Kenshi
ᛋᛟᛚ Jun 22, 2019 @ 8:21pm
Grand Strategy for Living Peacefully in The Border Zone
So I've developed a strategy, albeit an expensive and time consuming one, that will enable my solo, pacifist character to operate an outpost in the Border Zone, right next to the Dust King's Tower. I play vanilla with the exception of graphical, UI, and clutter reduction mods.

The strategy is as follows:

1. Become rich, very rich.
-Bandana business in Sho Battai.
- Upgrade to Sake.

2. Remove the Dust King using mercenaries and turn him in to the Shek.

-Ally UC, ST and TG.

-Capture Holy Servant and ally Holy Nation through catch and release.

3. Transfer a fallen Dust Bandit to Stoat and catch and release my way to +50 relations with Dust bandits.

4. Do the same for Starving Bandits, Holy Nation Outlaws and Black Dragon Ninjas (removing the BDN leadership using mercs).

5. Build a raid free settlement.

Will report progress as to the outcome of this endeavour.

I also plan to run an experiment to see if it's possible to ally the cannibals via the slave trader method, scrawnies shouldn't be too expensive. I'll let folks kknow if they still raid, capture and whatnot after hitting positive relations. I'm assuming their leaders may have to be taken out, but this could make living in the north far less of a hassel.
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Showing 16-24 of 24 comments
Zourin Jun 28, 2019 @ 7:55pm 
I don't quite get the whole 'catch and release' thing? How does that work?
THANKS OBAMA Jun 28, 2019 @ 8:27pm 
Factions that are starving I don't believe can ever become peaceful towards you because someone on the forums here that had bothered to screw around with that to reach what should be friendly relations said that even though normally they were not going to mess with them out in the wild they still would sometimes immediately charge to combat upon seeing his band while screaming for food.

I already got my own deal personally trying to get along with the Rebel Farmers but they ♥♥♥♥ it up constantly on their end.
Originally posted by cwhitney:
-snapple-
If I remember correctly getting to 50 or 75 prevents damage from happening. So you can prevent aggro radius.
Originally posted by Zourin:
I don't quite get the whole 'catch and release' thing? How does that work?
I have it in the spoiler.
You go to a slave market, sell them into slavery, and them purchase their freedom. You then proceed to pick them up (because they are green and you will be given the option/Knock them out with assassination) and resell them, so you can buy there freedom again. Each time you do this you gain +2 (or +4 I can't remember) relation with the given faction. However, it is very expensive if they have better stats. We are talking about a tech hunter costing 20,000 cats for their freedom.
ᛋᛟᛚ Jun 28, 2019 @ 10:03pm 
Originally posted by War Medic:
Originally posted by cwhitney:
-snapple-
If I remember correctly getting to 50 or 75 prevents damage from happening. So you can prevent aggro radius.
Originally posted by Zourin:
I don't quite get the whole 'catch and release' thing? How does that work?
I have it in the spoiler.
You go to a slave market, sell them into slavery, and them purchase their freedom. You then proceed to pick them up (because they are green and you will be given the option/Knock them out with assassination) and resell them, so you can buy there freedom again. Each time you do this you gain +2 (or +4 I can't remember) relation with the given faction. However, it is very expensive if they have better stats. We are talking about a tech hunter costing 20,000 cats for their freedom.

Speaking of those fellows

If you liberate an outlaw for 1000 cats so they join you, then pick them (to avoid them escaping recapture) and then dismiss them from your squad they usually join the Tech Hunters faction but remain as cheap as they were originally, meaning Tech Hunters can be allied with very easily using this method. Just thought I'd let you know in case you were working on them the hard way.
Last edited by ᛋᛟᛚ; Jun 28, 2019 @ 10:04pm
ᛋᛟᛚ Jun 28, 2019 @ 10:26pm 
Ok folks so I just tested this by making a new start in FCS using otherwise a completely vanilla game. In this new start I set the relation of Dust Bandits, Starving Bandits and Holy Nation Outlaws to 65.

So far I've visited Dust King's tower. I wasn't attacked upon entering, and despite telling me to leave they didn't become hostile. I even used the training dummies in the tower and they seemed cool with it.

I was approached by a group of Starving Bandits... now here's the really cool part.

There's even new dialogue for being their ally.

They approached and said "Hello friend, spare a cat?"

None of the options I had were hostile, the most dismissive/negative was the bottom one which was simply "I have nothing to spare".

The bandit leader just said "So hungry", then walked away.
ᛋᛟᛚ Jun 28, 2019 @ 11:31pm 
Originally posted by ᛋᛟᛚ:
The fact the bandits even acknowledge you as a friend and new dialogue options are presented for this eventuality is incredible on the devs part. The chances of the player ever successfully doing this are so low and yet there is content specific to this. Kenshi truly is one amazing game.

Going to test some more and report new finding and maybe some screenshots.

Screenshots:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1784771683

The dialogue

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1784771720

The non-violent aftermath

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1784771749

Starving Bandit Dialogue

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1784776267

The Response to top option

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1784776328

Despite not losing cats or food the one surviving bandit (the others fell to the Dust Bandits) began to follow me.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1784776371

It would seem that choosing the top option of the allied dialogue causes the hungry bandits to follow and protect you in the same way mercenaries do.

They do indeed!

The "big mob" in Skinner's Roam acting as mercenaries

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1784797902

Bodyguard contract shown in faction window

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1784801246

I'll continue testing this for different factions throughout the game using FCS and keep reporting. It could be that the Starving bandits having these features is a one off. And as has been reported earlier in this thread, certain factions will continue to attack regardless. However it does seem as though, from these results, that living in the border zone without any hostiles, bonedogs excepted, is possible in vanilla gameplay. If bandit demand raids continue and cannot be avoided peacefully, then killing the leaders should prevent the raids, mercs can be used for this without taking a relation hit. After that, besides HN and Shek visits, there should be no obstacles at all in operating a completely unthreatened base in the area.

P.s. Enjoyed that the first test character that was generated was called "Peace", very fitting name for this endeavour. Also deleting the previous post that is in the quote of this one to save thread space.
Last edited by ᛋᛟᛚ; Jun 28, 2019 @ 11:35pm
Shidan Jun 29, 2019 @ 9:33am 
The reason the Starving Bandits seem like a one off, is because of the factions you're testing they're the only one with a normal way to ally them. They have some rare special dialog every now and then, and the player can gain relations from it.
Morkonan Jun 29, 2019 @ 7:24pm 
Originally posted by cwhitney:
Unfortunately, there's an issue that would prevent this from happening.

A lot of the bandit factions are set to attack you no matter what your relationship with them is. ...

^-- This. Nothing is going to prevent that except destroying the faction. Even then, some factions are simply "greatly reduced" in frequency/appearance, IIRC.

I don't think one character could defend a base without some pretty heft mods. It could be possible, maybe, with collecting the Broken Skeletons and letting them out to defend against what few raids might be left, but that's only going to last for so long without mods... and it's not exactly a "solo" base at that point.

A small base that allows one to quickly escape to a town might suffice. And, if it gets taken over, then hiring mercenaries could work at that point. But, if one is hiring mercs, it''s not exactly a solo base, either.

It might be possible to find a place that has only one very small access spot, build a wall on it after everything else is built, and just keep repairing it until the raid starves to death or leaves... I guess. Would probably need a wall hp mod, though. (Narrow access might reduce the number of raiders trying to tear it down. But, the area also can't be big enough for them to spawn inside one's base, too.)

Or... just buy a house in town. You can do just about everything that is meaningful in terms of research and crafting in a house in a town. The biggest limiter is certain types of raw materials, like steel rods. But, for only one character, outfitting them with gear is not a big deal and, with enough money, crafting isn't necessary.


ᛋᛟᛚ Jun 30, 2019 @ 12:03am 
Originally posted by Morkonan:
Originally posted by cwhitney:
Unfortunately, there's an issue that would prevent this from happening.

A lot of the bandit factions are set to attack you no matter what your relationship with them is. ...

^-- This. Nothing is going to prevent that except destroying the faction. Even then, some factions are simply "greatly reduced" in frequency/appearance, IIRC.

I don't think one character could defend a base without some pretty heft mods. It could be possible, maybe, with collecting the Broken Skeletons and letting them out to defend against what few raids might be left, but that's only going to last for so long without mods... and it's not exactly a "solo" base at that point.

A small base that allows one to quickly escape to a town might suffice. And, if it gets taken over, then hiring mercenaries could work at that point. But, if one is hiring mercs, it''s not exactly a solo base, either.

It might be possible to find a place that has only one very small access spot, build a wall on it after everything else is built, and just keep repairing it until the raid starves to death or leaves... I guess. Would probably need a wall hp mod, though. (Narrow access might reduce the number of raiders trying to tear it down. But, the area also can't be big enough for them to spawn inside one's base, too.)

Or... just buy a house in town. You can do just about everything that is meaningful in terms of research and crafting in a house in a town. The biggest limiter is certain types of raw materials, like steel rods. But, for only one character, outfitting them with gear is not a big deal and, with enough money, crafting isn't necessary.

I should clarify that I'm not against using mercs to remove bandit leadership, in the case of my experiment those being Tora, Dust King, Dimak and Buzan, the squads of Tech Hunters and Mercs in the Waystation are usually sufficient to do this without my character needing to aggro the groups. In terms of hostile enemies that should be enough to cease the demands raids. What I've observed with the groups so far, the Dust Bandits for example, is that they will not be hostile after reaching +50 relations (i.e. they won't attack me on sight), however they will still initiate dialogue from time to time. However that dialogue has so far, not, led to them becoming hostile regardless of my choices of response.

For example when the "Let's fight" dialogue is triggered, and I select the option "no", the bandits will not aggro me and instead ignore my character.

So overall, any encounters can be dealt with in a way that avoids violence. I have to admit though, I'm unsure whether stray groups may still attempt to take over my outpost even in a "non-violent way", I'll report back if this is the case, but so far so good. In the wrost case scenario I guess they might simply move in but not pose a threat to my character as he goes about his buisness at the outpost. I know this would in every sense negate having a solo outpost in the sense that my character would be the only resident. However my aim here is to see whether under specific conditions, that a single character can live without being threatened with potential violence in a player created town.

I'm also aware that the method of "allying" (I guess just pacifying in reality) these groups is somehwat cheesy, certainly not lore-friendly and not immsersive in the slightest. Just testing the limits of the possible here is all.

And thank you for the info on the Starving Bandits there Shidan, that makes a lot of sense to be honest. I'll bear that in mind and suspect the worst from other groups. Maybe the Dust Bandits also refusing to aggro after dialogue is a rare case as well and for example the Swamp Ninjas would attack regardless. In such a case I guess the success rate of my experiment would vary depending on locale and the triggers of certain factions. However thus far the Border Zone appears to be "safe" for now.

Thanks everyone for the input, I'm know how idiotic this endeavour probably is and I appreciate all the feedback and interest/attempts at curbing my potentially time wasting ways. Come too far to back out now though without a definite result on whether this is possible xD

Edit: Also big thanks to you for your mods too Shidan, used them and will continue to use them once again on past and future plathroughs, Reactive World in particular is phenomenal and I'm very grateful for the hard work you must have put into that. Hoping it'll be adopted into the game officially at some point if you and the devs would be in agreement with that. Can't do a serious playthrough without that beast nowadays.

In fact I'm starting to wish I'd attempted this using your mod, the dust bandit content you made there could have been very useful in pulling this off... damn lol. Starving Bandit alliance would have been all the more useful in attaining a harmonic existence with the border denizens after the former group were were out of the picture.
Last edited by ᛋᛟᛚ; Jun 30, 2019 @ 12:21am
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Date Posted: Jun 22, 2019 @ 8:21pm
Posts: 24