ญี่ปุ่น)
한국어 (เกาหลี)
български (บัลแกเรีย)
Čeština (เช็ก)
Dansk (เดนมาร์ก)
Deutsch (เยอรมัน)
English (อังกฤษ)
Español - España (สเปน)
Español - Latinoamérica (สเปน - ลาตินอเมริกา)
Ελληνικά (กรีก)
Français (ฝรั่งเศส)
Italiano (อิตาลี)
Bahasa Indonesia (อินโดนีเซีย)
Magyar (ฮังการี)
Nederlands (ดัตช์)
Norsk (นอร์เวย์)
Polski (โปแลนด์)
Português (โปรตุเกส - โปรตุเกส)
Português - Brasil (โปรตุเกส - บราซิล)
Română (โรมาเนีย)
Русский (รัสเซีย)
Suomi (ฟินแลนด์)
Svenska (สวีเดน)
Türkçe (ตุรกี)
Tiếng Việt (เวียดนาม)
Українська (ยูเครน)
รายงานปัญหาเกี่ยวกับการแปลภาษา
กฎและแนวทางปฏิบัติในกระดานสนทนา
รายงานโพสต์นี้
If kb would be accessible for 2h hammers charged attack - i would place it there.
Oh shield - you lose too much for this. It wont help you clear hordes FAST ENOUGH to make difference. If weapon reach with basic attack would be same to shield`s push - i could think about it, but even in this case i would need to remove hkb on character that dont have ranged weapon to melt ogre in critical situation. And if you count on team - you dont need kb cause you count on team.
Also, following your logic - with 10 rats i have 150% chance to do 10 dmg. Chances are not summed. Using your words - maths.
And i got blue mace with kb, blue shields with kb. I always try to test. I just have not made an statistics test for mace with KB to check do it procs on inf targets or not. Cause even if do - it wont get me real benefits, so why would i test it.
I say better lose 1 trinket than 2 traits. Both options are bad in my opinion and i would recommend to resolve this issue in otyher way than kb/poison. Best option - took weapon that fits the situation
Also, poison trinket can be used by shotgunners (helps vs SV in crowd and Slighly vs ratgunners). And mace is good option for shotgunner as melee weapon. So you can take orange mace and get 3 traits.
On shield: How do you know that kb dont make enough difference? You said you didnt tested kb, you dont even know if it procs on inf targets. When kb procs you hear sound fx, like a drum.
Normal attack of hammer+shield or just hammer have same reach as the shield push, maybe a bit more.
If you count on the team to take down the ogre, then you dont need KB, that helps in killing hordes? Lol what?
Yes they are not summed, that means it can proc twice on 6 rats that got hit in 1 swing, i made it easier to understand for you.
1. yes it would
2. read again. I runned couple of days with blue mace&shield. After it i returned to orange sword and shield. It heals and kills more without any kb involved
3. when looking from side on it its like 1/3 less than shield push.
4. read again. If you count on team, then work on team. CC and let team do easy and safe kills, focus on your role instead of let them be hit on random. If you dont count on team - you need HKB to kill ogre w/o team. Both scenarios exclude KB. Simple enough
5. it also can proc 0 or 6. but with big numbers of rats (which are usually around 200-300 for 1 person on long map) it would be 1 on 6,(6) rats (later edit: i realized that here i was not accurate enough. It would be 1 on 6,(6) hits. If count on rats it would be another, as long as inf attack dont do dmg, so you would need to keep hit, until...)
2. You might want to test hammer/mace+shield more, maybe you didnt noticed its effectiveness. Or just 1h hammer with kb. You know when kb procs right?- in that case rat explodes in pieces and you hear a drum sound fx.
3. Test from 1st person view. Shields have 2.5 range of push, most of other wpns have 2 range of push, which is noticeably lower than reach of clanrats attacks, while 1h hammers/maces normal attacks have roughly same reach as clanrats attacks.
4. With kb you do cc and ck at the same time, what's not like about it? Yes you lose 3% (such big %) chance to instakill ogre that spawns once in a map, with really slow shield attack. While KB works for the whole map.
5. you right, proc is roughly 1 in 6 rats, but you dont hit 1 rat every swing, you hit 2-8 or more. For example, there is 8 rats, in 1st case, you do 1 attack on each rat, 8 total. Lets say 1 of them dies to kb. 2nd case, you hit all 8 rats with 8 attacks, roghly 4-5 should die. Its math dude :P
2. I use kb regularry, thx. And runned with 1h hammer on dwarf with kb just on this week. Yes its sound is pleasant, but it still does not make kb worth. Teammates would slave/clan faster than your kb if you just stand with raised shield and push in needed time, protecting them from being hit. And if SV`s appears in middle of horde your swing wont provide enough cc to protect teamates (cause sv) and it would be better to switch on charged, what will make kb inefficient again.
4. With kb i cc only vs hordes w/o SV, as were said before. And 3%.... With sword&shield (axe&shield) you`ll do about 3 charged attacks in same time that you deal 1 mace&shield swing.
After vertical 1-handers (mace, axe) that shields are 2nd in efficiency melee weapons to kill rogre.
5. Yes it is. And its pretty bad chances. So better build team-oriented weapon to help team, then to make hybrid of reduced efficiency. greatly reduced, if keep in mind that it is blue, it is mace/hammer, so you have way slower charged attack (which is preferable in most cases, cause it control SV too, unlike swings) and you lack or heal or defensive trait.
Is shield&mace/hammers charged fast enough to spam?
Got the red mace and shield on kruber atm which is also my least played character (by far).
Tried playing him for some time and while hit hit push works fine I also tried charged attacking on sv/normal rat combos where sv would have stopped my swings. Got hit not always but a few times doing that. Should I mix in more pushs? When to use charged?
4. The difference in speed cant be that big, you are exaggerating, i think its 1.5 charged attacks of axe+shield = 1 normal swing of hammer+shield. Check ingame.
5. Where i see good effectiveness vs more than 3 rats, you see bad chances. Its an odd world really. Anyway, you say that u use kb weapons regularly, i dont believe you actually do that, atleast not KB maces/hammers with intention to kill med-big groups of normal rats.
Instead of charged attack to control SV in horde, you have 5 pushes with good reach with 360 deg. radius. Slow charged on hammer+shield - its inborn weakness.
it's a bit slower to spam, but yeah i guess. it's a lot trickier to time the fast bashes though. spamming is usually not your best choice outside of a corridor though....
Because 3% of regrowth is equals to the chance to triggers an HKB. You know you can nearly proc it around maybe 10-15 time in a regular cata map.
Even if the infinite targets allows you to procs your traits on all the targets you hit, 3% is 3%. In other hand do the same with 15% :)
Kb/reg on the blue shield is deadly. I know you like going against most of gear template, but c'mon. 15% on infinite targets is something you cant deny.
Because when laggy, you will only get frustrations..
2h hammer can get "stuck" after you push on minimally lagged servers and you will be at the mercy of enemies unless you switch fast.
2h hammer can be interrupted almost all the time. So unless you're good at predicting where your horrible placed hitboxes will be.. you will get a lot of trouble. Specially when surrounded.
2. teammatesare faster and there is nor real reason (excpet "i want kill some too!!") to lose other staff for this one thing. If you do want kill while cc - go 2h sword/ pick/ 2haxe with dev blow/imp pommel combo.
There is much easier and safer ways to take rat`s aggro. Also, you dont need kb to take aggre at all
They are not "a bit" slow, they are significantly slower than real cc. And moving camera only help to control more rats, while still taking too much time for it. If it it not much rats near you, to let you perform this freely - you have easier ways to deal with them. especially if you r with a&s or s&s.
Exactly about SV and pushes. So use ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ charged attacks instead of push or basic attack on mace. More reliable, better effect, faster speed.
And yes - its stupid to take KB and stay with raised shield. As well as pick shield to kill rats. If you want kill/cc - there are MUCH better options, that offers you more. Especially on dwarf
4. I preform about 2. experienced players do about 3. You can do same with macro if you want. Check ingame
5. If i want to be AOE rats killer - i will get another weapon. There is much better options. Kb on maces/hammers force me to lose too much for not significant, or even niche outcome. Only scenario i can imagine to use this is if you got kruber+dwarf both with maces/hammers to compensate lack of killing speed of group. But it is very odd scenario, cause - why the hell i refuse to pick another weapon?
I use KB on rapier, 1h sword, regularry having fun with red pick, played with 1h hammer with KB for some time last week. Excpet last one i feel it as useful trait when used right. On maces/hammers i feel myself like Trying to be "allarounder" while lacking in all roles. Well, it could work if you would have "allarounder" ranged weapon. Like some build of flach+xbow. But you not, so its just a fantasies.
You have only 5 pushes with 360. And you still need to save some stamina "in case of". If you stil have SV in a ♥♥♥♥ unkilled after first 2 pushes - smth definetly goes wrong (like your teammates distracted, got pressed, gasrtat cut their aim, etc) So you would face not only this SV but several more with upcoming horde. You will run of of stamina faster than your kb proc. Same to pick+df pistols. Its awesome combo, but if you, for some reason, forced to deal with situation alone - you would need dev.blow on pick. Cause you would face overheat faster, than you kill even half of rats if you wont help yourslef with pushes.
Simple logic all over here - if you can rely on your teammates - do your part of job and do it as good as you could, instead of trying to do all. Focus on strong sides and use them - it always better both for you and your mates. And if you cant rely on your teammates - dont pick team-oriented weapon at first place.
And yes, charged attack on hammer + shield is not good. Its one of reasons why you better pick axe+shield.
I dont deny it. If it would be possible to pick on orange - it would be smth to think about. Cause blue force you to wear off or heal or dev blow or defensive trait (based on playstyle you choose).
And even if that is possible - still other reasons applies
1. Lack of AO ranged on both of characters, paired with low dmg output on melee (If they wont change KB dmg in next beta phases - i would start possibily use blue sword&shield. It would start to have sense)
2. Getting 1 trait that dont fits weapon strong sides, while you got other weapon on this characters that can do it better.
Also i should mention that i tested that 3% regrows via spawn enemies. Its was tricky, cause axe kills first target, so i was forced to despawn/spawn again after each hit. On real cata run i see no point in regr on this weapons at all. Bloodlust or scavanger for heals would be better option (if it would somehow be not obvious - scav to gain ammo for ranged weapon with more or less effective heal. Or monster heal, like dwarf xbow.)
And also - kb on 1h hammer of dwarf would be more reliant if it would have greater reach. at least as soldiers mace, for example. Also i found KB/regr much more viable on kkruber`s blue mace, it starts fit your weapon (cause you obviously will go as rifle or blunder as ranged option with this), But still you have no AO ranged, so its questionable. And if you dont want HKB at all - dev blow would also make more impact on killing speed, cause you would make a space to do a reload-shot, so orange still looks more profitable to me. Also Getting more ammo making more impact on through-map run than kb in this case.
Anyway - i can see a point of using kb on 1h mace (even i still found that summary its more like loss), its not that significant difference and its kinda "what fits you best", while when we talk about shield weapons - you trade your role for smth that force you to lose too much in all aspects. There is better weapon options for playstyle you want to achieve.
To be clear
My mismatches with genreall opinions are
1. about SnD, its purpose and strong sides
2. About blue shield weaponry. However i see as solid reason Field of view it provide. First of all game should be comfortable.
3. Wide-spread opinion that 2h sword should be used with charged attacks vs horde.
4. Triple xbow as must-have option on cata for WH.
5. FB staff as strongest staff atm. I state and will do so that its simplest and only in that way it is "strongest".
About other weapons i agree or just have some notes, that dont worth a mention here.
You can trigger kb and reg on all the targets you hit, and the radius of the 2 first strikes are kinda fair to be effective, in an ambush you can so trigger KB nearly 5 or 6 time in a row, and its not rare to triggers it on the same strike. I run it, on an average value, i done most of my cata run with 250 melee kills.
I didnt spoke about 1h hammer because i dont like them. The pattern i mean. So i only talk for blue shields there.
I also have my own pov for other weapons considered as meta. The FB staff ; i dont like it, i find it useless if you care about damage taken, but i dont deny is Strengh and run with it on Town Meeting. In map, my love is dedicaced to the beam staff. Peoples are not agree with me and swear only by the FB. :D