My god, what happened to this game?

[Soondead]

I bought this ages ago and had some fun with it, roaming the desert sands and slowly building up my force by running away a lot and then striking when the odds were in my favor. Just installed it again today, and to my disappointment the game is now so completely rigged against anyone stupid enough to start it up, I have to say I'm astonished.

Instead of starting out in a proper city with, say, a shop that sells anything to replace my STICK, I have the option to talk to strangers I have no means to hire or talk to more strangers I have no means to hire.

So, I set out to maybe find some other place on the map, and find that the pathfinding is now so completely and utterly bulls**t it's impossible to get literally anywhere at all. After a few minutes of running back and forth getting nowhere, I am ofcourse sniffed out by a band of no less than 15 bandits armed to the teeth and in full body armor that apparently doesn't weigh anything at all because they could still catch up with me in no time and chop me to pieces.

...WTF?!?

[Erei]

It's not that the game is easy or hard. This game is very different than others. If you don't try to understand how it works, or try to force your own way to play, you'll fail. Miserably. And you'll be sad, call the game bad, unfair and whatnot.
But if you either know how the game works because you are a long time player, or try to bend instead of breaking, then it's easy.

[Necroscourge]

My issue with this game is the games focus on "You not being a hero" actually translates to "Here is the game, and here is you far, FAR seperated from the game world."

[Nadlug]

Originally posted by Necroscourge:

My issue with this game is the games focus on "You not being a hero" actually translates to "Here is the game, and here is you far, FAR seperated from the game world."

I dont feel seperated from the game world at all. To me its more I the player am the physical embodiment of the colelctive ambitions of the caracters i Indirectly controll.
I may issue commands and make decisions, but the caracters themselves follow thoes commands in a manner they deem nessisary and is outside of my own direct controll.

No small part of the fun is roleplaying a bit and digging deeper than the simplistic gameplay offers. Just look at anyone in this community that deeply enjoys the game. Every one of them takes pride in thier "squad" and attaches personalities to each indavidual member, or at least the squad as a whole.

[JediKnightSky]

I may come across as unsympathetic, and I am because this isnt a game for fools who rush in nor those who think a game is only for feeling like a hero.

I still play on my first character I made a while back using the holy swordsman origin.

I still recall how I managed to ambush a lone limping bandit and take their stuff. And then out of curiosity waited for them to heal up and followed them.

They lead me to about 3 or 4 more, fortunately all had injuries and with my sword I was able to take them all down. Their simple crude weapons while not a treasure provided me enough to buy food to stay alive as I honed my stealth and theiving skills in Hub.

I befriended and old man named Zill and together we survived a number of fights with small groups. sometimes barely with one of us carrying the other back to hub to recover.

Our luck really seemed to change when we found a lone ninja beaten down and plundered some solid gear including a fine pair of swords for old Zill.

I used mods like prisonder recruiting and in time as We two built up a small farm on a near by hill we began capturing a bandit here and there and our group grew and grew.

Our farm became a small communitywith a cook and a tailor, with plenty of camping beds for all who needed to rest.

Sure Ive had a bad bit of luck here and there and had to resort to a fall back save file. But I treat that as my character being psychic and dreams warning him of what not to do.

Really if you cant get your ♥♥♥♥ together on Kenshi on your first try you are not trying hard enough.

Was it the mighty sword I carried? Or was it my willingness to sneak every time I went from Hub to home and back honing my skills as a living shadow so I could travel unseen wherever I wished? I do not know but I do know this Kenshi is already amazing and I cant wait to see what it completed and polished looks like.

[Aurelia]

I'm not a fan of casuallizing Kenshi. That's one facet of the gem that is kenshi, in that it doesn't cater to the expectation that everything presented to the player should always be able to be overcome at the point it's presented. Everything is going to be "too hard" until you work up to the point that it's not - both the characters in the game, as well as the player themselves. That is one of the major gameplay elements of Kenshi, and will not be changed.



Several weeks ago I began a new game. 3/2 population sliders. I took the man and a dog start, and started in a holy farm. There was an iron deposit nearby, so i spent some time mining rocks, operating the well, and the farms, and engaging river raptors alongside the paladins to train up some stats, being cautious to disengage after taking a hit in any vital area in order to first-aid (to prevent bleedout if i did get knocked unconscious). After several ingame days, i made enough money to buy a bull, a pack, and some food. I packed up the food and whatever resources I had obtained, and headed up north to the flotsam ninja settlement, where I recruited 4-5 new people. For the next 4-5 hours, I ran around exploring the entire northeast area constantly coming under attack, constantly being wiped out, collecting parts and selling them to caravans and purchasing rations, and spending a lot of time resting in camp beds healing, all the while talking to other people, and working on a personal project outside of Kenshi. I was hardly paying attention, and neither did anyone starve, but no one died.

At some point one of my units got captured without me knowing it (because I really just wasn't paying attention..), and taken to the cannibal ruins. I only noticed because of the bars on her portrait.. I kept having her sneak and pick the locks, hiding when possible, careful not to do too much engaging, and spent the next hour moving my entire squad to the ruins (They kept getting attacked and knocked out by berserkers and other roamers). I finally managed to get my entire team locked up by the cannibals, and spent the next 3-4 hours making that upper floor my home and training ground. When my food carrier began running out of food, all of our stealth was enough at that point to get us all out of there, and back to the town on the north coast to restock, resupply, and get some relaxation time. That is where that game has left off, because I decided to start over again with a solo character raising martial arts and dodge only.

WIth that start, I ran down south into the swamp where I know i had constantly seen slavers before, with the plan of being captured by slavers, as it would be an easy way to begin my training. But, that apparently was not a good idea, because I spent around 6 hours constantly being shackled, only to have the entire slaver squad that captured me be wiped out by bloodspiders, over and over again... Never made it to their camp.
WIth my dodge around 70, my toughness at 60-70, and my martial arts around 30-40, i figured it wasn't necessary anymore.. I moved down south further to explore, and found a small UC settlement where i bought a house, became a severe pain the pants to the local UC, and accidently recruited a hiver (was someone i had freed from slavery trying to raise my lockpicking..)

There in that town, that hiver has built research, cooking, and weaponcrafting facilities in that building while I continue to run around punching UC in the face before being smashed into the ground for being an escaped slave with not enough dodge. (That is never going to go away XD )


Starting out in Kenshi to most all new players is a serious kick in the pants. It's difficult, overwhelming, and chances are high your first character(s) will die. But once you start understanding how the world works, and what it expects from you, the game actually starts to be able to be played casually. If it's difficult, instead of complaining that it's too difficult, or expecting the game to be made easier, seek out advice, or just roll with it until it clicks for you. It will work out eventually.

Originally posted by sky_tom_car:

Was it the mighty sword I carried? Or was it my willingness to sneak every time I went from Hub to home and back honing my skills as a living shadow so I could travel unseen wherever I wished? I do not know but I do know this Kenshi is already amazing and I cant wait to see what it completed and polished looks like.

That weapon is certainly no push-over weapon. Once you can start landing hits, it does make quite a significant amount of difference, but this does bring up one point that I believe was covered, and that is that regardless of Kenshi being a game designed around you needing to build your way up to just being able to survive, there are several different starts to choose from to make the game easier or harder depending on your wishes. For everything else, there's always modding.

[Chompster]

Originally posted by Necroscourge:

My issue with this game is the games focus on "You not being a hero" actually translates to "Here is the game, and here is you far, FAR seperated from the game world."

I get what you mean. You as the player in no way feel part of the world of Kenshi, imo due to how you seem to have to adhere to a ton of rules thats the NPCs don't. Combine that with a dead and utterly boring world, and you get the feeling of being a complete alien.

And no, roleplaying shouldn't be mandatory/a substitute for any of this. Here's hoping deplomacy will change that, otherwise I really don't see myself playing much more.

[Nadlug]

Originally posted by Chompster.netdip:

, imo due to how you seem to have to adhere to a ton of rules thats the NPCs don't.

Such as what exactly? The only thing i can think of is Hunger.

[drh]

Originally posted by Nadlug:

Every one of them takes pride in thier "squad" and attaches personalities to each indavidual member, or at least the squad as a whole.

Die slave mongers! All of you!

To be honest, I don't think I've ever played a game where I was completely attached to my character(s). If I get shot in GTA...meh. That was cool. If an NPC makes a snide comment to one of my squadmates in kenshi...I'm ready to destroy everything. May God have mercy on the slave monger that manages to enslave one of my characters.

[Erei]

Originally posted by sky_tom_car:

I still recall how I managed to ambush a lone limping bandit and take their stuff. And then out of curiosity waited for them to heal up and followed them.

I think all of us have this kind of story. I remember beating my first bandits party on my own, or successfully beating some slavers caravan, and being mostly alive to tells the tale (and the loots !). And more of them. I'm sure most of us have the same kind.
Stories of when we finally beat the odds. Usually involving some unfair or lucky fight, but we do it.

Those stories would not exist if you were never left half dead near the road. You would not be proud of your characters when they beat some boss to pulp, if they never where beaten senseless by some thugs a long time ago.

I'm not the kind of player who plays games like Dark Soul. I don't find them funny. But Kenshi is, IMO, at the right spot of difficulty VS reward.

[JediKnightSky]

Originally posted by Erei:

Originally posted by sky_tom_car:

I still recall how I managed to ambush a lone limping bandit and take their stuff. And then out of curiosity waited for them to heal up and followed them.

I think all of us have this kind of story. I remember beating my first bandits party on my own, or successfully beating some slavers caravan, and being mostly alive to tells the tale (and the loots !). And more of them. I'm sure most of us have the same kind.
Stories of when we finally beat the odds. Usually involving some unfair or lucky fight, but we do it.

Those stories would not exist if you were never left half dead near the road. You would not be proud of your characters when they beat some boss to pulp, if they never where beaten senseless by some thugs a long time ago.

I'm not the kind of player who plays games like Dark Soul. I don't find them funny. But Kenshi is, IMO, at the right spot of difficulty VS reward.

I can recall in that same game a larger group of bandits strolled in and a large brutal battle began with the townsfolk. I wanting to share the action charged in with loyal old Zill at my side.

The poor townsfolk involved where beaten down, as where a few bandits. soon it was just Zill and myself, and soon Zill was knocked out.

My characters left arm was disabled and was swinging wildly with his holy nodachi. with careful positioning I was usually hitting 3 of the 4 remaining bandits and connecting solidly semi regularly.

Just as My character went down Zill seemed to find a second wind for he regained his senses and stumbled to his feet. Seeing the plight of my character he rushed over and took up the mysterious sword and managed to take out 2 of the injured bandits. another fell purely too blood loss.

The last managed to connect with Zills noggin sending him to take a dirt nap, but he had bought enough time for my own character to regain his feet and take back his sword and finish the last cretin off.

this became our first real pay day. so many bandit weapons to sale. We patched up ourselves and the towns people who still lived, and helped ourselves to any good gear and clothes any knocked out had.

this allowed me to purchase the materials to begin to build a small hide away just outside of Hubs no build zone on a hill top with a mine near by.

Together Zill and I built up a small hut, a farm of hemp and wheat, a few cages to keep prisoners to turn into allies once they learned we knew a sense of mercy sorely lacking in the world.

While Zill farmed I mined, and carried the ore to Hub always sneaking, gaining strength and stealth skills. Sure it was slow and at times tedious but caution was the rule and my character grew swift and formidable.

I personally feel very attached to my game with my first character being my avatar in the world, the rest are friends and companions no different then npcs in games like baldurs gate or the like.

[stecph]

Kenshi is a great game deeper than it seems.
Among all the interesting mechanics,what IMHO makes it shine above other games is that Kenshi rewards your defeats. I am a very defensive gamer,Kenshi is the only game I play that invites me to go out there looking for trouble.
Replayability is only limited by the player's imagination.

[Fate (-{SoH}-)]

@stecph totaly 100% agree.
Other games being defeated means loading ur save or starting again while in kenshi defeat is just a small stepping stone towards victory.

[Jim's counter insurgency]

I've had my ass kicked by bandits and animals about 15 times now and I made it from one side of the swap to the other without losing a member. It's all about tactical retreat, or as I prefer to call it "Cheeseing it"

[JediKnightSky]

Originally posted by Blackular CH61:

I've had my ass kicked by bandits and animals about 15 times now and I made it from one side of the swap to the other without losing a member. It's all about tactical retreat, or as I prefer to call it "Cheeseing it"

naw brah cheesing it is when I save scum and call it a prophetic dream warning my leader.

It sounds to me like you just kept your group tight and had plenty of med kits to keep everyone alive.

Let me guess you had half your party being carried by the other half by the time you got them to safety?

[Fate (-{SoH}-)]

Personaly i only got 1 guy these days.
Playing vanilla, default settings.
he has 50-70 in all combat stats tho to be fair i started and progressed him back in the desert.

Tho my strongest squads 10 guys from 2013 back then made a settlement with them and got the best weps possible these days the weps are unmatched.