no respect for blunt weapons

[VayneVerso]

It seems like there isn't a lot of love for blunt weapons (barring fists) in this game. Is that just my imagination? I haven't really used them much, myself, after ditching the club with which the game started me. Is the problem just that you can't hack off limbs with them? Because I'm going to be honest and say that I don't really see too many hacked off limbs, anyway.

Edit: Actually, in looking at them, it does seem like the bonuses on blunt weapons are unspectacular. The jittes have always interested me, though, but they're difficult to find or something.

[bunny de fluff]

They swing the slowest.

[elvendualwielder]

Swing slowest, don't bleed (pass out from blood loss), can't remove limbs (for quickly ending fights), low to no armor pierce (so bad against late game enemies), etc.

[Shidan]

I mean, they're not as bad as some make out.

Swing speed difference is very minor, if you've got the required strength. They can remove limbs just as well as any other weapons as far as I know (no clue where this idea comes from). And while they don't get armour pierce, blunt damage is not resisted anywhere near as much as cut, so more of their damage tends to get through the armour.

I think their main problem is that their stats are unimpressive, and their high strength requirements. They're not bad weapons per say, but unless you're trying to keep an enemy alive, there is usually a better option that happens to not be a blunt weapon.

[VayneVerso]

Originally posted by Shidan:

I mean, they're not as bad as some make out.

Swing speed difference is very minor, if you've got the required strength. They can remove limbs just as well as any other weapons as far as I know (no clue where this idea comes from). And while they don't get armour pierce, blunt damage is not resisted anywhere near as much as cut, so more of their damage tends to get through the armour.

I think their main problem is that their stats are unimpressive, and their high strength requirements. They're not bad weapons per say, but unless you're trying to keep an enemy alive, there is usually a better option that happens to not be a blunt weapon.

Ah, okay. The thing about removing limbs was probably just my mistake. I thought I had read that.

I was wondering about the damage, though, because I thought a lot of the armor in this game was more concerned with mitigating cutting damage, so it seemed like with blunt weapons, more of the damage would actually get through to the body. Also, I was under the impression that swing speed was largely just a matter of characters having the required strength to wield a weapon (40x the blunt damage). So something like a midrange heavy jitte that does .65 blunt damage would require 26 strength to wield effectively. Pretty high, I guess, but not ridiculous.

[Shidan]

I've heard the no removing limbs from countless sources, but I've never seen an indication of it being a thing in-game.

The damage definitely depends on armour. Lighter armoured enemies will resisted blunt damage pretty well, at the cost of cut damage resistance. Most big threats use heavy armour though, which isn't great at resisting blunt.

And yeah, the swing speed is mostly dependent on that strength requirement. When it comes to weapons they are almost all the same (slight differences between them based on animations used). Most people get the swing speed idea from trying to use a blunt or heavy weapon without meeting the requirement.

[Rabid Baboon]

people get the "blunt can't cut off limbs" thing from a loading screen tip.

"If a limb is hit with a sharp weapon and it has less than -100 health then it will be severed. This is a permanent loss, you will have to find a robotic replacement."

Might have to change that.

[Shidan]

I'll have to run some tests on that. It might very well be a mechanic that it needs to be cut damage that hits the limb. Thing is, all weapons deal at least a little cut damage in vanilla, so they would all still sever limbs in that scenario.

[Rabid Baboon]

both normal jittes and heavy jittes don't deal any cutting damage at all. Still cut off a dude's arm with one. Forgot if I was playing on frequent or rare dismemberment tho.

[Shidan]

No, they still do cut damage. The game has a minimum cut damage mechanic. Even a weapon with 0 cut damage listed will still always do something.

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

I think on normal limb loss settings limbs get severed when they reach -100 (or whatever the max is for the character) regardless.

Example, an arm or leg will pop off on it's own from an untreated wound that degenerates to -100 even without taking a hit.

[VayneVerso]

Originally posted by =яενєηąŋŧ=:

Example, an arm or leg will pop off on it's own from an untreated wound that degenerates to -100 even without taking a hit.

That's grotesque, but sort of funny.

[Wanted111who]

i can confirmed that heavy jitte did knock off enemies limb.
I tested Heavy Jitte in combat, at average 70 stats, it is useless and very slow and even blocking is also slow, enemies land the attack before character can block it.
but at average stats of around 90, it is powerful weapon. the attack speed is fast, blocking is fast and best part is, it can one hit ko rebel farmer with average stats around 30-40 giving damage over 100+ in single bad hit. and against heavy armored UC samurai, it dealt 30-60 damage. UC Samurai stats is around 50-60 after armor penalty and I'm using harder enemies mod which gives samurai high quality armor, not shoddy grades as in vanilla.

With 5x attack slot, i tested the character 1 vs 5 Samurai, manage to take down 3 of them before fleeing because samurai got reinforcement, when i withdrew from the battle, the worst damage my character got is to its chest, left around 30+ HP, I am sure if i do not flee from the battle and there is no UC reinforcement, the character can take down the remaining 2 UC samurai.

My character is equip with masterclass Samurai plate, Samurai leg plates, blackend chainmail, samurai helmet, samurai boots which give around 10 penalties on attack but give defend bonus for using Heavy Jitte, defend stats is way over 100. it is a beast of a tanker took many hit and block much more hit as well.

The baseball bat attack animation is the strongest move of heavy Jitte giving AOE attack with same damage output 30-60 damage.

And yes, heavy Jitte can kill as long as the enemies is low and the attack from heavy jitte is critical with over 100+ damage, i personally saw rebel farmer got killed with a bad hit to the head

In my opinion, at 90s stats i'll vouch that heavy jitte > naginata > axe > nodaichi > katana.
I didn't use any other weapon on 90s character besides the 5, so i can't compare with others and they aren't in my opinion list.

Have to specially mention naginata is a very good weapon for group vs group, yes damage output is low, but it has medium range, fast attack and most importantly it stunned enemies + tend to focus on damaging chest and stomach area unlike other weapon where the damage isn't concentrated and will damage either head, legs, hands, chest, or stomach randomly and heavy jitte is one of those weapon that don't give concentrated damage but made up for it coz it hits hard and stunned the enemies

Sharing some SS

1 V group of manhunter
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1752430973940537458/932175387D97186F238216940AE4DAC5892D1EA2/

Enemies took 96 damage to chest, almost kill it
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1752430973940539840/6E1D28E1E94333AD66AF54AB05FA1647B629E34C/


Enemies lost right leg
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1752430973940534048/4E4B00BBB749AABFC4FA516C12B0D161F7BC5C37/

Character going down, got hit at stomach
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1752430973940532834/88B9332466E2A85DD66DF6DFCA6ED7EB8C148083/

[VayneVerso]

Very useful information, Wanted. Thanks for sharing.

Can I ask a related question? Is it remotely practical to start training up a secondary weapon class? I mean, all of my characters have their primary weapons on which I really want them to focus, and they all have pertinent attack skills (i.e., melee, crossbow) around 30-40. What if I just wanted to to run around with jittes for a while knocking out bandits. If I go off and fight equally skilled enemies using a weapon with which I have no proficiency, I'm going to get my butt kicked, right? But if I fight weak enemies, I probably don't gain much skill?

[Shidan]

The weapon skills actually don't scale exp rates based on your enemies. Smacking a river raptor gives the same exp as smacking Tinfist, no matter your level. More info on said mechanics here: https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/Stronger_Opponent_Logic

You also probably wouldn't get your butt kicked outright. Your chance to hit, combat speed, and a good portion of your damage would still be preserved, as they come from skills other than the weapon itself.

[Wanted111who]

Originally posted by TheWatcherUatu:

Very useful information, Wanted. Thanks for sharing.

Can I ask a related question? Is it remotely practical to start training up a secondary weapon class? I mean, all of my characters have their primary weapons on which I really want them to focus, and they all have pertinent attack skills (i.e., melee, crossbow) around 30-40. What if I just wanted to to run around with jittes for a while knocking out bandits. If I go off and fight equally skilled enemies using a weapon with which I have no proficiency, I'm going to get my butt kicked, right? But if I fight weak enemies, I probably don't gain much skill?

Yes, I think it is a good idea to start practicing few secondary or even tertiary weapon of choice.

Personally i started with hacker then switch to falling sun on my first playthrough, then on my second new game, i try Naginata/Nodaichi and since then i favor Naginata > falling sun. The character in SS above started using Nodaichi / katana before switching to heavy Jitte and if i didn't switch the weapon around, i wouldn't have discovered my favorite Naginata and Heavy Jitte + the game is going to stalled for me if i keep using falling sun and watching same animation. At least it bring something fresh to my experience. Hope it does to you too and you able to find your favorites weapon :)

Per Shidan, weapon proficiencies can be train by fighting weaker enemies. I'll recommend to do 1 V groups of weaker enemies and prepare to flee if your character is almost going down or have your group nearby ready to jump in the fight. It is ok to have your butt kicked around, I had my ass handed to me many times and even in my 70s i got my ass kicked by group of HN patrols (after i downloaded the stronger enemies mod) that's how i got my character to the 90s, and even now i still got my ass kicked sometimes.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937691170

I'll really recommend to open your base gate and let the raid group or wander patrol group to come in your base and have a fight in your base. This is a very good passive way to train up your back up squad while you are travelling around the map with your main combat group. It is ok to have some or even many character get knocked down, after few raids and fight, your back up squad will be able to stand up on their own with the raider group and for me personally, I find it is more enjoyable to play it this way rather than locking the gate and turretting raider group behind locked gate. This is after all the game that what don't kill you will make you stronger.

A tips if you decided to open your base gate, set a character to loot animals, then build a few meat and also animals skin storage. You will get free passive meat and skin income. I set up my base in dessert and rebel farmer will wander in my base with their bone dog, I got my passive meat and skin this way and i didn't do anything, i just let the game run and do my own stuff, after few weeks in game time, i got storage full of animals skin. the drawback is i got many spoil meat on the character that i designated to auto loot animals, will really recommend you use Hiver to auto loot animals, well if you don't have OCD, this issue won't bother you anyway :)