(spoilers) the ending...

[EvathCebor]

...completely ruined the game for me.

I was in love with the game. I felt like I was playing so many great things through this very game. First a spiritual 3D version of Castlevania III with all the adventures and the encounters before the so expected Dungeon. Also an origin story, slowly understanding that I was playing both the first Belmont and the first Dracula. Then a mix between God of War, Prince of Persia 128 bits and Resident Evil 4 with this old grey and dangerous fantasmed Europe. So many exciting things inside one single yet coherent package. The interface was so classy, the map remembered me both old Castlevania / Ghouls n Ghosts games and the Twin Towers 128 bits adaptation, oh my God I was so hyped. The narrator at the beginning of every level was delicious to hear and read.

And then, the end happened. I will remain silent about the fact that Gabriel is Dracula. I think this is awesome. I will not talk either about the fact that he'll be in the future/our present in the next episode. Why not, okey. I will talk instead about the two last ♥♥♥♥♥♥ levels, while everything in this game was perfect and built with great taste until then. I will talk about the ridiculous revelations "I am Zobek (forgot his name) the third Lord of Shadow, hahaha, listen to my evil plan, hahaha, I'm turning circles around you while I'm explaining all my weird motivations hahaha, I'm such a thug.".

No.

Just no.

Zobek, Zorbek, Zobrek, anyway, Z - something - ek talked to himself (not to Gabriel, to himself, like he would do in a very private diary) about 45 times before this revelation, at the beginning of every level. He is CLEARLY a guy fighting and hating the evil creatures. He is clearly worried for Gabriel and sincerely hopes the Light will triomph over the Shadow. He is clearly hoping that Gabriel will to save the world (I'm not interpreting him here but quoting him). He is clearly NOT a lord of shadow. Ok, he has one or two "hidden stuff to do" to assure "the success of our quest" but nothing fits with any evil plans or thoughts. He's not a bad guy. He just isn't. And he is talking to himself for God sake, he does not need to play comedy. We are reading his mind, his thoughts. He is sincere with himself and he is not the Lord of Shadow. You paid a great actor, ok, that's not a reason to over-use it until you ruin his fabulous role. All his motivations are ridiculous but the simple fact he's the hidden bad guy, the third Lord of Shadow, is the most poorly written cliffhanger I saw in decades. Telefilms, girly movies adapted from teenage sagas and Direct-to-DVD included.

And then Satan. Because it was not ridiculous and over-complicated-and-impossible enough ? "I manipulated you from the beginning, I'm even more evil, ha ha ha !". Please ! Konami ! MercurySteam ! Kojima Productions ! Someone ! Help that game ! And the Dragon Ball Z-ish action scene after the boss fight ? Oh PLEASE ! I thought I was in front of a mature european game all along, and in the end the manga teenage lovers come back from the dead with something not worthing a fanfiction. Oh please ! God help me ! What happened to this marvelous game ! What happened to MercurySteam near the end of the game ? You all did a burnout resulting in a mental breakdown and an astonishing comeback to teenage ?!

And well, 15 minuts later Z***ek is still alive ? But I thought Satan killed him. And I thought that when we killed a Lord of Shadow, it was something definitive, so definitive that we also killed the "good angel" version of it, and that's precisely why it was terrible to kill them all three ? I thought it was one of the important thing in the game's universe ? The hell...

It was so easy, so obvious to make a beautiful story. You did 95% of the job. You just had to know when to end it. Gabriel becoming slowly a bad creature, becoming Dracula in the end (not trying to save the world once more, oh my god these DLCs...), killing Z***ek who is not strong enough to face him, the creature he "made" (by saving and helping him in his quest, placing all his hopes in a wrong bet), not strong enough anymore to correct his mistake. Everybody was wrong to help Gabriel, he's becoming the Dracula we all know. I mean a real BAD Dracula. Not this kind-hearted one. The end. Simple. Not fan fiction-ish. Heartbreaking. Logic. How could you miss that, seriously. What happened ?!!!

I will not talk about "the forgotten one" and "Laura" who became in the very end a sensible, friendly, scared vampire child everybody would love to adopt because she's such kind hearted and want to save the world too. And the resurrected Z***ek who seems to be much, much, much more (including good feelings, compassion) than I was told a Lord of Shadow could be in the very same game.

Please apologize my english. I know it must be very painful to read. I'm just very sad right now. I enjoyed so much this game. I hated so much this ending. It was everything this clever and marvelous game wasn't. How to ruin a fabulous 20 hours game in less than half an hour.

[Nanashi]

Originally posted by EvathCebor:

I will talk about the ridiculous revelations "I am Zobek (forgot his name) the third Lord of Shadow, hahaha, listen to my evil plan, hahaha, I'm turning circles around you while I'm explaining all my weird motivations hahaha, I'm such a thug.".

No.

Just no.

Zobek, Zorbek, Zobrek, anyway, Z - something - ek talked to himself (not to Gabriel, to himself, like he would do in a very private diary) about 45 times before this revelation, at the beginning of every level. He is CLEARLY a guy fighting and hating the evil creatures. He is clearly worried for Gabriel and sincerely hopes the Light will triomph over the Shadow. He is clearly hoping that Gabriel will to save the world (I'm not interpreting him here but quoting him). He is clearly NOT a lord of shadow.

You know, it could have been all part of the story telling to not reveal the bad guy early. Or he wasn't worried for Gabriel but worried Gabriel would fail the mission he was on for Zobek. Much worse was the fact that Zobek was just a puppet and Satan was the real culprit. Like... Was one twist not enough? Was it really necessary for the puppeteer to be a puppet himself?

I'm not satisfied with the end myself though. I was hoping for an explanation why Gabriel becomes Dracula like all the power he absorbed turned him or he took the place of the previous lords to maintain the balance in the world or anything really(no matter how lame it is it'd still be better than nothing) and maybe that's part of the DLC (only played the main story so far) but it's BS regardless. With the scenes after the credits it's just confusing as ♥♥♥♥. Zobek shouldn't be alive anymore. gabriel shouldn't be alive either and he sure as hell shouldn't be a "creature of darkness". At least not with all the information we have right at the end.

Well. Once I'm through the DLC's and got some of the easy achievements I'm going to play Mirrors of Fate and hope they explain anything in there... If not I might as well have skipped this ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game and just started with LoS2. At least you can control the camera there apparently. Like even after all this the story was still the second best thing the game had going for itself. The best thing being the soundtrack. Gameplay was just horrible in every aspect. The levels actually could have been interesting if they weren't so small and limited. Almost felt like Final Fantasy in that regard.

[EvathCebor]

Nope, unfortunately, it seems one twist was not enough. It's like if in the dev's spirit, any game NEEDS a twist (which I disaprove). It became so systematic including a twist is not a twist anymore. So they twisted the twist haha.

The DLC will give you more answers but if you feel like me, you may think it is very, very, very disappointing haha. I liked Mirror's of Fate though. It's a good compromise between the BTA aspect of Lords of Shadow and the older Metroivania entries in the Castlevania series I think. It tries to mix some elements of the Castlevania mythology in this new trilogy but it fails fixing what've been broken in my opinion.

[Nanashi]

Originally posted by EvathCebor:

Nope, unfortunately, it seems one twist was not enough. It's like if in the dev's spirit, any game NEEDS a twist (which I disaprove). It became so systematic including a twist is not a twist anymore. So they twisted the twist haha.

So true. There always has to be a twist somehow. I don't care that much about twists actually but these "double twists" are just ridiculous. If you need/want a twist in the story at least go with something that doesn't feel so forced. It could have been almost the same with Satan tricking him directly instead of Zobek. There was absolutely no need for the middle man...

And then, well, if there has to be a twist then so be it I guess but at least it doesn't feel as cheap as this did.

[Nanashi]

Originally posted by EvathCebor:

The DLC will give you more answers but if you feel like me, you may think it is very, very, very disappointing haha. I liked Mirror's of Fate though. It's a good compromise between the BTA aspect of Lords of Shadow and the older Metroivania entries in the Castlevania series I think. It tries to mix some elements of the Castlevania mythology in this new trilogy but it fails fixing what've been broken in my opinion.

well. After playing the first DLC... I guess it does explain things. It's still pretty bad that it is not part of the main game. Even if the main game explains how he reached the point at which he was willing to do that it's pretty pointless. Making a DLC mandatory to follow to story properly is just not ok.

edit: I have to add on my previous post and the gameplay... holy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥ I thought the werewolf guy was bad... the last mission is the worst ♥♥♥♥ I ever had to play... im at 20% health at best, have no magic left, and three more phases to play -.- Those are my stats since I started the DLC I think. There has been nothing to replenish life and getting back magic is a pain in the ass against the enemies that appear again in the DLC. probably is gonna take me hours >.<

[Shrek 2 On DVD]

I didn't mind the Zobek twist. Actually, if you play the game again, you can tell it's him pulling the strings all along. The loading screens are in his voice. If you read it like a "bad guy" you'll see the angle they were going for. I think as a reboot the game was a good way to start but Mirror Of Fate butchered the little saving grace you could give the reboot series and just threw in a bunch of stuff that didn't need to happen to make part 2 relevant.

[EvathCebor]

Haha so true the second DLC is really a pain in the butt. I didn't care to finish it, it was not polished enough and I thought the boss was very - very - stupid (both what he says and the whole DLC seemed very lazy at best). I disliked the ending of the first DLC (the Dracula's transformation is soooo disappointing, he's a good guy to the very end ! Laura's too, what the hell I thought she was so cruel she traped and killed thouthand of innocents ! What a pair of nice heroes you'd like to hang out with, ready to all the sacrifices to save the world, is he Dracula or Captain America ?!) yet I thought it was interesting to play, beautiful (I liked the environments), and they did put efforts in it - you team with Laura then control her which was interesting, the "shark" level was kind of nice, there is a few great game design ideas and puzzles. Finally the progression was overall interesting. I liked the "drink the monster's blood in order to empty your veins" part also. But the second DLC...oh my god. I think I stoped after the first fight against the endboss. It was lacking of polishing. The dialogs were awful - truly awful. Even the bosse's design is terrible. What happened. Is this really the same team who developed this DLC ?!

"I didn't mind the Zobek twist. Actually, if you play the game again, you can tell it's him pulling the strings all along."

I replayed some chapters after finishing the game and before posting on this forum to be sure and I disagree with your readings. I'd agree if Zobek was actually talking to Gabriel in the loading screens, but he isn't. And he clearly says he hates creatures of darkness and fight for the light. He fears Gabriel's mental health and he is really sorry for him (he's a Lord of Shadow, remember, the "evil part" of a corpse who stayed on earth, how the hell can he nourish such feelings ?!). Yes, he says he has some hidden objectives to do once or two times. But he is clearly LYING for most of what he says. As he is talking to himself in the loading screens, he is lying...to himself. And about the secrets he keeps, he his hidding things to...himself again. The loading screens would make sense if he was talking to Gabriel...but he is talking to himself ! He is spying Gabriel, not talking to him. He is keeping secrets to himself AND is clearly lying to himself ! That is very stupid I think. And not compatible with the ending twist. Like not at all. This is how I read things. :-(

Sorry again for my english

[EvathCebor]

I uninstalled the game so I can't search everything I want, but here are some quotes I found on Youtube.

"A storm is coming. Mankind faces ruin and despair. The world is changing. Yet hope remains in the heart of the people. We go about our daily lives never knowing the forces that can change our destinies forever, we are ignorant like sheep in the slaughter".

"What was this creature ?" -talking about Pan, who the hell he is playing ignorant with ?!-

"The stench of the hog fades into memory and land of great beauty lies before him, a paradise where nature lives in harmony with all living creatures"

"My instincs tell me he is filled with hope (..) Pheraphs he is the one, a warrior of pure heart who can deliver us from evil"

Remember he is a Lord of Shadow, an evil creature filled with vice only. And remember he is talking to himself...just...I'm sorry, I can't.

I remember many quotes he says how much he hates creatures of darkness, as he is fighting for the light. And how much he fears for Gabriel's mental health and feels empathy for him.

I'm sorry but this guy is not a Lord of Shadow to me. Whatever the end twist says.

[Nanashi]

Originally posted by Lunch Lady:

I didn't mind the Zobek twist. Actually, if you play the game again, you can tell it's him pulling the strings all along. The loading screens are in his voice. If you read it like a "bad guy" you'll see the angle they were going for. I think as a reboot the game was a good way to start but Mirror Of Fate butchered the little saving grace you could give the reboot series and just threw in a bunch of stuff that didn't need to happen to make part 2 relevant.

Zobek isn't pulling the strings though. At least not in the bigger picture. Although I agree that some of his lines become rather easy to read between the lines when you know about it.

[heavy-mouse]

Wow, so you are complaining that good guy turned out to be bad lied to you? "Oh no he isn't a bad guy because he clearly said that he is good!" - sorry, but this is not how betrayal works. It's not like this twist was just put in the very end, you know? All those nightmares Gabriel had? Zobek lied to us as much as he lied to Gabriel. Yeah sure, he COULD have told us everything while narrating, buuut... WE are playing the game, not Gabriel. And as I recall he was foreshadowing his true nature after all.

About his ressurection... well he IS death, so it seems logical that he can't... die? Count how many times you kill death and he returns in other Castlevania games.

Gabriel is not Dracula by the end of the main game. He is just a man who thinks that the god betrayed him. In the DLC he becomes vampire to survive in the demonic prison and THEN he absorbs the power of the forgotten one to become the powerful lord Dracula. Yeah, it is bad that they just did it in the DLC with no cutscenes but who knows why they decided to do so.

And Gabriel and Laura are not heroes in the DLC. They are anti-heroes. The ones that are usually bad, but, you know, if the forgotten one did escape his prison he would just end the world. Even they would die then with everyone else. It is even the plot of the next game - Zobek wants Gabriel's help precisely because the common enemy has returned, not because he suddenly became a good guy.

About Laura's sacrifice. Well, from LoS 2 you will know that being the only vampire in the castle and having no purpose in life really sucks. Sucks so much that Dracula wants to die actually. I think Laura was driven by the same emotions, besides what I told above of course.

On a side note - yeah, the last fight is difficult, but I don't know why are you guys hate it. It is a challenge like in the old games, befitting the powerful demon that forgotten one is (and after you learn his patterns he really isn't THAT hard). After all, Castlevania always had those moments of hardcore difficulty. Still remember the good old days when I have beaten all 3 forms of Dracula with Richter in Dracula X.

[Ash vs. Himself]

Go back and read Zobek's journals before each chapter again knowing the twist. It works. "I follow him into old forest watching him from afar. He is strong indeed. The one God comes to drive out the many but here, in this place, God's influence is thin and threadbare..."

"So, he has found one of Gandolfini's upgrades? This was unforseen, but should prove useful in the challenges to come. ... I wonder if you know what truly lies ahead for you Gabriel..."

And those are just a couple. It's actually really good writing. It allows you to put whatever you want into it.

[GRU-Vy]

The dlc explains how gabriel becomes dracula. If you dont like spoilers then stop reading now!

Laura the child vampire contacts gabriel and urges him to return to the castle as she needs his help. Basically because he defeated the lords of shadow an ancient demon known as the forgotten one will be escaping his prison beneathe the castle. The lords used power to imprison the forgotten one but since they are dead the prison is weak. Gabriel needs to go kill this demon otherwise if he escapes he will destroy the world. In order to go into realm where this demon is imprisoned laura offers gabriel her blood and says only a creature with darkness inside it may enter.

Now doing bad deeds isnt enough it needs to be something more. Laura compels gabriel to drink all her blood to replace his own otherwise her blood will poison him aswell as freeing her from her immortality (she dies) he also lost some of his humanity when taking her blood to become a vampire. Throughout the second dlc you fight the demon but gabriel hasnt turned yet. The forgotten one uses some of his energy to break the open seals that imprison him. During this time gabriel fights the demon.

When you fight the demon for the second time at the end of the fight the final seal is broken, the energy going back towards the severly injured forgotten one. Gabriel uses his boots and wings and beats the demon then absorbs the power of the forgotten one. With this immense dark power gabriels kills the forgotten one and crushes the combat cross in his hand. Now a creature of the night, who felt betrayed and had all those he cared about die infront of him. Gabriel turns his back on god and becomes dracula.

[DrNewcenstein]

Zobek's hope was not so much that Gabriel would "wipe out all evil", but defeat Satan, who was preparing to invade the mortal plane (as if he could somehow jumpstart the Apocalypse but that's a discussion for another forum).

While the Lords of Shadow are evil, they are subservient to Satan, and are not content to be servants (or at least don't want Satan to jump the gun and force God to rain down Final Judgement so soon, since they're quite enjoying their reign over their little bits of the landscape).

Zobek knows the only way to postphone The BanHammer is to vanquish Satan - which means to say "make him expend a whole lot of energy so he's actually too weak to carry out his mad scheme of "let's get to this lake of fire business already"."

However, to be surprised that Zobek turned out to be masquerading as a good guy is....surprising.
He's a LORD OF SHADOW. He has nothing but ulterior motives and self-serving schemes. He'll put on a mask of righteousness for his own nefarious deeds. That's kinda what they do - it's part of that whole "Shadow" thing. Misdirection, misinformation, manipulation, all that CIA stuff.