Heavy Weapons: do they need dex?

[ScumWatcher]

so i've type-casted my sheks into tanks i mean it's what their best at....anyways i have notice that heavy weapons use the str more so then dex. now i know dex affects the heavy weapon but to what degree should i raise it up or keep my shek with a heavy weapon or make him use a lighter weapon 4 dex, his str is 33 and dex is 8

[rompier02]

Hi. High dex allows for faster blocking & increase cut damage.

[Erei]

Heavy weapons are slow since they are heavy. Which mean dex is actually very important for block speed (affect cut attack speed and block speed), otherwise you'll get stunlock by the opponent most of the time.
Also, every bit of speed help, and I think every heavy weapon have some cut into it.

[wordwaster]

Just in terms of damage: Falling sun needs it most of all, because of how much of its damage comes from cutting. If you don’t have high dex, you should be using a different heavy.

Plank less so because the cutting and blunt damage are more balanced; but it is still a big factor in damage output.

The fragment axe needs it the least, only a tiny bit of its damage comes from dexterity.

But they all do more damage with a higher dex.

[Locklave]

Dex effects attack and blocking speed in a major way, Heavy weapons have slow attack/block speed so you'll really feel the difference between high and low dex. Weapon damage aside.

[wordwaster]

I should add that the falling sun is also the one that will train dexterity fastest out of the three; although it doesn’t compete with using a katana to train.

Ideally you should prepare to use heavy weapons by using sabers at start, and then hackers for awhile, and then the plank. That way you are raising your strength and dex fairly evenly until you are ready to lay waste.

But if your strength is already high, or if you overload encumbrance to train strength, then just pop on a katana to get your dexterity caught up.

[wordwaster]

Because it is the percentage of cutting damage to blunt damage that determines the amount of dex exp you get and the exp is awarded per hit. So the pure cutting of a katana puts all the exp into dex, and it hits more often too. Total damage done doesn’t matter. That is why people will tell you to train with garbage weapons. You get the same exp per hit, but your opponent will stay on their feet longer to allow more hits.


And as for training both, it is better to do as I said in that previous post and work up through the lighter balanced weapons (saber then hacker) because they swing faster. Again it’s the per hit thing.

Once you get strength and dex to 40, that is the time to start using the heavies.

[Bedelguese]

Dex is needed for Falling Sun and Plank to get the most out of them, Fragment Axe doesn't need Dex as much as almost all its damage is blunt, but you'll still need a little for combat speed.

[wordwaster]

Originally posted by Queek Headtaker:

That Is what I keep reading from parrots, but to me, the Total Damage does matter. thats is why a Katun N1 Sun in my game is currently leaving behind a Nodachi Mk3 in XP

Dude. The offensive comments really aren’t needed.

Trust me or don’t. Why not run a test yourself? Get yourself a prisoner with decent combat stats. Make a save. Write down your dex exp. Spar for 5 minutes with a rusted junk katana. Then reload for 5 minutes with an edge type with the same character. Assuming the prisoner last 5 minutes against an edge type...

Or just check to see how much it goes up after a single swing.

I just recent trained up a couple of heavies from 27 to 40 with the worst katanas I could find. Took 3 sparring sessions against some inquisitors.

[Demonbox]

Don't train you dex and good luck swinging any decent heavy weapon.

Fragment Axe is on the contary one of the heavy weapons (if not THE) that most requires it, they heavier they are, the slowers you swing (nope Strength isn't enough).

Is not just about damage, that comes mainly from strength (or only from it, for the frag axe), but again, try and fight with a 70some heavy meitou Frag Axe without your dex at least in the 50-60 (ideally you should have it higher) and anything faster than you and with decent stats will eventually get you.

[Bedelguese]

Originally posted by Queek Headtaker:

That Is what I keep reading from parrots, but to me, the Total Damage does matter. thats is why a Katun N1 Sun in my game is currently leaving behind a Nodachi Mk2 in XP

A Nodachi has more blunt than your average Katana, the best blade for leveling dexterity is a Wakizashi.

The game's code does not lie, I keep seeing your patronizing and passive aggressive comments throughout different threads where me and others have told you how it works time and time again and you don't listen and continue going on with cotton in your ears badmouthing everyone that has tried to help you, just like a UC Noble.


KENSHI WIKI
Dexterity

According to the ingame stats menu, Dexterity is defined as

"Dexterity affects the speed and quality of your sword work. Your sword cuts will do more damage, your attacks and blocks will be faster."

"The Dexterity stat appears to increase when using weapons that have a higher ratio of cutting damage versus blunt damage. For instance, a Katana will be much better at raising Dexterity than a Jitte (which lacks cutting damage altogether) or Naginata (which has a lower ratio of cutting damage to blunt damage).

A common misconception is that heavier weapons contribute less to dexterity, but that is simply because blunt weapons tend to be heavier. The Staff, with its low weight but high blunt damage, is poor at raising both Dexterity (because of its blunt damage) and Strength (because of its low weight, since strength DOES rely on weapon weight)."

http://kenshi.wikia.com/wiki/Dexterity

[Demonbox]

Originally posted by Komrad:

Originally posted by Queek Headtaker:

That Is what I keep reading from parrots, but to me, the Total Damage does matter. thats is why a Katun N1 Sun in my game is currently leaving behind a Nodachi Mk2 in XP

A Nodachi has more blunt than your average Katana, the best blade for leveling dexterity is a Wakizashi.

Pretty much this, I have a Wakizashi (or a ninja blade if until I can find one), as secondary weapon on each of my heavy weapon wannabe masters.

Everytime I want to upgrade the quality of heavy weapon I'm going to use I spend some time raising the dex using only those small and fast blades.

[Bedelguese]

Originally posted by Demonbox:

Originally posted by Komrad:

A Nodachi has more blunt than your average Katana, the best blade for leveling dexterity is a Wakizashi.

Pretty much this, I have a Wakizashi (or a ninja blade if until I can find one), as secondary weapon on each of my heavy weapon wannabe masters.

Everytime I want to upgrade the quality of heavy weapon I'm going to use I spend some time raising the dex using only those small and fast blades.

Make sure it's a junk blade so you can hit the person as many times as possible.

[Shidan]

I'm one of the ones who tested the dex exp rate personally, and found out that weight had nothing to do with it and it was based on relative cut damage instead.

In that test, I had two character with identical stats, attack two other characters with identical stats. The only difference between both sets, was that one character had a really crap katana, and the other had a really good one.

Both characters hit their target once. And upon checking their exact exp value (which I might add tracks down to a 1/100000th of a level), they had the literal exact same amount of exp. So no, total damage has no effect on exp per hit. Which also means that it's a negative to have more damage, because the battle takes less time, which means less hits to get exp from.

[Sigmund]

Makes perfect sense. After all killing someone with 1 blow with an oversized weapon wouldn't give you much experience as say fighting with a practice sword in Kendo for a year.

For minmaxing of course.

Though i would say this, if you just take big weapon and go on killing a lot of stuff, eventually you will grow your stats anyway, (though probably way way slower than if you trained with a captive+rustedjunk wakizashi).

I just think both methods are viable, even if one is much less efficient.

I would only point out 1 thing, let's say you pickup a heavy weapon earlier than your "supposed to", you will also be levelling your skill in Heavy Weapons sooner than if you trained for extended period with Wakizashi to pump dex.

Unless of course you're running a massive prison complex with 50 prisoners that get beaten up on a regular basis to make your Wakizashi trainee become rambo in no time. :)

[wordwaster]

You really don’t need that many. My inquisitors will get through a few of my characters 1v1 before they go down. Let them keep their holy plate, give them an iron stick and some leg armor, and they will go the distance. Holy Phoenix and his guard are even better.

The problems with training “in the wild” are that a) you need to have a stronger opponent to train effectively. Once you get to a certain level, you won’t get much exp from most enemies wandering the world. And b)you tend to want to have your best weapons when you are out in the wilds, and even strong enemies just don’t last long enough to get much from them. (Or you won’t last long enough)