METAL GEAR RISING: REVENGEANCE

METAL GEAR RISING: REVENGEANCE

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Zyrconia Jan 12, 2015 @ 3:46pm
I really don't get this game's combat
So I went through the prologue mission and found it fun, absolutely devoid of difficulty but it did set the tone and was looking forward to a crazy awesome game...

And then the first level came. After the first couple of cyborgs and some electrolyte talk I got to the first real encounter in the game: a bunch of cyborgs on two different levels, and a cow or two and I have died every single time I have tried it. Like died really badly.

I have played Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2 and Lords of the Fallen. Dark souls 2 I played without a shield and I am on NG+, still without a shield. I have played almost all God of War games, some on hard. I have played Castlevania Lords of the Fallen and did over half on it on the hardest difficulty (for trophies). Played Darksiders and Darksiders 2 I'm playing on hard. On DMC I have it in my infinite backlog to reach and play some nephelim mode. Played Bayonetta. Probaly other such games too. I'm not trying to say that I'm great at such games, but I am good and love such games.

Yet I find this game near impossible. I think I literally have no idea what to do. Mobs have a lot of hit points so just comboing them will get you hit. Running around a lot with the sprint function and hoping to get foes one by one will get you hit. There is no block or dodge or elegant witch time like system.

Am I supposed to parry every single hit or how the hell is this game designed to work? And do I have a chache to beat it with an old gamepad with stiff and unresponsive sticks that doesn't always pick up my inputs?

PS: I know I could use stealth, but that's not the gameplay style I have chosen for my playthough.
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Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
HereticJ Jan 12, 2015 @ 4:39pm 
The game does a really poor job of explaining its mechanics. Really I think it's an issue with all Platinum developed games. Basically you want to parry as often as you can, and all that means is hitting the "light attack" button while moving towards the enemy you want to parry.

I think what makes this so confusing is that it is basically the opposite of what most action games do - which is have you dodge out of the way. So say it's Dark Souls and an enemy swings at you. The swing indicates you need to move, so you hit the dodge button and push directionally away from the attack. Now for Revengeance: an enemy swings toward you. The swing (and often red crosshair light will blink) will indicate you need to press the light attack button as you push directionally toward the enemy.

Just keep doing it over and over, even while being attacked and you will eventually get the hang of it and the game will "click". I hope this helps, stick with it!
1.) Stealth is rarely if ever a possibility, so your choice to eschew it is a good one.

2.) Parrying is your only defense until you buy Defensive Offense, otherwise known as the dodge move. It offers you a few frames of invincibility, so you still need to get the timing down on it. (It requires far more precision than just parrying, but it's also your only means of avoiding otherwise unavoidable attacks.)

3.) That said, parrying is essential. The cow mechs (called Gekkos) usually telegraph their attacks with an orange glow on their legs. They'll also lower their heads and ready a charging attack. Any time during these wind-ups you can do the parry (Tilt stick in direction of attack + Light Attack); even if Raiden's parry animation finishes before the attack comes, you can usually just parry again and he'll cancel his own animation.

4.) The soldiers on two levels are easy enough to deal with before, during, or after you decide to deal with the Gekkos. These ones you can Zandatsu (blade mode, hit the red square) right away for easy dispatching.

5.) I'm fairly certain you've figured out the soldiers' tells, but they'll sparkle red before their attack, giving you your visual cue to parry. When they glow orange, they're lining up for an unblockable attack and/or grab.

6.) You can lock onto enemies with R1/RB.

7.) If you should happen to parry an attack at the last moment, you'll perform what's called a perfect parry, where Raiden blocks the blow and does an automatic follow-up attack that (usually) allows you to go right into Zandatsu.

8.) So... yeah. Parrying is an important mechanic to learn. If you're used to parrying in the Souls games, doing the same in this game should be no problem. It requires a bit more split-second calculation than just pressing L2, is all. (Though, since you say you usually stick to shieldless, presumably double-handed builds, I imagine you might not have much experience with parrying, in fact...)

9.) Your gamepad could very well be what's holding you back. The game requires quick flicks of the left analog stick, and if yours isn't very responsive, then you could very well throw out an attack when you're trying to parry, or slash at the wrong angle in Blade Mode. You might actually want to try keyboard and mouse, see if you can get used to that. People who use it say it's just as good if not better than controllers. Me, I'm too used to playing these third-person hack and slash games on controllers, so it's an odd transition for me. That said, the Blade Mode handles infinitely better with a mouse than an analog stick. That alone was almost enough to make me switch.

10.) But seriously, learn the parry system.
Originally posted by HereticJ:
I think what makes this so confusing is that it is basically the opposite of what most action games do - which is have you dodge out of the way. So say it's Dark Souls and an enemy swings at you. The swing indicates you need to move, so you hit the dodge button and push directionally away from the attack. Now for Revengeance: an enemy swings toward you. The swing (and often red crosshair light will blink) will indicate you need to press the light attack button as you push directionally toward the enemy.

From a design perspective, it's really quite interesting. Towards the enemy + Light Attack. Not away and a dedicated block button mapped to B or something. You're rushing into and attacking their attack. It's not a block at all, even if that's the "net" effect of the move. There's nothing defensive about it. It's essentially getting you into the mindset of "I am and must be perpetually on offense." Because you're a breakdancing cyborg ninja. You're an absolute badass and you should feel like it.

...anyway. Rambling, but this is the kind of nerdy ♥♥♥♥ that really gets me going.
Pimpollo Jan 12, 2015 @ 8:39pm 
Play on Normal. Activate the healthpacks to auto. If you get intimidated by Gekkos try running outta of the way and keep slashing while running. Remember that the normal soldiers can be cut up in blade mode without needing to hurt them. Zandatsu completely restores all HP, remain aggressive.
Kargor Jan 12, 2015 @ 11:28pm 
Originally posted by Zyrconia:
Yet I find this game near impossible. I think I literally have no idea what to do.

Welcome to the club :-)

Still, I'm playing on Easy like always, so I'm still progressing, somehow.

Am I supposed to parry every single hit or how the hell is this game designed to work?

Apparently. There are even bossfight-achievements for taking no damage -- outright impossible if you ask me. Blocking almost never works for me, except when I fought this Monsoon guy and just button-mashed the blocking into the direction that I expected him to come from; I did seem to score some blocks for this. But normal enemies, no way.

Still, it's kind of fun regardless. As for damage handling -- some enemies, especially the weak humanoid ones (not the small tripods) can give you a special move where you rip out their insides and use them to replenish health. The tripods seem to always drop health (great when fighting Mistral, as she keeps summoning these).
And you have 5 "lives" through the nanopaste pickups from chests, which are applied automatically. Takes a while to replenish these, but this is what carries me through the more difficult fights such as Monsoon or when dealing with multiple large robots.

PS: I know I could use stealth, but that's not the gameplay style I have chosen for my playthough.

How would that work? The first enemies you encounter in your "new body" have camouflage, but we don't.
Rusty Jan 12, 2015 @ 11:59pm 
I had to buy a brand-new controller for this game, because my left analog had the slightest deadzone upwards, making Zandatsu an infuriating nightmare. Funnily enough, it never bothered me in Dark Souls 1 or 2.

Just wait until you get to Monsoon. You'll be pulling your hair out if you don't learn to parry by then. Personally I just spammed the dodge-attack move like a tryhard whenever he'd do his rapid attack combo. Turned him into lunchmeat.

That's all I really have to contribute, seeing as Gandhi already said everything I wanted to say, and more. Just keep at it, when the combat finally clicks it's an incredibly rewarding character action game.
Miqs Jan 13, 2015 @ 9:33am 
In this game even your defense is an attack. Defensive Offense (I can never remember the name) move is the only move that has iframes (iirc the slide also had some but not really useful), so get that as soon as you can. Then it's either block or parry. Block is extremely forgiving with the wide window so you can just spam it and be safe forever.

Parrying will be your best friend once you learn it.
mak[PL] Jan 13, 2015 @ 7:17pm 
I don't find the combat that much of a problem. It's the ******* camera that's going bonkers every few seconds. Like it wasn't sure where the enemies are. Or the fight. Or walls. Or the game?
NyxCrab Jan 13, 2015 @ 7:17pm 
The game does a terrible job of explaining stuff to you. I'd recommend going through the game at least once with parry assist on, makes parrying easier until you get the hang of it, and then once you mastered that you just need to learn how to dodge well and use manual blade mode and you'll be good to go.
Originally posted by makPL:
I don't find the combat that much of a problem. It's the ******* camera that's going bonkers every few seconds. Like it wasn't sure where the enemies are. Or the fight. Or walls. Or the game?

Too true. Thankfully, there's a camera mod that (mostly) alleviates those problems. It has the added bonus of being easy to implement, too.

Simple Camera Mod (reduces "some camera restrictions"): http://z13.invisionfree.com/MetalGearRising_Mods/index.php?showtopic=3

Blade Wolf Camera Mod (mirrors the camera settings for Blade Wolf's DLC campaign): http://z13.invisionfree.com/MetalGearRising_Mods/index.php?showtopic=4
Rusty Jan 13, 2015 @ 7:41pm 
Yeah, the camera is by far the biggest flaw of the game. At least it can be modded.
mak[PL] Jan 13, 2015 @ 7:45pm 
Originally posted by gandhi the peacemaker:
Originally posted by makPL:
I don't find the combat that much of a problem. It's the ******* camera that's going bonkers every few seconds. Like it wasn't sure where the enemies are. Or the fight. Or walls. Or the game?

Too true. Thankfully, there's a camera mod that (mostly) alleviates those problems. It has the added bonus of being easy to implement, too.

Simple Camera Mod (reduces "some camera restrictions"): http://z13.invisionfree.com/MetalGearRising_Mods/index.php?showtopic=3

Blade Wolf Camera Mod (mirrors the camera settings for Blade Wolf's DLC campaign): http://z13.invisionfree.com/MetalGearRising_Mods/index.php?showtopic=4
Oh my god, thank you SO MUCH!
Gruhlum Jan 14, 2015 @ 3:48am 
Hey I had the same problem. You can parry almost every attack with Left Stick in the direction of the enemy and X. The important thing is that you press those buttons together, you can't parry while running. So wait until an enemy shines red then tap the LS+X in the direction you want to parry.
Zyrconia Jan 15, 2015 @ 11:09am 
Thanks for the help everybody! I practiced parrying and managed to get past that section. I played for 2 hours, got to the sewer level and... deleted it. And moved the game in its own category, never to bother me again.

I can't believe this is a game from Platinum Games, the ones behind arguably the best action fighter game ever: Bayonetta.

This was never fun and felt awkward all the way. Raiden never holds his ground and fights. He sprints around like a madman. Even without using the ninja run. His weapons barely do any damage, even after upgrade. Without parry you can't take down anything: no damage. Parry is very weird and uses movement towards enemy on a character who is very fast. I want to parry, not traverse half the map instead. If you see the red hint you might as well put down the controller and not do anything until the right parry timing. Fighting normal mobs is frustrating because you have no damage. Or you can chain blade mode on a huge group of enemies, but that is just a quick time effect, not fighting.

Speaking of large groups of enemies, what a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. The camera is crazy. You can't take 5 steps without it pointing the wrong way. Getting knocked down has a huge recovery time and the camera will invariably point away from the enemy that knocked you down. Enemies are stunlocky. Even normal dudes can stun luck you with a simple sword. There are dudes with rocket launchers. Two different enemy types that jump up and land on you. I had all three jumpy monkey dudes from the sewer jump on me at once. Then there are actual stuns and unplayable yellow attacks. There is no game I wish to waggle my left stick vigorously around. That's how I run my pads. And there are two mobs that ram you. You can almost never circle strafe that. You need to run away quite a bit before you can reliably dodge that.

I also do not like blade mode. Does no damage if you use it when you are not supposed to, like when a tanky enemy has full health and is almost an instakill otherwise. Just a gimmicky extra long quick time event.

The bosses were good though, but to easy. Even with my inexistent skill in this game I took them down first try. The second one did not damage me enough for me to use a health pack.

Sorry, this fighting engine does not only feel bad for me, it feels amateurish.
Eh. Shame you feel that way. Hope your next game nets you a better experience.
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Date Posted: Jan 12, 2015 @ 3:46pm
Posts: 37