FOX BLADE too stronk

[Ubercactus]

well i started on very hard and equipped this sword thinking it wouldn't affect that much, but omg just ninja running throught everything and getting free S ranks is way too easy with this , i know this isn't a discussion but i just wanted to say that lol

[Sparrow]

Originally posted by Laika:

Originally posted by 白雀:

Actually...not this, entirely. The game is on steam and has achievements. There's even a "rarest achievement" showcase for your profile. While others obtaining the Stormbringer achievement usig the fox blade may not affect YOUR obtaining of the achievement, it does take away the exclusivity, and thus reduces bragging rights, of such a difficult achievement for those who achieved it using balanced gameplay. A very low portion of the population has the achievement already, but when there is an OBVIOUSLY OP item that you can still use to get the achievement on equal grounds as those who use balanced gameplay...it reduces the value of the achievement as more people can obtain it using items that have been clearly labeled as "cheat items" in the community.

So a statement that "there are no leaderboards" is a bit misleading. No, they are not ACTUAL leaderboards, but there does exist a degree of competition since there are percentage measurements for those who have 'X' achievement (inducing the same type of mentality as getting 1st in a "real" leaderboard). In light of this type of "leaderboard", having the fox blade directly reduce your ranking would be a reasonable design decision as it would level the playing field with regards to achievements. Especially when the vast majority of the community considers the item to be a "gimmick" or "cheat" item. :)

except people can just as easily, in fact MORE easily unlock achievements using a third party program just at the hit of a button

That's true. However, you may notice that my entire post is about game design decisions and not player decisions. The question for me, as it is the focus of my post, is not necessarily how to prevent easy achievement obtainment altogether, but how the developers themselves could discourage it in the form of legitimate play. I was addressing the developer's circle of influence..not the player's. They can control how people play their game up to the point that it is in the consumers hands. Every developer does this simply through designing their game which was the focus of my post. :)

3rd party issues are a different argument and problem altogether.

[Sparrow]

Originally posted by Nick Naughty:

Originally posted by 白雀:

Hey, look a reasonable assessment!! :D haha!! Anyway, you're right that Stormbringer is still highly valued. The message I am personally wanting to convey is that it isn't as valued as it COULD be since the fox blade incurs no penalty...even if the devaluing is by a small margin, it is there and some people make huge deals out of that. Though, yes, bragging rights are still very much there regardless. :) So, what I said was more about potential of value rather than presence or absence of value.

Fox blade does occur a penalty, your doing less damage to bosses compared to a Murasama.

This is off-topic and not beneficial to the actual discussion. We are talking about combat rank and achievements, not damage output (a totally separate topic).

Not to mention my statement saying "[. . .] the fox blade incurs no penalty." was directly referring to rank penalty and could have been read as "[. . .] the fox blade incurs no direct penalty to one's rank in combat." Maybe that clears it up for you. :)

[Nick Naughty]

Originally posted by 白雀:

Originally posted by Nick Naughty:

Fox blade does occur a penalty, your doing less damage to bosses compared to a Murasama.

This is off-topic and not beneficial to the actual discussion. We are talking about combat rank and achievements, not damage output (a totally separate topic).

Not to mention my statement saying "[. . .] the fox blade incurs no penalty." was directly referring to rank penalty and could have been read as "[. . .] the fox blade incurs no direct penalty to one's rank in combat." Maybe that clears it up for you. :)

Is it off-topic, fox blade will be great at times and handicapping at other periods, this will make gaining stormbringer just as differcult to achieve.

[Shin Dan]

See, there's this thing called free will, it magically allows you to avoid using the blade if you hate its balancing issues so much. nobody is forcing you to kill ♥♥♥♥ with grey foxes sword, you can always use raiden's blade, hell, you can use the wooden sword if you're feeling masochistic.

[keronshb]

Originally posted by himohillo:

Originally posted by keronshb:

It's just an achievement, who cares.

Achievements are (or should be) something that you get after accomplishing something. Not equipping a weapon which you can purchase after two levels and just running slash everything to get the highest scores which nets you an achievement while there are people who did it the hard way of not using "cheats"

So I guess I "cheated" by cheaping out Emerald weapon in FF7 back on PS1. Guess I shouldn't deserve that win then, right?

[Piyoko]

lol wait how can you get fox blade in just two levels? that things 200k, you cant get that much in just two levels

[Helmic]

@self control: Yes, that's an option, but it's less fun to have to conciously balance the game yourself rather than going balls deep into trying to find the most effective stategy, especially if it ends up interfering with the first playthrough of a game.

[Sparrow]

Originally posted by keronshb:

Originally posted by himohillo:

Achievements are (or should be) something that you get after accomplishing something. Not equipping a weapon which you can purchase after two levels and just running slash everything to get the highest scores which nets you an achievement while there are people who did it the hard way of not using "cheats"

So I guess I "cheated" by cheaping out Emerald weapon in FF7 back on PS1. Guess I shouldn't deserve that win then, right?

It's not about deserving the win, it's about deserving the achievement. It's a very specific discussion. You should have read my proposal more thoroughly before posting this.

[Chopz]

Originally posted by Laika:

lol wait how can you get fox blade in just two levels? that things 200k, you cant get that much in just two levels

Through the infinite BP exploit in the second level I believe.

[Helmic]

Originally posted by Iskandel:

Originally posted by Laika:

lol wait how can you get fox blade in just two levels? that things 200k, you cant get that much in just two levels

Through the infinite BP exploit in the second level I believe.

No, just by saving up BP instead of spending it on upgrades, while finding secrets, doing a few VR missions, and getting B, A, and S ranks. 200,000 is a lot, but it's something you can reasonably save up for during the game which makes its reveal as a cheat weapon a little jarring, especially since if you then decide it's going to make hte game trivial you have no more BP to spend on your other upgrades.

[Piyoko]

Originally posted by Iskandel:

Originally posted by Laika:

lol wait how can you get fox blade in just two levels? that things 200k, you cant get that much in just two levels

Through the infinite BP exploit in the second level I believe.

how many people know of such a thing, though? one wouldnt guess that you could do such a thing off the top of their head without googling "MGR farm BP"

[Nick Naughty]

Originally posted by NCiv Helmic:

Originally posted by Iskandel:

Through the infinite BP exploit in the second level I believe.

No, just by saving up BP instead of spending it on upgrades, while finding secrets, doing a few VR missions, and getting B, A, and S ranks. 200,000 is a lot, but it's something you can reasonably save up for during the game which makes its reveal as a cheat weapon a little jarring, especially since if you then decide it's going to make hte game trivial you have no more BP to spend on your other upgrades.

Problem with that is your handicapping yourself for the sake of one weapon and if you spend those points on skills and upgrades your have an easy time anyway. This is not forgetting if your really that good at the game to be able to play with a handicap, do you really need the fox blade in the first place.

[Helmic]

That's the thing - you don't, and now your option is either play the game without any upgrades or play it with what's effectively a cheat. With prior Metal Gear games the cheat weapons weren't included unless you played on a very low dificulty or beat the game. It's not well implemented, but I still say it's better to have it than not.

[Constantine]

oh get new game file and start over:). personaly i would not. i would spend the money on anything i din't have unlocked

[keronshb]

Originally posted by NCiv Helmic:

That's the thing - you don't, and now your option is either play the game without any upgrades or play it with what's effectively a cheat. With prior Metal Gear games the cheat weapons weren't included unless you played on a very low dificulty or beat the game. It's not well implemented, but I still say it's better to have it than not.

You can still get Big Boss Rank using Stealth Camo and the Bandanna in MGS1.