Making the Hive Prince Combat Effective?

[Proto]

Usually I now play a new playthrough with nobodies 1 of each race and one of them is a Hive Prince because they have a slightly more interesting customization to their Soldier and Drone counterparts. Only problem is Hive Prince is more of a utility character than a combat character since I've been trying to raise his toughness against the Sheks Guards and a few hits to one limb can easily kill them. So I'm wondering if they are just meant to be a utility role including the drone. Otherwise thats very disappointing.

[Squamousness]

I think that they will end up being a party face when dialogue mechanics become more important. Like, he'll have high points in persuasion and bluff and all that.

[Shidan]

Hivers in general are not made for heavy combat. Their advantages come from speed and numbers. This can make them pretty terrifying actually, but they're probably going to go down pretty quickly if hit.

But any character can fill any role. Some gain bonuses to training certain stats, but it's totally possible to use one for something it's not made for. It's something nice about Kenshi's freedom. :)

[dq_177]

They are a hive-race, their combat tactics are swarming the enemy en-masse. They aren't going to be as good one-on-one as a Human or a Shek.

Though like Shidan said any character can Git Gud through enough battles anime style.
Don't all Hivers have a passive racial bonus to their combat speed?

If combat effectiveness of the squad is your foremost concern you can just build your Prince to be a ninja thief-medic, stands back in battles and darts in to provide first aid to anyone that gets smacked down.
I've heard people using that role for a character in group battles, along with a couple of specific individuals functioning as taunting tanks who's whole purpose is to draw aggro away from less durable fighters.

[Explicitly Offensive Cuneiform]

Have you tried sneaking?

a stealth character with a high sneak and assassnation is dangerous as hell in combat.

You set the hiver to passive, and sneak, and in a brawl you have them knock out enemies while the rest of the guys are fighting.

if done correctly you can take out an entire squad of paladins with guys who only have 30s in their stats and mid level equipment.

A hiver does not have to be a sponge to be deadly, they can be a ghost.

[Proto]

Yeah swarming only works with NPCs because they can afford it. Players can't as resources are limited and at the sametime man power. In fact its easier for a player to get a bunch of greenlanders to swarm than hivers as recruiting hive characters is limited. The sneaking idea though isn't bad at all but wouldn't be bad either to make them combat effective if they end up failing and are in a quick jam.

[BOYCOTT S-T-E-A-M!]

I have two in my party.

I used one, probably a tad stupidly, as a martial artist since they are pretty fast. He was rough getting started, but now is a rather effective member of my team. He doesn't have a lot of health, but thats not much of an issue with him dodging so regularly.

My other is essentially a ninja. I have him using small blades like katanas, wakizashi, or just ninja blades. Due their dexterity bonus he attacks pretty often and blocks very often. Frequently once he hits a target, especially those with larger or slower weapons, he can effectively "stagger-lock" them by hitting so repeatedly that they can't recover enough to manage a block or a counter-attack.


They both suffer from two major drawbacks that I have to take into consideration though. Anything that can effectively hit a large area and multiple targets effectively bypasses their ability to dodge or block so such enemies can drop them quite easily. More risky is anything that can hit for large damage in a single blow (or worse as a sweeping aoe attack) such as the various mechanical spiders near ruins. Those big hits can easily drop them in an instant if they connect. Worse still if they are already injured in an area its actually possible for a heavy blow like that to kill them outright.


So overall... against human enemies they are fantastic as a fast and agile fighter. Against larger mechanical or animal enemies they typically have to be held back to let my heavies handle it.

[Stormbrooke]

Hive Prince

Combat Pros:
> Only race that gets a xp bonus to Medic
> +20% to Combat Speed, static bonus, not listed in tool tip (so fast)
> They move at +40% speed (so fast)
> They also recieve +20% to Dex xp (so they learn how to be even faster ...faster)
> They bleed only 20% of normal
> They recieve bonuses to stealth (and theivery)

Combat Cons:
> Limb strength is 75
> Blood is 50
> Strength xp is -20%
> They cannot wear shirts or shoes reducing armor resistance

Fun note: the Deadhive Prince gets +20% to melee attack xp as well

Potential Combat roles:

> Acknowledge that they are squishy and armor them up, stick them in the back lines with a Forigen Sabre and have them play dedicated healer

> Or play to their strengths, select a cutting weapon to take advantage of their dex learn rate, avoid strength based weapons, choose a weapon that is already fast to capitalize on their Combat speed (e.g. Topper aka Heavy Katana has the least defensive penalities of the Katana class). The most survivable armor is heavy (samauri for better arm protection aka swing longer, Holy chest plate for better chest/stomach and some leg coverage aka you'll end with noodle arms but you'll probably be alive) and you have the combat speed to deal with the penalities. Alternatively to stay very fast choose a medium armor like paladin helmet/plated jacket/cloth samauri pants (for added stomach protection, always samuari pants cause you can't wear shirts). You should be able to make do with this build.

> Super glass cannon build = guardless katana, assasin rags, cloth sam pants, bandana/straw hat. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR NEW PLAYERS. This build will drop in 5 seconds if you draw aggro, but can also drop enemies that don't have high cut resistance in 5 seconds. I hold this bad boy back as the fight engages, walk him around to something beasty then unleash a flurry of hits then micro manage him out of harms way again before the enemy can redirect his focus, rinse repeat if needed. Takes some skill but super effective. Fun note I also have a solider like this with a blunt weapon (soliders have no strength penalty) and beat down on armored targets the same way. This kamakazi prince also makes a great thief by the way and as someone else already mentioned assasination knockouts are overpowered.

For most players I recommend either 1 or 2, but for those of you silly enough to try there is also 3.

[Stormbrooke]

Originally posted by dq_177:

Don't all Hivers have a passive racial bonus to their combat speed?

Princes and Workers: +20%
Soliders: +10%

[Helldriver o7]

Hivers would be effective as fighters if the game allow to dodge while armed (2 RGN rolls one for blocking and another for dodging) I'm pretty disapointed we havn't that yet but i'm sure it would be a nice and realistic addition to the combat mechanic

[Grimmrog_SIG]

well, 3 of my 15 hivers are soldiers, because the game doesn't generate soldiers for me regulary, so the remaining combatants of me are princes. And honestly, princes seem to do a better job even with less general bodypart HP, thats because they can wear helmets. Head k.o's are quite often the main reaosn my soldiers go down even if the rest of them is quite halthy.

Originally posted by Maza:

Hivers would be effective as fighters if the game allow to dodge while armed (2 RGN rolls one for blocking and another for dodging) I'm pretty disapointed we havn't that yet but i'm sure it would be a nice and realistic addition to the combat mechanic

actually that isn't realistic, in a combat you will make the decision to dodge or block a strike. but one doesn't jump away and tries to block the hit as well.

my hivers do generally fine in their samurai equip with katanas. But I play a hivers only game atm.
If you have mixed people, use the hivers lighter like Stormbrooke explained.

[Helldriver o7]

Originally posted by Grimmrog_SIG:

well, 3 of my 15 hivers are soldiers, because the game doesn't generate soldiers for me regulary, so the remaining combatants of me are princes. And honestly, princes seem to do a better job even with less general bodypart HP, thats because they can wear helmets. Head k.o's are quite often the main reaosn my soldiers go down even if the rest of them is quite halthy.

Originally posted by Maza:

Hivers would be effective as fighters if the game allow to dodge while armed (2 RGN rolls one for blocking and another for dodging) I'm pretty disapointed we havn't that yet but i'm sure it would be a nice and realistic addition to the combat mechanic

actually that isn't realistic, in a combat you will make the decision to dodge or block a strike. but one doesn't jump away and tries to block the hit as well.

my hivers do generally fine in their samurai equip with katanas. But I play a hivers only game atm.
If you have mixed people, use the hivers lighter like Stormbrooke explained.

You havn't understood me (or its me?), i said 2 RGN rolls to decide if the character block (if it success he block it) dodge (if the caracter success he dodge it) and if the caracter failled the to rolls he take the hit, isnt like blocking and dodging at the same time its one or the other (or the fail) based on an succed or failled dice rolls .

And also i will add, basing the block succed on strengh modificators, and dodge one on dexterity modificators, both in addition on the current system attacker bonuses, defence score ect...


Well "in a combat you will make the decision to dodge or block a strike" as a combat sport praticioner i would say is more based on instinct/reflex conditionning than a real "decision"..

[Grimmrog_SIG]

Originally posted by Maza:

Originally posted by Grimmrog_SIG:

well, 3 of my 15 hivers are soldiers, because the game doesn't generate soldiers for me regulary, so the remaining combatants of me are princes. And honestly, princes seem to do a better job even with less general bodypart HP, thats because they can wear helmets. Head k.o's are quite often the main reaosn my soldiers go down even if the rest of them is quite halthy.



actually that isn't realistic, in a combat you will make the decision to dodge or block a strike. but one doesn't jump away and tries to block the hit as well.

my hivers do generally fine in their samurai equip with katanas. But I play a hivers only game atm.
If you have mixed people, use the hivers lighter like Stormbrooke explained.

You havn't understood me, i said 2 RGN rolls to decide if the character block (if it success he block it) dodge (if the caracter success he dodge it) and if the caracter failled the to rolls he take the hit, isnt like blocking and dodging at the same time its one or the other (or the fail) based on an succed or failled dice roll .

And also i will add, basing the block succed on strengh modificators, and dodge one on dexterity modificators

thats exactly the definition of rolling 2 dices with the condition to fail both. Which also means your attemp is to dodge and block together with the hope that at least one is successfull.

[Helldriver o7]

I don't know if you contradict me or not, bu i would say it will be implicited in the RGN mechanic (schrodinger's cat like ^^) and does not appear to show us ingame at screen,to blocking and dodging at the same time just an attemp to block (succed or failled)) "OR" to dodge (succed or failled). If you dont know what realism means in videogame, and hidden RNG to simulate variables from probability factors to make actions credible.

[Shidan]

Dodge is actually used in armed combat, but only while stumbling. It is actually very useful for avoiding a stunlock, and I try to make sure all my characters are trained in it.

[Helldriver o7]

Originally posted by Shidan:

Dodge is actually used in armed combat, but only while stumbling. It is actually very useful for avoiding a stunlock, and I try to make sure all my characters are trained in it.

But it appear weird to me that a ninja (dex maxed) had to try to block a blow from a fragment axe (from a shek str maxed) with a little katana, instead of dodging it