Higher level martial arts moves worse?

[Ygdrad]

My character used to give quick slaps/punches and kicks, but after leveling he now does a sort of palm strike. Problem is this palm strike is slow, and has terrible recovery time which stops him from dodging any sort of counterattack, this is especially terrible against animals which will maul you each time you hit them.

Are there other moves at higher levels past the palm strike? If not I'm going to have to abandon the idea of martial arts.

[Regyptian]

Martial artists become super strong, but it takes a long time. Have faith in them.

[balalaika86]

There are other moves you learn at higher levels.

The thing with MA is that it's a very good idea to train Strength and Toughness aswell, since they influence how much damage MA does.

My solo character is a martial artist with str 95, toughness 85, dex 60, dodge 65 and MA 61 and he is able to basically one-shot low level mobs and some mid-level mobs. While being pretty much naked. With good equipment he has no problem taking out Iron Spiders found in Ancient Labs. So being a martial artist is definitely viable. ;)

[Ygdrad]

Since you know how MA works, let me ask another question. Do I need to use the martial arts bindings? They sort of cost an armor slot without giving protection :/

[War Chicken]

I think they boost MA skill?

[Ygdrad]

Originally posted by Storm Eagle:

I think they boost MA skill?

They give 2 MA, which in the grand scheme of thing really isn't much. The MA skill claims to lower the damage your fists take, so I'm wondering if it might be worth it to juse use some light/medium armor in the shirt slot, especially considering that fist damage probably increases toughness.

[Shidan]

Another very important thing to note about MA, Strength is the stat that governs attack speed. Increase that to speed up your moves so you get hit less often. :)

[oi__io]

Originally posted by Shidan:

Another very important thing to note about MA, Strength is the stat that governs attack speed. Increase that to speed up your moves so you get hit less often. :)

Wait, does it mean Strength stat affect MA attack speed but it's Dexterity for any other weapon? Is that how it is? Very interesting indeed.

[Shidan]

Dexterity is used to boost the speed of cutting based weapons, and appears to have a larger effect based on how much cut compared to blunt damage the weapon has.

Strength is for blunt based ones, having a larger effect more blunt (and thus weight) compared to cut damage it has.

Or that's my understanding of it at the moment. Every now and then oddities show up to make me second guess how things work. Polearms are an odd one for instance, since they have often have more blunt, but are lighter. Not sure what governs their speed.

[=(e)= Lemonater47]

Originally posted by oi__io:

Originally posted by Shidan:

Another very important thing to note about MA, Strength is the stat that governs attack speed. Increase that to speed up your moves so you get hit less often. :)

Wait, does it mean Strength stat affect MA attack speed but it's Dexterity for any other weapon? Is that how it is? Very interesting indeed.

Actually strength determines attack speed for weapons too.

I mean just give a high dexterity, low strength character an edgewalker plank. It's gonna be slow. Swinging around a ninja blade ain't gonna make you be able to use a 30KG plank.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by Shidan:

Dexterity is used to boost the speed of cutting based weapons, and appears to have a larger effect based on how much cut compared to blunt damage the weapon has.

Strength is for blunt based ones, having a larger effect more blunt (and thus weight) compared to cut damage it has.

Or that's my understanding of it at the moment. Every now and then oddities show up to make me second guess how things work. Polearms are an odd one for instance, since they have often have more blunt, but are lighter. Not sure what governs their speed.

That is one of the reasons I love Naginata vs Polearm in game.

Originally posted by =(e)= Lemonater47:

Originally posted by oi__io:

Wait, does it mean Strength stat affect MA attack speed but it's Dexterity for any other weapon? Is that how it is? Very interesting indeed.

Actually strength determines attack speed for weapons too.

I mean just give a high dexterity, low strength character an edgewalker plank. It's gonna be slow. Swinging around a ninja blade ain't gonna make you be able to use a 30KG plank.

DEX makes my characters attack faster, not STR. The better the DEX skill, the faster they swing any weapon, even those stupid planks and fragment axes everyone loves so d**n much.

STR makes them do more damage though.

[oi__io]

I see.

The way I understand it, most (if not all) blunt weapons are also heavy weapon. For the most part, the heavier the weapon, the more blunt damage it inflict. So it makes sense that character with low Strength stat will not be able to wield it properly, hence slower attack.

But I always assume it is Dexterity that affect attack speed. I guess it just makes sense to me that Dexterity affects the attack speed for all weapon while Strength determine whether or not the character is able to wield a heavy weapon effectively and character with low Strength stat will have a debuff when wielding heavy weapon.

I know the amount of damage inflicted by MA is determined by Strength but never consider that it also affect MA attack speed before.

I understand it properly now. MA attack speed is affected by Strength and not Dexterity due to MA inflicting blunt damage.

I think that's a pretty shoddy implementation since it makes it appears as if MA is in the same category as heavy weapon. MA attack speed should be determined by Dexterity while it's attack damage value should be determined by Strength.

I guess maybe that is too complex to implement in the game? MA as it is now seems more like an afterthought tho.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by oi__io:

I see.

The way I understand it, most (if not all) blunt weapons are also heavy weapon. For the most part, the heavier the weapon, the more blunt damage it inflict. So it makes sense that character with low Strength stat will not be able to wield it properly, hence slower attack.

But I always assume it is Dexterity that affect attack speed. I guess it just makes sense to me that Dexterity affects the attack speed for all weapon while Strength determine whether or not the character is able to wield a heavy weapon effectively and character with low Strength stat will have a debuff when wielding heavy weapon.

I know the amount of damage inflicted by MA is determined by Strength but never consider that it also affect MA attack speed before.

I understand it properly now. MA attack speed is affected by Strength and not Dexterity due to MA inflicting blunt damage.

I think that's a pretty shoddy implementation since it makes it appears as if MA is in the same category as heavy weapon. MA attack speed should be determined by Dexterity while it's attack damage value should be determined by Strength.

I guess maybe that is too complex to implement in the game? MA as it is now seems more like an afterthought tho.

Toughness affects damage output for Martial Arts too.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by Ygdrad:

Originally posted by Storm Eagle:

I think they boost MA skill?

They give 2 MA, which in the grand scheme of thing really isn't much. The MA skill claims to lower the damage your fists take, so I'm wondering if it might be worth it to juse use some light/medium armor in the shirt slot, especially considering that fist damage probably increases toughness.

The Martial Artist Bindings can make one heck of a difference at most levels, especially when combined with the Gi, Gi Pants, Wooden Sandals (Geta) and either a Bandana or Straw Hat.

But that +2 alone that you scoff at makes one HECK of a difference at low level, and also at very HIGH level, when it really shines through.

But it does depend on playstyle and how you've trained to that point.

[balalaika86]

Originally posted by Ygdrad:

Since you know how MA works, let me ask another question. Do I need to use the martial arts bindings? They sort of cost an armor slot without giving protection :/

In my experience, bindings are less useful at higher skills. You want that 70% hand protection bonus at lower levels to protect your fists from taking extra damage when you use the MA skill. But the damage taken decreases as your MA skill increases. I think the general damage resistance from increased Toughness has an effect on that aswell, but can't say for sure. The big debate around bindings are at what skill level the cut-off point is. In my experience, the effect of bindings are negligible when your MA is 40+. At that point I just use either a leather turtleneck or Blackened Chainmail for the shirt slot instead, and don't really see my arms taking any extra damage from MA because of it.

[major lag]

fyi can use martial arts bindings(70 fist protection)+ crab raider armor ( which offers 90% fist protection) = fists protected and the crab raider armor adds def and weight, which helps martial arts training a bunch.