Actual Numbers on the Fog Men

[tikiman572]

While I know the Fog Men exist the way they do for gameplay reasons, shouldn't it be that because they don't have a Queen and thus can not replenish their numbers that, realistically in the Kenshi universe, the dangers of the Fog Islands are surmountable? Like I understand there are a TON of Fog Men. But because they can't reproduce, it's only a matter of time with constant Fog Men purging from travelers and the guards of Mongrel that they should eventually become extinct? Or is there an actual means for them to reproduce without a Queen, though the Hiver that is made as a result will turn into yet another Fog Man?

I'm genuinely curious. Thanks in advance.

[Shidan]

While we can't be 100% sure exactly what Fogmen are or how they come about, we know that normal hivers can be converted into Fogmen given the right conditions. This is behavior seen in the game through overrides that trigger after the loss of their queen.

Given the Fog Island's proximity to the Western Hive, I've always operated on the assumption that a number of their population end up becoming Fogmen over time. Such as sometimes getting lost and separated from the hive, and turning into Fogmen. This would potentially sustain the Fogmen population, providing them a source of new drones.

It is possible that they lorewise come from the death of a 3rd hive, and these are just the remnants. But that seems off to me. As they would have no method of producing more drones, and it doesn't explain how some Fogmen got past the Western Hive and to the Tower of Fog. While drones losing connection to the queen in some way could easily explain that and give them a source of drone.

We'll probably never know until K2 though. As there is supposed to be more hiver lore in that game.

[tikiman572]

I have heard that the makers of Kenshi were thinking of re-making the game with a superior engine after Kenshi 2. Perhaps if that plan goes through, they could touch up on that thing or, hell, make it a full-blown world event. Like after killing so many Fog Men AND eliminating the Fog King, Fog Men population dwindles down to next to nothing (or just plain nothing).

Thanks for the reply, though. It gave me a bit more insight on the subject.

[Dynamiez]

There is no Fog king 🙄 a mod.... again

[tikiman572]

Ah, whoops. My apologies on that front.

[Ironkeg]

I think the Fogmen are made when the Hivers that get sent out of the hives react badly to the withdrawal of the hormones from the queen. They dont develop a sense of self and go insane in the process. Or maybe its a genetic degradation disease that affects the slightly more defective western hivers. Their queen is a deranged mess compared the southern one.

[Wanted111who]

I read somewhere that fogmen was created due to harmful fog. It can turn human exposed to the fog into shrieking bandits and lost their ability to talk. Cat lon know something about it

[UncleDoctor]

There's several prevailing theories. In a nutshell;

1. Hivers that stay away from the queen or their hive for too long don't get essential pheromones and turn into Fogmen. Iffy since there are multiple colonies on the continent that only have workers, warriors and princes present that are self-sustaining.

2. Something About the fog present in the fog islands/obedience causes neurological changes to the western Hivers that stay around it too long, turning them into Fogmen. This would make sense considering that only the western Hivers seem to have a problem with members of their species becoming fogmen, while southern Hivers do not.

3. Fogmen may be an entirely separate species of Hiver altogether, like western and southern Hivers. The sheer numbers of individual Fogmen present in the islands would suggest a reproduction rate so high that only the presence of a queen could sustain such a numerous population. This theory isn't too sound either, as the difference between western and southern Hivers can be attributed to distance from each other, while the same can't be said for wstern Hivers and the Fogmen. The western hives and fog islands are right next to one another. Also, even though it's stated by multiple characters in the game, there doesn't seem to be hard evidence of western Hivers losing their sentience and turning blue.

[Shidan]

Originally posted by UncleDoctor:

2. Something About the fog present in the fog islands/obedience causes neurological changes to the western Hivers that stay around it too long, turning them into Fogmen. This would make sense considering that only the western Hivers seem to have a problem with members of their species becoming fogmen, while southern Hivers do not.

It's important to note that the fog can't be the sole cause of fogmen. It might be able to trigger it, but that state is capable of happening without the fog itself. As we can see with the southern hive when their queen dies, a huge amount of the hive turns into fogmen.


The theory I've heard that I liked the best is that they are the result of suddenly losing connection to the queen. While ronins are the result of being more slowly weened off the pheromones. Perhaps the fog acts as some kind of inhibitor to the pheromones, so that hivers that either enter the fog or are taken in may easily convert. But explains why we don't find fogmen all over the world, and none near the southern hive. And yet also allows for the explanation why the southern hive do convert after the queen is slain.

Alternatively it's possible there was simply once another hive, and that fogmen are only caused from losing their queen. Doesn't explain the numbers, but otherwise it works fine.

[tikiman572]

If that's the case, one must wonder what is causing the fog itself. Technological runoff perhaps from the First or Second Empire? I'd presume excavations in the area would uncover some evidence though they'd be HILARIOUSLY dangerous. I mean, given the sheer number of Fogmen around, it's safe to say that what we see on the surface is just a drop in the ocean for what they may have lurking under the surface.

[Surimi]

Hivers call the Fogmen the "deadhive", which I think supports the theory that they're the remnants of a hive that lost its queen and whose members degenerated into the zombified cannibals they are now. Although their entire population can't really be represented due to the limitations of the game, hives seems to be about the size of large human nations (which also effectively have infinite manpower). A hive dying could potentially leave behind huge, huge numbers of hivers, so even if they didn't reproduce there could be so many that they just never got depleted.

The problem is that the foglands seem to have been the way they are for some time, and we don't know how long hivers live. Unless the fogmen are literally zombies (which is possible, there's some dialogue about them being controlled by parasites) it seems pretty unlikely they would have survived as long as they seem to have.

[Shidan]

Originally posted by Deep Hurting:

The problem is that the foglands seem to have been the way they are for some time, and we don't know how long hivers live.

No exact estimates, but it's less than a human. I actually asked the main writer this once, and that's what she told me.

It does seem like it would be odd for them to be purely remnants. They've been there for decades at least according to the journals in Mongrel. Unless they have a living queen I don't see them lasting that long, certainly not in such a violent life style.

Which is why my guess goes towards the western hivers being converted. I don't think it's a coincidence they are next door to the fogmen. If they were meant to be a completely separate hive, I feel like they would have been placed farther away like the southern hive were.

You know, wouldn't it be ironic if the lanterns of radiance actually do protect the hivers from the effects of the fog? Something about it interacting with the pheromones, keeping them from turning. The hivers they would see it as invaluable, to the rest of the world it's useless and seen as a scam. xD

[lizardmang]

Originally posted by Shidan:

You know, wouldn't it be ironic if the lanterns of radiance actually do protect the hivers from the effects of the fog? Something about it interacting with the pheromones, keeping them from turning. The hivers they would see it as invaluable, to the rest of the world it's useless and seen as a scam. xD

That's an interesting theory. I always wondered what the deal was with the lanterns of radiance because realistically, light just diffracts in fog. This would only further limit one's visibility while also lighting one up like a Christmas tree for the fogmen to find.

My personal theory has been that the hivers know this and are simply trying to get others killed by the fogmen to further their hive's position in the world while also making a quick buck, but this assumes fog is treated realistically in Kenshi and the hivers understand how light interacts with it.

[VayneVerso]

If it's the fog, then why hasn't Beep (or other Hivers living in Mongrel) been affected?

[Shidan]

If the condition is caused by inhibiting the effects of the pheromones, then they would be unaffected because they are no longer under their effects. Ronin have broken free already after all.

[tikiman572]

Given Beep's background as having been thrown out of the Western Hive by the Queen for being "defective" it's safe to say that if the fog inhibits the effects of the pheromones, Beep wouldn't be affected because he was never dosed by any pheromones in the first place. The Queen took one look at him and was like, "Nah, mate, you're not cut out for us here."