Enemy cleave attacks are excessive, player squads bunch up too much.

[BoogieMan]

I find is very frustrating how my squads will bunch up in a tight pack around an enemy even though only a few of them can actually attack, but when the enemy swings it cleaves through and hits like 6 of my people at a time.

This doesn't seem to affect the AI squads as much and other than simply using fewer people I can find no way around it. Player squads need to do a better job of not bunching up, because having that many people get hit by one swing of a 3ft sword is quite an astounding accomplishment.

It would also be nice to have a setting that encourages less skilled fighters to back off and let more skilled fighters step in when they are hurt and/or outmatched. Micromanaging on the level required to do it yourself isn't feasible as they shuffle around so much on their own, finely tuning positioning just isn't a way to deal with it.

[Hatsune Neko Gaming]

Hold shift and right click location to move to. They will stay in combat stance and you can move your people to where you want them.

[easterngames]

there is a mod to make open more attack slots so when you swarm moe of of your guys will be able to attack at once

[MinenSpecht]

Spread them out, put them on hold and kite the enemies with a taunting fast runner ninja. This way only some enemies will go for your other guys and you can one on one the heavy types.

[Migalouch]

Originally posted by easterngames:

there is a mod to make open more attack slots so when you swarm moe of of your guys will be able to attack at once

This could also backfire on you though since it works both ways.

[qgmo2009]

thats why you always spread out the fight and have only like 1 or 2 people max figting one enemy, especially if you have like 10 or 15 people in a squad like i do im albe to get at least one unit per enemy in a fight. very good against beak things for example where i take almost no damage killing a whole nest by spreading them out, because the things have a very large aoe attack but is very easily blocked if you uave only one person per thing.

[dwobwinkle]

Originally posted by Migalouch:

Originally posted by easterngames:

there is a mod to make open more attack slots so when you swarm moe of of your guys will be able to attack at once

This could also backfire on you though since it works both ways.

It should. It often increases the difficulty (npc raids are always bigger than my squad at least), but it also makes things much less silly.

[Bragdras]

Yup, it's annoying, aside from the devs giving us a squad formation option that doesn't involve wonky bodyguarding job, you'll have to painfully micro every single one of your dudes to shift click during combat and pause all the time.

[jbra1]

Using "Hold" allows you to position pretty well. You'll need to reposition as the fight develops. I don't quite see the problem in this. If you're up against a dangerous enemy who you're worried is going to kill a few of your guys before you take them down, micro-managing the fight gives a nice strategic layer and ups the tension. It's all personal taste of course, but if you think about those tense fights in terms of the boss fights in KOTOR, or turn-based combat, it's actually quite well implemented to simulate the chaos of battle with just enough strategy to give you agency.

[BoogieMan]

I'd like to see a compromise, the more micromanging you need to do the less you can enjoy the battles themselves, which I really like watching in real time. :/

[jbra1]

Originally posted by BoogieMan:

I'd like to see a compromise, the more micromanging you need to do the less you can enjoy the battles themselves, which I really like watching in real time. :/

Except right at the beginning, the game throws a mix at you usually. I agree it is awesome sitting back and watching the chaos unfurl - but that happens a lot with bands of bandits. That leaves the more tense engagements with squads of higher level enemies. These engagements, insofar as its possible for your whole squad, not just a few members, to go down bad, can be tense and focused. Still, like I said, it's personal taste I guess.

[Gozer]

the AOE damage from human(oid) enemies is a bit excessive. And especially against targets using decent armor. I don't mind animals and beasts like beak things doing tons of AOE, but it is ridiculous how much AOE damage slashing attack with weapon does and how many people it can hit.

- there should be HUGE damage reduction for AOE damage against armor (ok, attack can hit and damage multiple targets, but if they are armored then it shouldn't do much more than scratch them ... attacker shouldn't be able to cleave through several armored enemies with one swing)

- weapon AOE damage should be a lot more strength dependant (strength threshold below which AOE isn't even an option, you need very high strength for AOE to do any meaningfull damage even against unarmored or lightly armored opponents)

- maybe number of targets that can be hit by AOE should be toned down a bit?

[johntarmac]

I think it's swings and roundabouts. During a fog raid last night my heavy weapon guys just waded through cutting huge swathes into them. Yay for big AOE.
If I think I'm going to suffer badly from AOE I'll quickly spread my squad out, small squads individually and large squads just into left, middle and right groups.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by johntarmac:

I think it's swings and roundabouts. During a fog raid last night my heavy weapon guys just waded through cutting huge swathes into them. Yay for big AOE.
If I think I'm going to suffer badly from AOE I'll quickly spread my squad out, small squads individually and large squads just into left, middle and right groups.

That's the EXACT reason why I hate heavy weapons so much and don't use them, they're OP as crap and the game expects you to use them.

I also micro it.

I like to spread out my guys in an effort to avoid AOE attacks but also keep them somewhat close enough to aid one another if someone's fight is going badly.

[Gozer]

Originally posted by johntarmac:

I think it's swings and roundabouts. During a fog raid last night my heavy weapon guys just waded through cutting huge swathes into them. Yay for big AOE.
If I think I'm going to suffer badly from AOE I'll quickly spread my squad out, small squads individually and large squads just into left, middle and right groups.

it is pretty sad when game tries so hard to make really good combat system, only to completely throw it away and go into full "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy pants-on-head retarded" mode for no good reason when it comes to weapon AOE.

sure, player can work around the problem, but AI can't. Quite often you see two groups of AI enemies clash and the outcome is way too often decided by AOE nonsense because AI doesn't have a clue how to deal with it. In fact AI also doesn't have a clue how to use it properly so any success comes mostly to random chance, which group of AI combatants has better positioning to make better use of the 'accidental' AOE.

for me the AOE just throws a wrench into the otherwise well working combat system. High AOE is fine for large beasts, but what exactly is the current extremely high ammount of AOE damage of normal weapons needed for? For AI units it only works as RNG for combat outcome. For player it allows for cheesing through the combat by abusing things AI can't/won't use. I doubt that the AI will be improved to the point where they can use or counter AOE effectively, so it seems it is there solely for the benefit of player ... but I think that if the game really that desperately needs cheesy "I want to win easily" game mechanics it could be handled easier by simple cheat codes.

[johntarmac]

Originally posted by Peregrine:

Originally posted by johntarmac:

I think it's swings and roundabouts. During a fog raid last night my heavy weapon guys just waded through cutting huge swathes into them. Yay for big AOE.
If I think I'm going to suffer badly from AOE I'll quickly spread my squad out, small squads individually and large squads just into left, middle and right groups.

That's the EXACT reason why I hate heavy weapons so much and don't use them, they're OP as crap and the game expects you to use them.

Everything is OP once you get the quality ones and the users stats up to handle it.

I don't see how the game expects us to use them, after nearly 1200 hours of using mainly Katanas (just because I like them), I've now started giving my characters their races weapon of choice from the getgo. A 0 stat Shek gets the best fragment axe I can afford whether he/she can lift it or not.

I now have a playstyle diametrically opposed to yours though so our mileages are going to differ vastly.