I am beginning to really abhorr the Artifact System.

[Marauder]

While RNG is not necessarily a bad thing in general. I've come to utterly loath the artifact system especially since important resources are currently extremly finite.

In my most recent two games. In the first ended up getting almost no ancient research books because the system decided I could go pleasure myself with a skin spider for all it cared. Ended up shelving it till more of the maps open up.

Started a new one, now after plundering all the potential spawns I have more than enough Ancient Research Books this time around but I have not found even A SINGLE Ai core. I even loaded up the map to make certain I truly got all the labs and other places, I cleared them all. Not a single AI core was generated in the entire game.

While some may go "OMFG, it's only half the map!", sure. With twice the ammount of Ai cores I would still be at zero though! Having critical research resources on an incredible low RNG chance seems to be a very, questionable choice.

[mcnostril]

I wouldn't mind being able to pay tech hunters to go on expeditions for stuff like that. Make it really expensive if necessary, but at least that way people can go the trader route and still progress.

[My What]

Honestly I don't think its as big of an issue as people make it out to be. For one you can import next to a lab or somewhere that has a good chance of spawning them, loading them up and so on.
Two when you import you have the option of keeping all your research

For the AI Core bit, once it becomes unfun to continue trying to find these I would look up where they'll spawn, then import next to their location until you get it
Last I checked they don't unlock anything very essential, unless you plan on adding variety to your diet while living in a wasteland that can't support crops, an an automated stone mine, but you'll lose out on some easy strength training for that!

[Marauder]

Originally posted by My What:

you can import

So the solution to pointless RNG is to effectively circumvent the limitations the game puts on such places by reloading and retrying to roll for one over and over again?

The moment you use "importing" as a way to play the game, which is effectively going outside the boundaries of your game to reset the entire thing as a solution you might aswell tell people to just "spawn them in using the console".

[anywhatshisname]

There's also mods. One has, AI core carriers, tough to take down, but they *do* carry AI cores. Once, they weren't spawning correctly and there was a mod to fix that. They should be now.

[johntarmac]

Originally posted by Deleth:

Originally posted by My What:

you can import

So the solution to pointless RNG is to effectively circumvent the limitations the game puts on such places by reloading and retrying to roll for one over and over again?

The moment you use "importing" as a way to play the game, which is effectively going outside the boundaries of your game to reset the entire thing as a solution you might aswell tell people to just "spawn them in using the console".

Originally posted by Deleth:

While some may go "OMFG, it's only half the map!",

Well, you could let them finish and balance it before stamping your foot.

[My What]

RNG is unfair, I got all the science books I needed through 3 imports, and I played each import pretty fully, hitting every ruin and each time making a self sufficient outpost, I'm just saying, if you're getting frustrated by it, import-scumming is a solution
Some people would have no problems with that, while others feel that it has to be one world no resets
This is just how the game is right now, and was before,
Need new recuits? Gotta import a few times to fill out your squad, especially fun in the oldland versions
Got 20 science books and an ai core this import? Gotta revive those two dead shopkeepers you stole from in the nearby city, and that REALLY helpful engineering shopkeep who died to a swarm of beakthings and bandits? Good time to import a new game
I'm fine with this, and sometimes allows me to consider a brand new game, and I think Kenshi REALLY shines once you get over that newbie squad hump
Anyway, I still think it isn't gamebreaking, I'm abit partial to thinking that its just people trying to "complete" the game as fast as possible, get all the best stuff and an impregnable fortress as soon as possible, then what? One shot everything? Fun for awhile, especially when you get a self-sufficient outpost in the foglands, and I like returning to that sense of power every so often, but I also like having to get beaten bloody and left behind in gutter territory
Perhaps do what I do, once you explored the map, did some things, make an outpost to the best of your ability, import the game, sometimes leave your goodshit behind and settle for looted bandit gear, and a good amount of food and medkits
I like filling a couple of bulls with copper alloy plates and building materials for quickstart outposts though, saves me the hassle

[Shidan]

Honestly, I think the Artifact system would be fine if they'd just make the artifacts and ruins respawn after some time. This goes for the shopkeeps that carry artifacts too, running on a separate timer than the normal shop inventory.

An in-game week for example. It would allow plenty of time to push the players to exploring more, instead of just camping the same ruin, waiting for it to respawn. But is fast enough, that by the time you've looted all the other ones, the first ones will have respawned. So you could, if you wanted, grind out all of them non-stop.

Having a random limited number of a critical item is not a good idea. Sure, importing can solve the problem. But there will come a time where importing constatnly will come with some negatives (unless they change what gets brought before then).

Importing does not bring your relationships with specific characters. Not a big deal now. But when there are consequences to your actions? When there are revenge raids, and deals made with certain people? It would all be lost. This is disruptive to immersion and the player's personal "story", and should be avoided if possible.

[Marauder]

Originally posted by johntarmac:

Well, you could let them finish and balance it before stamping your foot.

You mean stomping? It's a bit odd to pretend anyone who criticizes anything ever is somehow throwing a childish temper tantrum. That we are in beta right now and the game is being balanced and a work in progress means that right now is the exact time for feedback and criticism.

Originally posted by Shidan:

Having a random limited number of a critical item is not a good idea. + This is disruptive to immersion and the player's personal "story", and should be avoided if possible.

These two are pretty much my gripe with this. To progress these items are needed and depending on luck you can easily wind up with far to few of them which means you are forced to artificially reset your world, possibly more than once.

I think a week would be too short though. Heck might even tie the respawn to other labs. I.e when only one has been plundered it will stay empty. They could get an "Cleared" on the map related to the ancient safe lock having been opened. The moment the next lap is cleared their reset timer that could be anywhere from a week to a month starts at which point the "Cleared" is removed to let the players know which lab has respawned and if it has.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by johntarmac:

Originally posted by Deleth:

So the solution to pointless RNG is to effectively circumvent the limitations the game puts on such places by reloading and retrying to roll for one over and over again?

The moment you use "importing" as a way to play the game, which is effectively going outside the boundaries of your game to reset the entire thing as a solution you might aswell tell people to just "spawn them in using the console".

Originally posted by Deleth:

While some may go "OMFG, it's only half the map!",

Well, you could let them finish and balance it before stamping your foot.

They've made changes which were VERY unpopular in this area already. ASB used to be sold by the Hivers in Vain, but no longer. Why? Because they want you to explore and go fight the spiders in the Labs. But they DON'T give you enough books to research what you need. AI cores are the same, and Engineering Research (which is modern) shouldn't be completely gone either. We should not have to reset the game world every few in game days to get what we need to complete the research in the game! There used to be like a 3 percent chance per day of this stuff spawning in Inventory for shops, but they removed that without giving us recourse. It's a valid point.

Originally posted by Shidan:

Honestly, I think the Artifact system would be fine if they'd just make the artifacts and ruins respawn after some time. This goes for the shopkeeps that carry artifacts too, running on a separate timer than the normal shop inventory.

An in-game week for example. It would allow plenty of time to push the players to exploring more, instead of just camping the same ruin, waiting for it to respawn. But is fast enough, that by the time you've looted all the other ones, the first ones will have respawned. So you could, if you wanted, grind out all of them non-stop.

Having a random limited number of a critical item is not a good idea. Sure, importing can solve the problem. But there will come a time where importing constatnly will come with some negatives (unless they change what gets brought before then).

Importing does not bring your relationships with specific characters. Not a big deal now. But when there are consequences to your actions? When there are revenge raids, and deals made with certain people? It would all be lost. This is disruptive to immersion and the player's personal "story", and should be avoided if possible.

We've been saying the same things for a while, and I agree. It would be nice if it respawned once in a while. Maybe a week is too soon, but it feels about right. (Like how Armor King refreshes every few days instead of every day like the other shops)

Because that would give me the drive to go up to the Lost Armories, Libraries and Labs to get the treasure and fight the spiders. (Or sneak past them, get the loot and then run like hell.)

[Androschemes]

Ya, it basically forces you to import. I think they could easily keep the RNG feel by just guaranteeing the amount on the map and changing how many spawn at a given location. Kind of important you have enough, since it's your only way to progress in tech... Btw, have you tried stealing from the tech hunters in world's end? I got an ai core from them this playthrough.

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by iambatman93:

Ya, it basically forces you to import. I think they could easily keep the RNG feel by just guaranteeing the amount on the map and changing how many spawn at a given location. Kind of important you have enough, since it's your only way to progress in tech... Btw, have you tried stealing from the tech hunters in world's end? I got an ai core from them this playthrough.

Yeah, you kinda HAVE TO since it's the one MOST LIKELY to spawn. (But doesn't always)