After kenshi 2 is done will there be any hope for a kenshi 1 to unreal port?

[zeakz]

i understant most people want kenshi 2 but i really want a nice fancy looking kenshi 1

[Gerustroncio]

crossmr původně napsal:

bunny de fluff původně napsal:

I used to think like that once, my logic was that a movie director would not ask his audience what they like to see or a song writer ask what people like to hear, they just make it as a piece of art, they dont do such market research, it wouldn't work anyway listening to opinions. But game making is quite different. It is actually good to ask the audience opinions. Making game is not strictly a kind of art. It has mechanical aspects.

It's got nothing to do with being art. It's got to do with the average person not understanding game development, so asking their opinion while poisoning the well by characterizing working on Kenshi 1 first as "introducing significant delay" means they were fishing for a specific response. I'm actually an Unreal developer working here in South Korea, so I know the benefit of getting your feet wet by porting the first one before jumping into the second. The second is a complete unknown, the first has the benefit of a lot of it being laid out and done, so you know exactly what you're trying to emulate.

They didn't "poison the well"... they just spoke the truth; I agree, you don't need game development experience to know that porting an entire game from a custom ogre engine to UE4 would be a nightmare, and hence, delay the sequel....

I have game development experience, and I voted for letting Kenshi 1 as is for now at least, because I already have over 300 hours in it, which means it works wouldn't you say? it also means I already played my fill of it, and would rather they dedicated their time for something new than spending a couple of years porting an old game just for eye candy and a couple more frames per second...

I mean that's just common sense, perhaps you lack some of it... even though you might have game development experience, or so you claim...

And I don't think they need to port Kenshi 1 just to get some experience, whatever experience they need they'll get from developing Kenshi 2.

They made a custom engine using the Ogre framework dude... and UE is made to be as easy to use as possible, it's for quick turnover, I believe they have it figured..

[Legion]

CommandDork původně napsal:

Dont know the answer to your question but I agree. I'd rather Kenshi 1 be improved - its pretty horrible looking and prone to crashes.

Everyone wants a Kenshi 2 but people forget how things ALWAYS change in sequels: Good elements that made the original awesome get cut or reworked for the worse and new dumb things get added by devs that, all of a sudden, go blind/dumb. Mass Effect 2 comes to mind. Add State of Decay 2 to that list.

At least with Kenshi 1, we know what we're getting and we already like what it is. It just needs polish and streamlining. I don't personally recommend it to friends because of how buggy and ugly the thing is.

Anyway Kenshi 1 upgrade all the way. I doubt a Kenshi 1 port to Unreal will happen after Kenshi 2 is released for what it's worth. There wont be much profit in revisiting the original by then.

That's precisely why I DO recommend the game. Do you realize how hilarious things get to break the tedium? Watching guys you put down ascend into the heavens?

That aside, it's pretty asinine that people still hold the mindset of graphics > gameplay. It's not the prettiest, sure, but it gets the job done, and you know what's going on.

We already have Kenshi 1. Making it too good, especially with all it holds, won't be good for a lot of people with weaker PCs. I'd rather see how they can improve what's here with Kenshi 2, because let's face it: there's a lot of room for improvements that mods shouldn't have to solve.

[zeakz]

Nomadic původně napsal:

CommandDork původně napsal:

Dont know the answer to your question but I agree. I'd rather Kenshi 1 be improved - its pretty horrible looking and prone to crashes.

Everyone wants a Kenshi 2 but people forget how things ALWAYS change in sequels: Good elements that made the original awesome get cut or reworked for the worse and new dumb things get added by devs that, all of a sudden, go blind/dumb. Mass Effect 2 comes to mind. Add State of Decay 2 to that list.

At least with Kenshi 1, we know what we're getting and we already like what it is. It just needs polish and streamlining. I don't personally recommend it to friends because of how buggy and ugly the thing is.

Anyway Kenshi 1 upgrade all the way. I doubt a Kenshi 1 port to Unreal will happen after Kenshi 2 is released for what it's worth. There wont be much profit in revisiting the original by then.

That's precisely why I DO recommend the game. Do you realize how hilarious things get to break the tedium? Watching guys you put down ascend into the heavens?

That aside, it's pretty asinine that people still hold the mindset of graphics > gameplay. It's not the prettiest, sure, but it gets the job done, and you know what's going on.

We already have Kenshi 1. Making it too good, especially with all it holds, won't be good for a lot of people with weaker PCs. I'd rather see how they can improve what's here with Kenshi 2, because let's face it: there's a lot of room for improvements that mods shouldn't have to solve.

personally my hopes for kenshi 2 are low i wanted a kenshi 1 upgrade because kenshi 1 is a post apocoliptic survival game, and from what i understand kenshi 2 is going to take place before all the ♥♥♥♥ that went down leading to kenshi 1 so its not gonna be post apocolipse.

[Legion]

zeak z původně napsal:

HaTsUnE_NeKo původně napsal:

its possible ti could be ported, but it would break every mod as well.

i think it would be a worthy sacrifice

Hardly. Considering the fact that modding wouldn't be as friendly. That, and how many mods add things that Kenshi appears to miss. Better faction interactions that, for a game all about interaction, lacks quite a bit. Armors, weapons, research. The armor/weaponry that's already in vanilla feels so limited. And before someone makes the idiotic comment that it's post apocalyptic, bear in mind that people are forging things. Are they only going to forge the same few, lackluster things that are there? I doubt it. Highly.

Considering the amount of people that use mods, which I would wager is greater than those who do not, in addition to those who absolutely love the mods they use, I would have to say that sacrificing something that a grand majority of people use would be stupid. It would be stupid and detrimental of them to shoot themselves in the foot by erasing a feature they tote their support for.

[Legion]

zeak z původně napsal:

Nomadic původně napsal:

That's precisely why I DO recommend the game. Do you realize how hilarious things get to break the tedium? Watching guys you put down ascend into the heavens?

That aside, it's pretty asinine that people still hold the mindset of graphics > gameplay. It's not the prettiest, sure, but it gets the job done, and you know what's going on.

We already have Kenshi 1. Making it too good, especially with all it holds, won't be good for a lot of people with weaker PCs. I'd rather see how they can improve what's here with Kenshi 2, because let's face it: there's a lot of room for improvements that mods shouldn't have to solve.

personally my hopes for kenshi 2 are low i wanted a kenshi 1 upgrade because kenshi 1 is a post apocoliptic survival game, and from what i understand kenshi 2 is going to take place before all the ♥♥♥♥ that went down leading to kenshi 1 so its not gonna be post apocolipse.

Which would build upon the story and lore. Why polish a game that's been played plenty? There's no continuance in money that way. They can't keep just one best-selling game under their belt and expect to survive. They'll need to make another one. As much as I enjoy post apocalyptic games, I know I, and probably many others, want to see how things were before things got so bad. HOW did the world get this way? Being a part of that interests me more than playing in the aftermath.

[zeakz]

Nomadic původně napsal:

zeak z původně napsal:

personally my hopes for kenshi 2 are low i wanted a kenshi 1 upgrade because kenshi 1 is a post apocoliptic survival game, and from what i understand kenshi 2 is going to take place before all the ♥♥♥♥ that went down leading to kenshi 1 so its not gonna be post apocolipse.

Which would build upon the story and lore. Why polish a game that's been played plenty? There's no continuance in money that way. They can't keep just one best-selling game under their belt and expect to survive. They'll need to make another one. As much as I enjoy post apocalyptic games, I know I, and probably many others, want to see how things were before things got so bad. HOW did the world get this way? Being a part of that interests me more than playing in the aftermath.

thats the mindset behind every ♥♥♥♥♥♥ sequal, imagine a having a story based dark souls game that exists to fill in the gaps. it sounds bad right? some things are best left unanswered because our imagination fills in the blanks with much more interesting stuff than the devs could come up with

[Shidan]

We'll still be in an apocalyptic style world. Kenshi's history has had two major civilizations, the one that will be featured in Kenshi 2 was built in the ruins of the first. While they are still slightly more advanced than the current game's world, it's not by too much. I expect the feel will be largely the same.

[zeakz]

Shidan původně napsal:

We'll still be in an apocalyptic style world. Kenshi's history has had two major civilizations, the one that will be featured in Kenshi was built in the ruins of the first. While they are still slightly more advanced than the current game's world, it's not by too much. I expect the feel will be largely the same.

that's reasuring to know, thanks for the response

[Legion]

zeak z původně napsal:

Nomadic původně napsal:

Which would build upon the story and lore. Why polish a game that's been played plenty? There's no continuance in money that way. They can't keep just one best-selling game under their belt and expect to survive. They'll need to make another one. As much as I enjoy post apocalyptic games, I know I, and probably many others, want to see how things were before things got so bad. HOW did the world get this way? Being a part of that interests me more than playing in the aftermath.

thats the mindset behind every ♥♥♥♥♥♥ sequal, imagine a having a story based dark souls game that exists to fill in the gaps. it sounds bad right? some things are best left unanswered because our imagination fills in the blanks with much more interesting stuff than the devs could come up with

That's implying that every sequel is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ due to it. And to your example, no, it doesn't sound bad, coming from a DS vet. Imagination can lend itself to some decency, but some things require some actual explanation; some actual sense to what we're doing.

[Legion]

Shidan původně napsal:

We'll still be in an apocalyptic style world. Kenshi's history has had two major civilizations, the one that will be featured in Kenshi 2 was built in the ruins of the first. While they are still slightly more advanced than the current game's world, it's not by too much. I expect the feel will be largely the same.

As long as there are more options to weapons and armors as compared to the lackluster variety currently in K1.

[SmallGespenst]

Nomadic původně napsal:

zeak z původně napsal:

thats the mindset behind every ♥♥♥♥♥♥ sequal, imagine a having a story based dark souls game that exists to fill in the gaps. it sounds bad right? some things are best left unanswered because our imagination fills in the blanks with much more interesting stuff than the devs could come up with

That's implying that every sequel is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ due to it. And to your example, no, it doesn't sound bad, coming from a DS vet. Imagination can lend itself to some decency, but some things require some actual explanation; some actual sense to what we're doing.

IMO the single biggest flaw with Dark Souls is that all of the interesting stuff is thousands of years in the past. nothing you do has any real impact because everything of any real significance is ancient history, even the ending choice is just "do you sacrifice yourself to postpone an inevitable ending?" the only thing that's changed if it's now or in a few(hundred?) years time, nothing matters.
but that's enough of that rant, it's silly to say that there wouldn't be significant delays on the progress of Kenshi 2 if they ported Kenshi because there's a lot of work involved, outside of the Ogre engine used for rendering Kenshi runs on a custom built engine, porting all of the games basic (and advanced) functionality to a new engine would take a considerable amount of work, potentially requiring the entire game to be re-built, that kind of effort takes time, time that could be spent working on actually making a better experience in Kenshi 2. I'm certainly not alone in thinking that a half-assed remaster wouldn't be worth the harm it'd do to the production of Kenshi 2.

[crossmr]

bunny de fluff původně napsal:

LOL you are an game developer using unreal engine, riiiight. Which game did you port from which engine to unreal engine if I may ask? wink wink

I don't need to port a game, our company is making a new game. I'm pointing out that the experience they get from porting the first game will benefit them in making the second game.

Sapo původně napsal:

crossmr původně napsal:

It's got nothing to do with being art. It's got to do with the average person not understanding game development, so asking their opinion while poisoning the well by characterizing working on Kenshi 1 first as "introducing significant delay" means they were fishing for a specific response. I'm actually an Unreal developer working here in South Korea, so I know the benefit of getting your feet wet by porting the first one before jumping into the second. The second is a complete unknown, the first has the benefit of a lot of it being laid out and done, so you know exactly what you're trying to emulate.

They didn't "poison the well"... they just spoke the truth; I agree, you don't need game development experience to know that porting an entire game from a custom ogre engine to UE4 would be a nightmare, and hence, delay the sequel....

Sure they did. They only provided people with a con of porting the first and presented none of the pro's that would come from it, like getting experience on the engine before diving into a totally fresh game. There is also a lot of overlap, many of the things they make in porting 1 could then be used or improved for 2, which may actually save some development time. But only listing a con is poisoning the well because they were setting people up to give a specific answer. As you can see here and in other threads, people lack the sense to realize there are benefits in porting 1 first.

[bunny de fluff]

You don't have the experience of porting game from any other engine to unreal and you go on and on about all the things one can stand to learn on doing that, the devs should really heed your advice.

[bunny de fluff]

You are wrong about people don't know nothing about game making. I made an adventure game long time ago using an old but good engine called adventure game studio, that engine is still being updated today. When I found a newer and fancier engine called godot, I realized that creating a new game straight away with it is the best and faster way to learn about it. There is nothing to be gained porting your old game over to use the new engine, because the effort to port it is exactly like creating a new game straight away from the first time you use it. It is actually good to forget everything about your old game instead, because you are a total stranger to the new engine you really can't afford to keep track of two engines.

[Caliburn]

awhurley původně napsal:

IMO the single biggest flaw with Dark Souls is that all of the interesting stuff is thousands of years in the past. nothing you do has any real impact because everything of any real significance is ancient history, even the ending choice is just "do you sacrifice yourself to postpone an inevitable ending?" the only thing that's changed if it's now or in a few(hundred?) years time, nothing matters.
but that's enough of that rant, it's silly to say that there wouldn't be significant delays on the progress of Kenshi 2 if they ported Kenshi because there's a lot of work involved, outside of the Ogre engine used for rendering Kenshi runs on a custom built engine, porting all of the games basic (and advanced) functionality to a new engine would take a considerable amount of work, potentially requiring the entire game to be re-built, that kind of effort takes time, time that could be spent working on actually making a better experience in Kenshi 2. I'm certainly not alone in thinking that a half-assed remaster wouldn't be worth the harm it'd do to the production of Kenshi 2.

I think the Final Fantasy 7 remake will set the tone for remasters for the foreseeable future, I'm a huge Devil May Cry fan and the remaster we got was just depressing, I haven't even bought it. If we do go for the whole 'lets recreate Kenshi 1 after creating Kenshi 2' thing I hope that it's a significant step up like remastered games should be.

As for experience working with the engine, we're also hiring around that so for quite a few members of the team (potentially the majority, haven't met the new hires yet but they're starting soon) Unreal will be what they know, between that and creating slices to test different things, which is what every game developer should be doing, I think we're in a good spot. Then again, the caveat of my comments on this is always that I'm not a programmer so I could be miles off.

Finally, on the topic of Dark Souls since you mentioned it, I think one of the great things about story telling in the series is that you're seeing a lot of endings, a lot of things that might have gone differently are told to you and you can help usher them to their finish regardless of if you agree. Helping Lucatiel or helping Siegward are pretty obvious examples of this and it fits the game's tone very well. A lot of the themes seem to be around inevitability and the side stories like those help to reflect this. Without spoiling too much though, from your comment you're missing an ending and it's the one you seem to be after if breaking the age of fire/darkness cycles is what you're going for.