This actually USED to be a good game

[CromX]

Now its not worth playing. There are so many just awful design decisions being made that it's hard to believe a game with such promise has fallen so hard. I can no longer recommend this game to anyone, whereas I used to do so.

1) Carnivorous animals
Why did you add them? And mostly importantly why is every animal I encounter going to "EAT" you? You may was well scrap the entire recovery, coma, bleeding system completely. Because having things kill you while unconscious destroys any point to it all. If your party loses a fight to overpowered dogs or what have you, they are done for. Just awful I don't see how you can sit there and take the time to code this in the game, without really asking yourself exactly how fun it is going to be for the player to have all his guys eaten alive every time they lose consciousness.

And I still don't see a way to kill the enemy when they are unconscious. So where is the parity?

2) Too many animals
I hate fighting animals. This game used to have Dust Bandits, Hungry Bandits and other enemies to fight with the occasional beast thrown in. Now its the other way around. As a general rule the beasts out run your party and are overpowered and in reference to point one they eat you alive.

3) Huge swarms of enemies
I must have seen like 50+ cannibals roaming around. Believe it or not there are some people who actually prefer to use smaller teams of people to role play with. Not to mention the FPS issues that these huge groups give.

4) Awful map
The new map is just a slog to navigate. There is an almost complete lack of open spaces to colonize or play in. The map is too a dark the textures make it hard to see the enemies. And the amount of fauna and props create a lag nightmare. I would reckon the map we have is like 40% usable, with the majority of it being steep cliffs and other blocks. Not too mention the awful rain and nights being dark.

The new biomes are just terrible. Some open grasslands and deserts are much needed, this weird♥♥♥♥♥purple mountainous stuff is just a giant eyesore and a pain to navigate.

END//

Now these are all the areas that the game has gone backwards. There are other areas I could criticize but most of these have been in since the game first appeared on steam so I won't touch on those. What I will say is that this game despite being Early Access and with all it flaws used to be fun to play. Its not anymore at all. And the recent design decisions don't lead me to believe its going to get any better, only much worse.

In a way this game is evolving to be much less fun. A pro tip to the developer. Some people like to hunt for items (Kill NPC groups NOT animals). They like find the perfect place near a functional town to setup base and fend off bandits. Your new terrain is frickin awful for base building. You need flat terrain to make the base look normal.

I can applaud the additional weapon types and the new game mechanics, but they are completely being destroyed by some boneheaded decisions like overpowered "monsters" who eat your whole party.

[Nadlug]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Good point, but that being the case, how exactly did humans survive in the first place? Literally everything in the world can overpower them, even with weapons and armor. The first human tribe to encounter a bonedog gets violently murdered... and there goes humanity forever.

Throwing Spears, bows and equal expierence in true survival situations. Hence why the bow was the favored hunting weapon for all human tribes up untill the discovery of gunpowder.

They also didnt have the comforts we have now that make us soft.

Your average denizin of Kenshi likely has more survival sence than you or I ever will after having gone through trianing. But even then there is some degree of decedence in sosciety ingame. Bars, Cealing fans, food that is mroe than simple barebone meals.

[NotFuji]

Originally posted by Nadlug:

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

All of them are far larger and more deadly than a bonedog, and still they fear humans, for good reason.

You are so incredibly mistaken it is unreal. Its not fear its caution. When a wild animal encounters a human they encounter alot of things they normally dont encounter. Because of a lack of expierence they typically err on the side of flight rather than flight. Survive to live another day.

Just look at any example of where an animal is cornered by a person. the animal will fight as they have no means of escape.

Animals also take into consideration the potential difficulty of bringing down a foe. Hence why sick or injured herd animals rarely survive long. Because all predators know an easy meal when they see it.

I get that :P

Still, there isn't an animal on the face of the earth that will attack you on sight besides humanity

Originally posted by Nadlug:

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Good point, but that being the case, how exactly did humans survive in the first place? Literally everything in the world can overpower them, even with weapons and armor. The first human tribe to encounter a bonedog gets violently murdered... and there goes humanity forever.

Throwing Spears, bows and equal expierence in true survival situations. Hence why the bow was the favored hunting weapon for all human tribes up untill the discovery of gunpowder.

They also didnt have the comforts we have now that make us soft.

If a sword barely injures them, a bow isn't going to do a whole lot.

[Erei]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

I woudln't suggest going one on one with anything using a musket. Apart from that, one wolf doesn't kill hundreds of people, don't take stories so literally. No wolf is going to attack a healthy adult. Any casualties were almost certainly elderly, children, infirm, etc.

Dogs are used in the police and military for tracking and hunting purposes, NOT combat. If any animal was more effective in combat than a human, they would be used in combat, plain and simple. And as far as I know, warfare never included beastmasters.

Plenty of people used dogs for war. Vikings, Franks, Danes, Mongols, various celts and german tribes, to name a few. Sure the dogs were closer to wolves, but they were trained for war.
And you really never saw a police dog take someone down ? They are trained not to kill. Otherwise they can tear a throat in a single bite. And if they can't tear your throat, they'll use their claws to open your belly, and kill you, albeit slower and more painfully.

Attack dogs and wolves are no jokes. They don't hunt human because they have easier prey. Humans are more dangerous. Also, we will retaliate, and they know that. They attack them when desperate though.

And yet there's a dozen in-tact science labs and not a single ancient house, apartment, temple, government, military, power, or water infrastructure. So why then is almost the entire map covered in impassable mountains and cliffs? It's not space that's even buildable, it's not space that tells a story, so why is it even there?

When developing something you don't have unlimited time and manpower. What you add to the game takes hours to make. A single building need an inital artwork, then build the meshes, then add textures and that takes hours. If that building is not useful besides "looking realist" somewhere, it's entirely secondary. Ruins have a purpose. They are meant for reasearch and looting, on top of their use for making the world of kenshi more lively.
Houses and temple might look cool, but what purpose would they serve ? What feature would have to be cut so they can be added, since time is a limit ?
Also, it would remove a part of the mystery surrounding the old empires.

We have tons of stories around. They just take a different form than building. Grab a skeleton with you for unique dialogues. Check the ground itself and the wreckage. The books around, or the dialogues with several NPCs.

[Nadlug]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

If a sword barely injures them, a bow isn't going to do a whole lot.

You also have to consider human hunters use Ambush and supprise, not strength and mobility to hunt/survive in the wild. Which dosent nessisarly translate well to the game.

As for animals attacking on sight. For a start wild animals are and always will be unpredictable. It all depends on if the animals fight or flight responce. There are situations though where a a Fight reaction is more likely. Any animal protecting its offspring, or one that feels that it cant escape will fight.

Here in Texas the state bird is the Mocking Bird. Its very common to see groups of Mocking Birds attacking/harassing anything that comes remotely near the vacinity of thier nests, Usualy housecats but I have had a few of them fly by and peck my head while out for a walk. The birds themselves are harmless but never-the-less they do not back down.

Bears and wolves will also fierecely protect their offspring/homes and both have been known to attack humans out of hunger when game was scarce.

[NotFuji]

Originally posted by Erei:

(dogs)

Let me remind you that the average (Earth) dog, even some wolves, are small enough that you can literally pick the thing up and throw it across the room. Dogs do try to bite people's necks off, but humans unlike other animals, have arms to put in the way.

(map stuff)

The updates haven't included any new art for months, the dev team isn't one person. And yes, development takes several hours, even days to make one building, but you forget that it's their job and source of income to do so.

[Aurelia]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Let me remind you that the average (Earth) dog, even some wolves, are small enough that you can literally pick the thing up and throw it across the room. Dogs do try to bite people's necks off, but humans unlike other animals, have arms to put in the way.

I think you mean -domesticated- (humanized) dogs. Try that with a wild dog, and you'll lose the ability to use your arm.


It is actually strange to see people still saying the bonedogs are too difficult. The claims you're stating above are akin to what they used to be in their first rendition, but since then, they have been so nerfed that a new recruit with high quality plate with 1's in stats can down one without worry. A naked person with a stick can go toe to toe with one, provided they have around 20's in stats. Dust bandits take bonedogs down quite frequently, and they aren't really wearing what you'd call armor, or wielding anything that wasn't pulled from a scrapyard. Patrols of holy nation don't seem to worry much about wolves, and even though i hate HN, early on in gameplay, they are quite useful for eliminating bonedogs as a threat to you.

Both equipment and stats matter, so it's curious what combination of equipment and stats of a human character you're comparing against a bonedog, as their threat becomes obsolete fairly quickly. They are one of the weakest animals currently in the game, and typically they only really match up well against starving bandits and cannibals. Both of which are both unequipped and unskilled.

[NotFuji]

Originally posted by Luminaire:

(more dogs)

Hey, better than your neck!

But maybe, honestly I haven't played in a while (some time around the martial arts update.)
I used to have to savescum like mad because my level 20-30 chain+leather wearing goons would constantly have bonedogs spawn right on top of them and die 100% of the time.

[Nemund]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Hey, better than your neck!

But maybe, honestly I haven't played in a while (some time around the martial arts update.)
I used to have to savescum like mad because my level 20-30 chain+leather wearing goons would constantly have bonedogs spawn right on top of them and die 100% of the time.

You may be remembering the bugged bonedogs where they gained 5 points of skill (or huge amounts) every time they bit someone for some reason, so bone dogs were all running around with 100 skills.

[Temper]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Let me remind you that the average (Earth) dog, even some wolves, are small enough that you can literally pick the thing up and throw it across the room. Dogs do try to bite people's necks off, but humans unlike other animals, have arms to put in the way.

When I was 25 and in my prime fitness wise (undefeated regional champion:Zen Do Kai) I worked for the local council as water meter maintenance.I was stalked and attacked (unprovoked) by two Doberman dogs. (the dogs were protecting their marked territory)

Your arms aren't going to do jack against two large fully grown dogs,I carried a long shafted Spade and it was barely a defense.Only one dog needs to get hold of your neck for less than 5 seconds and that will be your end,or pehaps one will cripple you via heel tendon bight ... then you're finished as well.

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Still, there isn't an animal on the face of the earth that will attack you on sight besides humanity

Depending on circumstance the list of animals,both large and small,that can and will attack a human on sight is quite extensive and many people have been killed by these attacks or died due to later complications related to the injuries ..... and will continue to be killed by animal attacks due to ignorance and/or stupidity on the humans behalf.

EDIT: Sorry for needling this one discussion point everyone.I had some first hand input about *Man Vs Dog* and interaction with various wild animals I thought relevant to share.

Don't much care about any of the other shinanigans mentioned in OP or thereafter.

=)

[Nadlug]

Originally posted by Luminaire:

they have been so nerfed that a new recruit with high quality plate with 1's in stats can down one without worry.

I wouldent say they are that weak, but they certanly arnt like they used to be back in Alpha.

[Erei]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Let me remind you that the average (Earth) dog, even some wolves, are small enough that you can literally pick the thing up and throw it across the room. Dogs do try to bite people's necks off, but humans unlike other animals, have arms to put in the way.

The average dog on Earth is not a war dog. Most of the breed used are exctinct, on purpose, because they were dangerous. Not because the animals were actually hostile, but because just like a bear or a lion, they can kill in a heartbeat, without willing to, for example while playing.

A dog half the size of a human is not going to be thrown accross the room, especially when it's genetically engineered (over centuries of careful breeding) maw is locked on you.

As I said, if the animal can't bit the throat, it will cut open your belly. If you protect it to, he will attack elsewhere (groin for example), until there is an opening.

I just leave that here :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_in_warfare

If a seasoned warrior in armor in the antiquity was able to be killed by a dog, I strongly doubt that's the kind of puppy you can send accross a room.

Ingame the bonedogs are quite big, and apparently with anexoskeleton of some sort. I have no doubt they would be really heavy.

[NotFuji]

Originally posted by Erei:

I just leave that here :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_in_warfare

I don't know where you got any of that from that article...
Nothing in there says the dogs were used to kill people.

Releasing them on people who don't want to hurt dogs? Sure! Using them to break formations? You bet! Faithful companions of generals and officers? Definitely! Hunting down stone age natives in the jungle? Yep!

Murderous war beasts? No...

[Erei]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Originally posted by Erei:

I just leave that here :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_in_warfare

I don't know where you got any of that from that article...
Nothing in there says the dogs were used to kill people.

Releasing them on people who don't want to hurt dogs? Sure! Using them to break formations? You bet! Faithful companions of generals and officers? Definitely! Hunting down stone age natives in the jungle? Yep!

Murderous war beasts? No...

120 BC: Bituito, king of the Arvernii, attacked a small force of Romans led by the consul Fabius, using just the dogs he had in his army.
1500s: Mastiffs and other large breeds were used extensively by Spanish conquistadors against Native Americans.

And what do you think dogs did to break a formation ? Pee on the hoplites sandals ? They likely jumped and pounced at them, and I'd bet that wasn't for a hug.

I'm really surprised you don't even know the biggest dogs are actually stronger than a man, and that dogs used to be breed for war. War, not cuddle the enemy.

Wikipedia mention examples of recorded uses of dogs, mostly to show all their uses. They don't go specific on killing.

The fact dogs are not armies on their own is kinda obvious. They were used as terror weapons, hunting and support. But they were not the puppy you send flying. Really.


Anyway, it's pointless, you are convinced a dog/wolf can't harm a man. Keep it going, I let you push aside the facts and link and sources I provide for the nothingness you provide.

[NotFuji]

Since when has something being a terror weapon ever stopped anyone from using it?

It's not like the Romans, the Celts, and the Gauls all sat down and had a little Geneva Convention to agree that using dogs in battle is too much unnecessary bloodshed.

[Erei]

Originally posted by 🐍₊:

Since when has something being a terror weapon ever stopped anyone from using it?

It's not like the Romans, the Celts, and the Gauls all sat down and had a little Geneva Convention to agree that using dogs in battle is too much unnecessary bloodshed.

I don't even understand what you mean. They used them. Your point ?