Is the Kenshi wiki website a cheat guide ?

[Germania516]

I been looking up some items on the website,and it seems very helpful, but was wondering if it was made for taking the easy way out,and not recommended for wanting to learn the game yourself.

[harberst]

IMO it depends on how you're using it. If you're looking up locations of cities/ruins/bounties, then sure, it could be considered "cheaty". If you're using it to try in fill in some of the gaps in the game's own explanations (armor/weapon stats and what they mean for example) than no.

Of course this is all very subjective as it's a single-player game so the only player whose experience you're going effect is your own.

[Hatsune Neko Gaming]

it's only as cheat if you use the info to your benefit.

[Germania516]

Ty,and I was only looking up weapons./armour to compare stats,and not information for locations of impourtant areas. I use the in game maps for locating ruins/bounties/cities.

So far I am not cheating lol But I have to admit this website is amazing if you want to know about gear,and the different items.

[Saint]

You should be finding and buying those weapons in game to compare stats, you dirty cheater.

[TehOuchies]

I uesd the wiki a while back to find unique recruits. <3 having those dirty buggers and their inane babble.

[Germania516]

Originally posted by Shaitan:

You should be finding and buying those weapons in game to compare stats, you dirty cheater.

I did already study all the gear on the game,and been to every city {Yes I found the cities from the in game maps} so I was just brushing up on the gear so even though I looked up the items I already knew what to expect :D

Also sarcasm is big in Sweden so I figured you are being sarcastic lol

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Germania516:

I been looking up some items on the website,and it seems very helpful, but was wondering if it was made for taking the easy way out,and not recommended for wanting to learn the game yourself.

Cheat guide? There are surely some "spoilers" in it, but it's just information - Use it however you want to use it.

I've seen more than a fair share of posts/comments in the Kenshi community about "cheating" and comments like:

"I don't want to say anything about this really interesting awesome thing that might happen to you, but probably won't since you don't know about it and will not likely ever decide to go there and do this one really cool thing to get the awesome cool thing to happen.... So, I won't say anything about it, just in case, 'cause that'd be cheating or a spoiler or would ruin your fun."

O.o

Kenshi is a lot of fun and it's a "good game." But, there's no manual to speak of, really. The mechanics of the game are very complex and unintuitive compared to similar games. It's a unique game, with few other examples that could barely fit in its niche. A great many things happen in Kenshi that are not explained to the player anywhere. There are only a few vague hints available to the player about deeper, larger, game mechanics and these are entirely left up to chance whether or not the player ilicits the appropriate behavior to trigger them.

All of this supposedly adds to the game's difficulty level and appeal for players who want an "open world" experience where exploration is a major goal of play. Some players value the "hidden" over the "revealed" and count this as a major attraction for the game.

But... It's actually a ton of development time that has a high likelihood of being completely wasted on a per-user basis. I wonder how many players, once they move on to a different game, will happen across a Kenshi post where a player recounts an experience they had and that one-time player will say to themselves "I never got to have that experience. I wish I had known about that."

On today's shelf, we have a ton of indie games. Few of these games have any sort of manual and we accept that. Why? It's likely because the developers don't know what's not going to make it off the cutting-room floor. And, by release day, they're just too darn overworked to take on the extra task. Who wants to slog through having to write stuffs and get some UI screenshots and crap like that after coding all day and stomping bugs? :/

If it wasn't for people making "wikis" and if it wasn't for fan-forums and youtube and livestreaming... gamers would probably ignore most indie games because they wouldn't know how to play them, wouldn't understand what play experience they should expect, and wouldn't even know the most basic control features of an indie game.

I enjoy Kenshi a great deal, but it has some serious flaws in it, can be buggy as heck, character/NPC behavior can be confusing, and there is little in the way of direction or goal-oriented play encouraged. For "veteran gamers" used to the standard portfolio of "open-world indie games with high-development energy but low production values" it's not too terrible.

But, without all the support materials available, even if they are outdated, and without players discussing things, potentially revealing "secrets" ,and without things like the "wiki," Kenshi might not hold a veteran gamer's interest for very long.

It's not "cheating" if one is trying to learn how to enjoy a game.

[Germania516]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by Germania516:

I been looking up some items on the website,and it seems very helpful, but was wondering if it was made for taking the easy way out,and not recommended for wanting to learn the game yourself.

Cheat guide? There are surely some "spoilers" in it, but it's just information - Use it however you want to use it.

I've seen more than a fair share of posts/comments in the Kenshi community about "cheating" and comments like:

"I don't want to say anything about this really interesting awesome thing that might happen to you, but probably won't since you don't know about it and will not likely ever decide to go there and do this one really cool thing to get the awesome cool thing to happen.... So, I won't say anything about it, just in case, 'cause that'd be cheating or a spoiler or would ruin your fun."

O.o

Kenshi is a lot of fun and it's a "good game." But, there's no manual to speak of, really. The mechanics of the game are very complex and unintuitive compared to similar games. It's a unique game, with few other examples that could barely fit in its niche. A great many things happen in Kenshi that are not explained to the player anywhere. There are only a few vague hints available to the player about deeper, larger, game mechanics and these are entirely left up to chance whether or not the player ilicits the appropriate behavior to trigger them.

All of this supposedly adds to the game's difficulty level and appeal for players who want an "open world" experience where exploration is a major goal of play. Some players value the "hidden" over the "revealed" and count this as a major attraction for the game.

But... It's actually a ton of development time that has a high likelihood of being completely wasted on a per-user basis. I wonder how many players, once they move on to a different game, will happen across a Kenshi post where a player recounts an experience they had and that one-time player will say to themselves "I never got to have that experience. I wish I had known about that."

On today's shelf, we have a ton of indie games. Few of these games have any sort of manual and we accept that. Why? It's likely because mostly because the developers don't know what's not going to make it off the cutting-room floor. And, by release day, they're just too darn overworked to take on the extra task.

If it wasn't for people making "wikis" and if it wasn't for fan-forums and youtube and livestreaming... gamers would probably ignore most indie games because they wouldn't know how to play them, wouldn't understand what play experience they should expect, and wouldn't even know the most basic control features of an indie game.

I enjoy Kenshi a great deal, but it has some serious flaws in it, can be buggy as heck, character/NPC behavior can be confusing, and there is little in the way of direction or goal-oriented play encouraged. For "veteran gamers" used to the standard portfolio of "open-world indie games with high-development energy but low production values" it's not too terrible.

But, without all the support materials available, even if they are outdated, and without players discussing things, potentially revealing "secrets" ,and without things like the "wiki," Kenshi might not hold a veteran gamer's interest for very long.

It's not "cheating" if one is trying to learn how to enjoy a game.

I do agree that the forums is more dangerous because some player spews some secret or spoiler lol I seen that many,and some games were not enjoyable because I knew the ending or what to expect.

Yes you click on a topic,and get the magic pop up "i can't shut my mouth enough" flag. I don't get why players should give away spoliers,and a either they are trolls that enjoy getting a rise,arrogant and have to let other's know they know more, or they just don't have good manners.

A very well said post,and ty for replying to this topic.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Germania516:

I do agree that the forums is more dangerous because some player spews some secret or spoiler lol I seen that many,and some games were not enjoyable because I knew the ending or what to expect.

Yes you click on a topic,and get the magic pop up "i can't shut my mouth enough" flag. I don't get why players should give away spoliers,and a either they are trolls that enjoy getting a rise,arrogant and have to let other's know they know more, or they just don't have good manners.

A very well said post,and ty for replying to this topic.

Thanks. Just remember that this is a "game." It's not a life-achievement. It's meant to be "played" and for the players to have "fun playing it."

Anything that reinforces that is "good." Anything that prevents that is "bad."

A player can make their own choices about what to read and when to click on a forum post or scroll down and continue reading it. Choice.

If you look at the forum posts in the various subforums here for Kenshi, look at the subreddit, see posts in other places, you'll find a ton of players that don't know as much as you do.

There are a decent number of very "Beginner" level "tutorials" on youtube for Kenshi. "How to build" or a few introductory playthroughs that never, ever, get past the basic base-building/survive the raids gameplay. How many are there about deeper mechanics? About how the world can change? About how some NPCs may actually be a bit more significant than just mobile objects for the AI to move around?

Nada... Zilch. (That I could find, at least.)

Where's the part of the manual that tells the player how significant their actions can be in this game?

Games are entirely about "feedback." They're about a clear connection to cause-and-effect and reward the player for learning how to use the available tools effectively to produce a desired outcome. If a great many of those tools are "hidden" too well, a great many players will never find out how to enjoy using them in the game.

The point of all of this is that there are some really nifty gameplay elements that some players will never, ever, see before the next shiny new game comes along if it wasn't for other players helping to reveal these mysteries.

Enjoy your game how you wish to enjoy it. :) And, if you don't want a map or don't want to know certain mechanics or game features, then take a care with your "clicks" in forums where the thread topic might seem to be "spoilerish."

But, some players really want help learning how to enjoy the game. They may be having some fun, but worry that won't last since they can't see where the game's "deeper" level of play resides. For those players who like the game just as much as anyone else, they want... information. That's not cheating, that's just learning how to have fun. :)

[nDervish]

Originally posted by Germania516:

I don't get why players should give away spoliers,and a either they are trolls that enjoy getting a rise,arrogant and have to let other's know they know more, or they just don't have good manners.

Perhaps because some of us find the very concept of "spoilers" to be absurd? I want to play games that are fun regardless of whether I already know all their "secrets" or not, not games which are only enjoyable if I'm ignorant of how they work. Also, I prefer sandbox games over plot-driven games, and "plot spoilers" aren't even a meaningful concept when there's no plot to "spoil".

Not to mention that, in the specific case of Kenshi, all the guides and tutorials and common knowledge about how you "have to" play the game are bull anyhow. You actually can do quite well in the game without ever loading up a backpack full of iron ore, torturing prisoners by repeatedly maiming them, doing any kind of AFK "training", mass-producing bandanas, etc.

[Reef]

Originally posted by nDervish:

Originally posted by Germania516:

I don't get why players should give away spoliers,and a either they are trolls that enjoy getting a rise,arrogant and have to let other's know they know more, or they just don't have good manners.

Perhaps because some of us find the very concept of "spoilers" to be absurd? I want to play games that are fun regardless of whether I already know all their "secrets" or not, not games which are only enjoyable if I'm ignorant of how they work. Also, I prefer sandbox games over plot-driven games, and "plot spoilers" aren't even a meaningful concept when there's no plot to "spoil".

Not to mention that, in the specific case of Kenshi, all the guides and tutorials and common knowledge about how you "have to" play the game are bull anyhow. You actually can do quite well in the game without ever loading up a backpack full of iron ore, torturing prisoners by repeatedly maiming them, doing any kind of AFK "training", mass-producing bandanas, etc.

i agree, i really don't get why people say you have to do those things to increase stats. i just play the game with natural progression as its a lot less boring.

[Full Frontal Yeti]

Is the Kenshi wiki website a cheat guide ?

Personally i'd say only the designer of a game can tell anyone what is or is not, objectively, cheating their game.

From my own POV, which includes several decades of gaming.
I find that shipping a game without any instructions/player agency information, does not qualify as claiming a designed game challenge.

but that kinda depends on what is or is not involved in the game play.
For example, if we start at some kind of age 18-20 something in the world of Kenshi.
Then the player being left to "learn the hard way" what someone who spent the last 20 years in that world would already reasonably know.
That's just lazy game design claiming "challenge" where really they were at best playing the game of 52 pick up with the person that paid for the game.
Sure it would have been reasonable for you to know that, but you didn't and now the game gets another 30 min+ of play time padding for the player being left to learn the rules of the game by trial and error.

Some games, some make plenty of sense that the player is "figuring it out as they go."
But I find that plenty of the info in the wiki for this game, is basically unreasonable to claim is ""game play" to find out, rather than duh the player is a person that grew up in this world so it is only reasonable that the player have the play agency of informed decisions.


All that said, the wiki is not controlled by the game designer so is, from my POV, a mixed bag of both reasonable to have info and spoilers/cheaty info to have obtained in advance.
But I don't find it that difficult to understand when a link is likely to reveal such to me and not click it. Like say a world map with all locations revealed on it, yeah not clicking that kinda link personally. While knowing things like WTF does the "quality" of a mine site mean? Yeah that's some need to know for the player or we can't have any agency in our choice of what mine site quality we are picking to work on.

This is basically some ??? on almost every game made today, due to the combo of games where some aspects are the player figuring it out legit style, and other games that figured out just not bothering to write a manual to go with it, lowers costs and increases total potential play time.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Full Frontal Yeti:

...but that kinda depends on what is or is not involved in the game play.
For example, if we start at some kind of age 18-20 something in the world of Kenshi.
Then the player being left to "learn the hard way" what someone who spent the last 20 years in that world would already reasonably know.
That's just lazy game design claiming "challenge" where really they were at best playing the game of 52 pick up with the person that paid for the game.
Sure it would have been reasonable for you to know that, but you didn't and now the game gets another 30 min+ of play time padding for the player being left to learn the rules of the game by trial and error.

Some games, some make plenty of sense that the player is "figuring it out as they go."
But I find that plenty of the info in the wiki for this game, is basically unreasonable to claim is ""game play" to find out, rather than duh the player is a person that grew up in this world so it is only reasonable that the player have the play agency of informed decisions.

...

This is basically some ??? on almost every game made today, due to the combo of games where some aspects are the player figuring it out legit style, and other games that figured out just not bothering to write a manual to go with it, lowers costs and increases total potential play time.

^-- This. All of this. Good post.

[NIL0S]

I have played 200 hours + and been using the wiki since the very start. Kenshi is a lot about discovery, but at the same time it's not particularly good (nor does it care to) tell you what (and where) there is to discover, and what you can do or not. That's where the wiki comes in. I might find a thing, play around with it, then look up the wiki if something is unclear or feels like I might have missed the point of it. Served me right up to now. This is generally how I approach other games as well.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by ⓃⒾⓁⓄⓈ:

I have played 200 hours + and been using the wiki since the very start. Kenshi is a lot about discovery, but at the same time it's not particularly good (nor does it care to) tell you what (and where) there is to discover, and what you can do or not. That's where the wiki comes in. I might find a thing, play around with it, then look up the wiki if something is unclear or feels like I might have missed the point of it. Served me right up to now. This is generally how I approach other games as well.

That's one of the shortfalls of the engine and the overall design of the game - It's not easy for the player to see "all the cool stuff that they don't know is really cool stuff happening." Without the Wiki or forums, the player is never going to know about what happens after they do x and have conversation y unless they just happen to stumble across it during play. That's a lot of wasted work hours just so 20% of the players get a random chance to experience it, if that.

That's why the Wiki is so helpful. Plus, in today's world, nobody writes manuals anymore... What a shame.