Polearms should have the most reach

[Locklave]

Title. It's nonsense that they top off at 28 reach when Planks are 30 and Fragment axe at 32.

The defining trait of polearms is in the hands of weapons that also do far more damage. Leveling dex is not a reason to use polearms, katanas do it better. Animal damage bonus is lame, polearms were a primary melee weapon of war IRL for a reason and certainly not for bonus animal damage...

These aren't polearms, they are swords with short blades and long handles. Give them a proper reach value and turn them into polearms.

[Ares]

Yeah, I love the animations for polearms, but am sad that they're really underwhelming as a weapon choice compared to everything else.

[Erei]

Originally posted by Ares:

Yeah, I love the animations for polearms, but am sad that they're really underwhelming as a weapon choice compared to everything else.

No argument. They are arguably the least useful weapon category of all. Even without considering the bonuses, they are plain weak.

Originally posted by Locklave:

. Animal damage bonus is lame, polearms were a primary melee weapon of war IRL for a reason and certainly not for bonus animal damage...

Well, I think it is to represent, albeit poorly, that polearm where a weapon of choice for hunting big animals. Mostly spears and pike. Primitive arrows are too weak to kill a bear for example (unless super lucky shot), you'd only make him mad. Spears where used for that.
Which is why they added the bonus, I guess. Considering the kind of animals we have in Kenshi, I'd take a polearm over a katana to hunt them to.

But I agree it's lame as a bonus. Only a handful of animals can be a threat when you can have polearm reliably (gutters and leviathan comes to mind). Compared to the robots bonus we have on the paladin's cross for example, considering that pretty much all the ruins are full of them, the choice is obvious.

[Locklave]

Thanks for the feedback guys :) I was getting worried no one else cared.

On the animal damage it occurs to me that other weapons do it better just like reach issue. Falling Sun vs. Beak things which can hit them for more damage then the boosted polearm alone lol, them being a major thread animal. Also Desert Sabre which covers everything else that's a threat again doing more damage base unmodified then the polearm with the bonus.

Polearms are in a depressing place.

The animation are indeed wonderful and have that sexy smooth flow to them.

[Sarkin]

personally i feel that Polearms are fine-ish i don't like the animations cause...thats not how a spear is used! , or a staff for that matter!

if they add in the ability to characters to learn an move in combat formations i much rather them have their more realistic combat styles of polearm fighting.

though maybe more in Feudal Spear Levy fashion with units forming battle lines of spear points an stabing together at approaching enemies. they need to be more stabby.

[Locklave]

Originally posted by Sarkin:

personally i feel that Polearms are fine-ish i don't like the animations cause...thats not how a spear is used! , or a staff for that matter!

if they add in the ability to characters to learn an move in combat formations i much rather them have their more realistic combat styles of polearm fighting.

though maybe more in Feudal Spear Levy fashion with units forming battle lines of spear points an stabing together at approaching enemies. they need to be more stabby.

Well they aren't really spears in the game, all spears are missing infact. These weapons are all halberd types, Slashing and Piercing rather then a spear which is all piercing. So for these weapons the animation is fine.

Even the Naginata IRL was up to 3 meters long with the blade, so unless the other weapons Plank/Fragment Ax and other magically long 2 handers are in that size range I'd say they aren't in fine-ish. There is no reason to use a polearm if other weapons are available, they just look nice. You can use them for fluff and pretend it's not just a crappy low damage Nodachi.

Formation fighting will never be a thing in this game, they can't even get basic pathfinding right. Just being realistic.

[Sarkin]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Originally posted by Sarkin:

personally i feel that Polearms are fine-ish i don't like the animations cause...thats not how a spear is used! , or a staff for that matter!

if they add in the ability to characters to learn an move in combat formations i much rather them have their more realistic combat styles of polearm fighting.

though maybe more in Feudal Spear Levy fashion with units forming battle lines of spear points an stabing together at approaching enemies. they need to be more stabby.

Well they aren't really spears in the game, all spears are missing infact. These weapons are all halberd types, Slashing and Piercing rather then a spear which is all piercing. So for these weapons the animation is fine.

Even the Naginata IRL was up to 3 meters long with the blade, so unless the other weapons Plank/Fragment Ax and other magically long 2 handers are in that size range I'd say they aren't in fine-ish. There is no reason to use a polearm if other weapons are available, they just look nice. You can use them for fluff and pretend it's not just a crappy low damage Nodachi.

Formation fighting will never be a thing in this game, they can't even get basic pathfinding right. Just being realistic.

a Staff isn't a halberd, neither is the officially labelled "polearm" weapon which is more along the lines of a chinese spear .

as far as range. pole arms have range yes. but there range also limits their movements making them considerably less useful in one on one combat against another trained combatant. especially one with experience against a pole arm. Polearms are only effective in group combat in one on one fights. they tend to not be quite as useful as modern media makes them out to be. primarily in that if someones trying to stab you with a spear, then you just side step it catch the hilt with your free hand , stab the holder an done! spears are meant to hold enemies at bay while other units deal the actual damage. in most spear centered combat casualties were rather low compared to other weapon types. predominately when it came to hellenic armies fighting each other.

[Locklave]

Originally posted by Sarkin:

a Staff isn't a halberd, neither is the officially labelled "polearm" weapon which is more along the lines of a chinese spear .

as far as range. pole arms have range yes. but there range also limits their movements making them considerably less useful in one on one combat against another trained combatant. especially one with experience against a pole arm. Polearms are only effective in group combat in one on one fights. they tend to not be quite as useful as modern media makes them out to be. primarily in that if someones trying to stab you with a spear, then you just side step it catch the hilt with your free hand , stab the holder an done! spears are meant to hold enemies at bay while other units deal the actual damage. in most spear centered combat casualties were rather low compared to other weapon types. predominately when it came to hellenic armies fighting each other.

So stabbing motions with a staff then? None of those weapons are spears, that is certain. Staff should be blunt weapon group.

Don't conflate Spears with all Polearms. Spears did not suck for 1v1 and only sucked in tight environments and compared to swords, halberds outclassed spears and swords in 1v1 in open spaces. Swords are a thing because they could be carried around in a city without a 3 meter long pole smacking everything around you. Not viable for personal defense in those condition.

And no you don't catch the hilt... Spears with hilts are a fantasy game/novel thing, why would you design a piercing weapon to have something to get stuck on clothing/armor or get grabbed on to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear

Grab that and get your fingers cut off as he pulls the spear back for another quick stab. And even saying sidestep it... Seriously, that is ridiculous garbage. That's like saying "just dodge the sword", which would be slower moving then a spear tip btw.

In 1v1 spears get used to slash not just stab. Polearms>Spear>Sword 1v1 and mass warfare.

[Sarkin]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Originally posted by Sarkin:

a Staff isn't a halberd, neither is the officially labelled "polearm" weapon which is more along the lines of a chinese spear .

as far as range. pole arms have range yes. but there range also limits their movements making them considerably less useful in one on one combat against another trained combatant. especially one with experience against a pole arm. Polearms are only effective in group combat in one on one fights. they tend to not be quite as useful as modern media makes them out to be. primarily in that if someones trying to stab you with a spear, then you just side step it catch the hilt with your free hand , stab the holder an done! spears are meant to hold enemies at bay while other units deal the actual damage. in most spear centered combat casualties were rather low compared to other weapon types. predominately when it came to hellenic armies fighting each other.

So stabbing motions with a staff then? None of those weapons are spears, that is certain. Staff should be blunt weapon group.

Don't conflate Spears with all Polearms. Spears did not suck for 1v1 and only sucked in tight environments and compared to swords, halberds outclassed spears and swords in 1v1 in open spaces. Swords are a thing because they could be carried around in a city without a 3 meter long pole smacking everything around you. Not viable for personal defense in those condition.

And no you don't catch the hilt... Spears with hilts are a fantasy game/novel thing, why would you design a piercing weapon to have something to get stuck on clothing/armor or get grabbed on to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear

Grab that and get your fingers cut off as he pulls the spear back for another quick stab. And even saying sidestep it... Seriously, that is ridiculous garbage. That's like saying "just dodge the sword", which would be slower moving then a spear tip btw.

In 1v1 spears get used to slash not just stab. Polearms>Spear>Sword 1v1 and mass warfare.

Martial Artists seem to disagree with you. so do, most of the instances of spears being usedi n history.

[Locklave]

Originally posted by Sarkin:

Martial Artists seem to disagree with you. so do, most of the instances of spears being usedi n history.

You don't even know what a real spear looks like talking about "grabbing the hilt", so you'll excuse me if I go with my own knowledge of history since I do infact know what these weapons looked like and how they functioned on the battlefield.

Martial artists... so you speak for martial artists yet un-named now? Why would I value their opinion anyways since they primarily deal in unarmed combat where this is about weapons vs weapon? These un-named martial artists whom you speak for.

[Sarkin]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Originally posted by Sarkin:

Martial Artists seem to disagree with you. so do, most of the instances of spears being usedi n history.

You don't even know what a real spear looks like talking about "grabbing the hilt", so you'll excuse me if I go with my own knowledge of history since I do infact know what these weapons looked like and how they functioned on the battlefield.

Martial artists... so you speak for martial artists yet un-named now? Why would I value their opinion anyways since they primarily deal in unarmed combat where this is about weapons vs weapon? These un-named martail artists whom you speak for.

"you don't even know what a real spear looks like" oh , getting personal eh.

and there are plenty of martial arts in the world who specialize in the use of spears. o.O you have the internet. you don't need me to 'name' anything for you. and grabbing the hilt of a spear is long, usually made of wood, or iron . both of which are extremely friction friendly, when you grab the hilt you don't have to worry about them 'pulling it back an cutting your hand because, once you grab the hilt making use of the friction from your grip , to hold on to the hilt .

and when you step aside since spears tend to be narrow in the shaft and blade, unless were talking like a crescent spear or serpent spear, or a halbrrd with an extra blade on the side . o.O

that leaves them completely open , spears behind their heads are smooth and blunt the only 'threat' is the tip, of the spear. especially if you're wearing armour even if you try to adjust the spear to 'swing' at the person after they stepped to the side, an then move closer in there won't be enough momentum to do any damage, at best you might give them a bruise.

[Locklave]

Originally posted by Sarkin:

"you don't even know what a real spear looks like" oh , getting personal eh.

You don't. It's not personal, it a fact. You are decribing combat and don't know the details of the things of which you are speaking. So in short just making stuff up with no real knowledge.

You are overpowering a person with a 1 hand against his 2 hands after "sidesteping" which would impact your balance and footing. Stop talking about things you don't understand. Stop making up junk.

Also you don't know what a spear head looks like. The tip most certainly is not the "the only threat" the sides of the head spreading to either side are sharpened blades just like a sword blade, it's not a damn Javelin. Just stop.

Go make your own add spears thread where you can post this garbage.

[Hatsune Neko Gaming]

both of you knock it off.
no arguing in the forums.

[Sarkin]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Originally posted by Sarkin:

"you don't even know what a real spear looks like" oh , getting personal eh.

You don't. It's not personal, it a fact. You are decribing combat and don't know the details of the things of which you are speaking. So in short just making stuff up with no real knowledge.

You are overpowering a person with a 1 hand against his 2 hand after "sidesteping" which would impact your balance and footing. Stop talking about things you don't understand. Stop making up junk.

Also you don't know what a spear head looks like. The tip most certainly is not the "the only threat" the sides of the head spreading to either side are sharpened blades just like a sword blade, it's not a damn Javelin. Just stop.

Go make your own add spears thread where you can post this garbage.

you should check out your own wiki link , there are plenty of images of 'spears' none of which have the 'little sharpened spikes' on the edges.

are made of wood, and your getting upset at being wrong doesn't look good . when theres an entire internet that shows you, that you're wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAYy5OVvwZA

thats not side stepping but close enough its easy to side step a spear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJcTD5qIZJ4

here is yet another.

[Sarkin]

Originally posted by HaTsUnE_NeKo:

both of you knock it off.
no arguing in the forums.

argueing? i thought the entire point of a forum was a debate? and to converse about different points of view.

[➕⁺+₊ ⁺]

Debates on the topic of determining who has a longer/better spear is one of the main reasons forums were created in the first place >:D Please continue :3