Dodge Bad or not working ?

[Oxydama]

Context :

So i grinded my solo to 96 dodge, with dustcoat +10% with an effective dodge at 106

I'm fighting against 65/70/80 attack guys (scrapyard skeletons)

From a calculator made by Terminarch[docs.google.com] i should have a 100% dodge success even on the 80 attack one

spoiler : no
I get hit even by the 70, even when i'm looking at the one attacking.

Why ?

I feel like, with 106 melee defence i could take over the world

But with dodge at 106, i can't hold my own against half decent troops for more then 20 sec (literally)

And of course if i get hit once (i have the 3 attack slot mod) i get 1 burst of damage, with no armor, which is likely to cut my dodge in half

Whereas melee def, i can be barely standing, half dead, bleeding all over the place and still have an incredible defence.

So what does dodge have and melee def doesn't do it better ?

1v1 ?

My point : dodge is bad compared to melee def

Edit : i tried with block enabled, so 126 dodge, the little spider with 65 attack hit me on his first try, i survived 10 sec

2nd edit : i tried without any equipment bonuses, so 96 dodge, and still got the same result, didn't change anything

[Jallad]

You have a mod that lets you go over 100 skills? I've read somewhere that many skills have trouble handling anything over 100 and loops back around to like 0.

[Hatsune Neko Gaming]

even if you had 100, there would still be a chance you would be hit.
why?
because it's impossible to dodge or block everything.
eventually you will be hit. just a matter of time.

and yes, skills above 100 can bug out reverting back to lower number. so a dodge of 126 means you have a dodge of 26

[Oxydama]

Originally posted by HaTsUnE_NeKo:

even if you had 100, there would still be a chance you would be hit.
why?
because it's impossible to dodge or block everything.
eventually you will be hit. just a matter of time.

and yes, skills above 100 can bug out reverting back to lower number. so a dodge of 126 means you have a dodge of 26

Not my point, i'm just saying i'm getting hit a lot, way more then if i had the same melee def

Originally posted by cTc:

You have a mod that lets you go over 100 skills? I've read somewhere that many skills have trouble handling anything over 100 and loops back around to like 0.

Originally posted by HaTsUnE_NeKo:

and yes, skills above 100 can bug out reverting back to lower number. so a dodge of 126 means you have a dodge of 26

I have a 96 dodge skill

For stealth yes, but equipment skill bonus doesn't appear if you have 100 stealth (which i have)

But for dodge or melee def, skill bonuses appears and i'm pretty sure it work, if not than you wouldn't be able to use the block "defensive combat mode" (which give +20 dodge or melee def) after you have 81 melee def or dodge, and i'm sure if it was the case i would have heard of it

Same for MA simply cause Tinfist have about 120 with equipment boost and he his doing insane amount of damage

And i just tried without any equipment bonuses, so 96 dodge, and still got the same result, didn't change anything

[Hobo Misanthropus]

I don't know if this is how Kenshi works, but Traditionally, games that use RNG impose "hard Caps" or "Soft Caps" of such mathematical weight that 100%'s are impossible.

Hard Cap would mean that at a certain point, you gain no more Dodge, period. A soft cap would mean there's a mathematical break point where the effort to return on your dodge investment is exponentially worse. IE, at skill 0-10, each point of dodge gives you 1-5%, 11-20 gives you 0.1%-0.5%, etc, up to the point where wh en you're at 99 skill, your next point of dodge might only give you 0.0001% effective dodge rate.

Dodge is also greatly negatively impacted by encumbrance, I suspect ANY backpack also plays a big role in killing MA effectiveness. I haven't tested it thoroughly, but my Martial Arts guy gets his ass handed to him if his backpack is on (Small thieves) even if his inventory is classed as "Weightless", but I've hardly isolated every variable.

I also seem to observe that Martial Artists are best in 1v1, against Humanoid enemies. Against Animals they get annihilated fast. Especially groups of animals. Any more than 3, and my MA guy gets stuck in a chain of evades until one hit gets through and then it's a chain of nonstop hits until down he goes. I've observed this against ENEMY martial arts users too. Never fight them one on one lol.

[Oxydama]

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

I don't know if this is how Kenshi works, but Traditionally, games that use RNG impose "hard Caps" or "Soft Caps" of such mathematical weight that 100%'s are impossible.

Hard Cap would mean that at a certain point, you gain no more Dodge, period. A soft cap would mean there's a mathematical break point where the effort to return on your dodge investment is exponentially worse. IE, at skill 0-10, each point of dodge gives you 1-5%, 11-20 gives you 0.1%-0.5%, etc, up to the point where wh en you're at 99 skill, your next point of dodge might only give you 0.0001% effective dodge rate.

Yeah thats what i assumed, i was pointing the fact with a vastly superior defence, i should get hit rarely, but my point is : i'm getting hit a lot, way more then if i had the same melee def

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by Oxydama:

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

I don't know if this is how Kenshi works, but Traditionally, games that use RNG impose "hard Caps" or "Soft Caps" of such mathematical weight that 100%'s are impossible.

Hard Cap would mean that at a certain point, you gain no more Dodge, period. A soft cap would mean there's a mathematical break point where the effort to return on your dodge investment is exponentially worse. IE, at skill 0-10, each point of dodge gives you 1-5%, 11-20 gives you 0.1%-0.5%, etc, up to the point where wh en you're at 99 skill, your next point of dodge might only give you 0.0001% effective dodge rate.

Yeah thats what i assumed, i was pointing the fact with a vastly superior defence, i should get hit rarely, but my point is : i'm getting hit a lot, way more then if i had the same melee def

Without seeing it in live combat, I can't make the judge. Is he fighting 1v1 or 1v3 or something? Because if you get hit once and you got more than 1 dude on you, the others get follow-up hits while you're recoiling. Since the game isn't truly RNG based, the "Dodge" skill doesn't mean much if the enemy is positioned in such a way that any direction you "Dodge" lands you straight into another strike. IE: Don't get surrounded. From my experience with the game, which is middling at best I'll admit. MA users are best at "Holding" high threat enemies 1v1, they can solo bosses even at moderately high levels, but even against a swarm of something as low-energy as swamp raptors, they get killed. In which case, a Heavily armored Heavy Weapon user is what fares much better there. Often able to cleave an entire squad down in one swing.

I guess the ultimate setup would be 1MA user, 1Fully Armored Heavy Weapon user, and one Medic/Archer with something like Eagle's Cross. Heavy Weapon user soaks all the weak guy's pitiful hits and cuts them down, MA user holds and beats the living ♥♥♥♥ out of the high rank enemy, while your Sniper/medic takes blasts well out of harm's way.

[Oxydama]

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

Without seeing it in live combat, I can't make the judge. Is he fighting 1v1 or 1v3 or something? Because if you get hit once and you got more than 1 dude on you, the others get follow-up hits while you're recoiling. Since the game isn't truly RNG based, the "Dodge" skill doesn't mean much if the enemy is positioned in such a way that any direction you "Dodge" lands you straight into another strike. IE: Don't get surrounded. From my experience with the game, which is middling at best I'll admit. MA users are best at "Holding" high threat enemies 1v1, they can solo bosses even at moderately high levels, but even against a swarm of something as low-energy as swamp raptors, they get killed. In which case, a Heavily armored Heavy Weapon user is what fares much better there. Often able to cleave an entire squad down in one swing.

Yes 1vs15, i totally agree with you, dodge is really bad against multiple opponents
And is still worse than melee def in 1v1, because i you take to much damage on the legs, you lose a lot of dodge

And what frustrate me about it, is that you can't make it better in FCS, making dodges faster is not really working when i tested it :(

[Hobo Misanthropus]

To be honest, getting your Martial Artists legs chopped up, and replacing them with Robot legs is a universal improvement. I think Drifter's Plated Legs are good leg protection with minimal/no MA penalty, but I'll have to double check.