Move speed slowdown while attacking - not a fan

[PizzaTime]

I consider myself no stranger to this genre, having played so many survivor/action roguelikes. I have to say off the bat, this functionality rubbed me the wrong way. Seems counter intuitive to use offense to survive when it will slow you down to get hit/killed.

I'm liking everything else so far, so much potential here.

[Phitness]

this also makes the move speed stat completely useless for every single class and build cus you never stop attacking.

[Cra$hBandoLoot]

i think it should be able to be stat changed with items like movement speed/attack or spell speed should lower the slow down as well, like having high amounts of ^ should give you a percentage or they could lower it a bit so that its not a mechanic, i honestly like it, it makes it so that you have to aim or dodge properly before something hits you, to me it's like counter attacking unless your ranged.

[PizzaTime]

Thanks guys who chimed in, glad to see I'm not the only one. There are a lot of "unga bunga" enemies that I think will really mess us up because of this slowdown. (yes, sometimes I switch to manual so I can run sometimes)

[DVerde]

Originally posted by PizzaTime:

Thanks guys who chimed in, glad to see I'm not the only one. There are a lot of "unga bunga" enemies that I think will really mess us up because of this slowdown. (yes, sometimes I switch to manual so I can run sometimes)

THat's the point of the slowdown, so you do more than just hold the attack button down like some caveman, and this is why the Justice Dash skill allows you to ignore it.

[Kaen]

Agree makes it feel more clumsy and slow as it has to be

[Vigilance]

Stop using auto attack and just play the game.

Originally posted by Kamikaze:

i think it should be able to be stat changed with items like movement speed/attack or spell speed should lower the slow down as well, like having high amounts of ^ should give you a percentage or they could lower it a bit so that its not a mechanic, i honestly like it, it makes it so that you have to aim or dodge properly before something hits you, to me it's like counter attacking unless your ranged.

The slowdown is affected by move speed. The slowdown is a percentage of your actual speed, not a lock to a specific speed. That's one of the reasons Gem High is so good, the problem is just that outside of that one blessing you can't really raise your speed enough to even notice a difference whether moving at normal speed or attack slowdown speed. Justice's dash blessing and a certain shrine both temporarily remove the slow down entirely, as well.

[Cra$hBandoLoot]

Originally posted by Vigilance:

Stop using auto attack and just play the game.

Originally posted by Kamikaze:

i think it should be able to be stat changed with items like movement speed/attack or spell speed should lower the slow down as well, like having high amounts of ^ should give you a percentage or they could lower it a bit so that its not a mechanic, i honestly like it, it makes it so that you have to aim or dodge properly before something hits you, to me it's like counter attacking unless your ranged.

The slowdown is affected by move speed. The slowdown is a percentage of your actual speed, not a lock to a specific speed. That's one of the reasons Gem High is so good, the problem is just that outside of that one blessing you can't really raise your speed enough to even notice a difference whether moving at normal speed or attack slowdown speed. Justice's dash blessing and a certain shrine both temporarily remove the slow down entirely, as well.

? why you saying this to me? i said i liked it. if it scales with stats already, then its okay, all it may need is more percentages? i feel like movement speed should be given in % instead of +

[Zoid13]

Originally posted by Phitness:

this also makes the move speed stat completely useless for every single class and build cus you never stop attacking.

It doesn't make it useless. it interacts with different stats and buffs. The slowdown is a percentage of your actual speed it doesn't lock you TO a speed. that's why the different characters are faster and slower than each other while attacking.

things that interact with it
---------------------------------------
god boons;
Leigong - haste
Justice - Celestial Wings
Time - Gem High

gear;
Hasted +X Movement Speed
Agile +X% Movement Speed
Relentless +X Less Attack Movement Penalty

weapons with unique procs;
Nixi Jackrabbit - Sugar Rush: Whenever you dash there is a chance you gain increased movement speed for a limited duration Chance: 28% Duration: 3sec Movement Speed: +100%

shrines;
Stone of Stamina: Wing - You feel unimpeded. Movement penalty for attacking is reduced to 0%
and many others that offer flat +X Movement Speed

heroes;
Skadi - The Sign of The Wyvern
---------------------------------------

Could the penalty be adjusted? sure!
keep in mind this is act 1 and Tier 1 of gear.
as the tiers of gear and acts continue items that have;
Agile +X% Movement Speed
Relentless +X Less Attack Movement Penalty
are going to have increased values to counteract a lot of these current 'negative restrictions' as part of the progressions system.

and for some fun with movement speed with Nixi (skip to about 2/3 through the vid :P)
Jackrabbit dagger OP fun lol
https://youtu.be/LgCciV5eFuQ
this is not an argument against adjusting the penalty and im aware this is 1 rare item for 1 character. just watch and laugh a little :P

[EnjoyNerf]

The penalty is OK

[Cujo]

I think there absolutely should be a movement slowdown or the whole game balance falls apart - enemies are very easily kitable considering they have to stop to do any attack.

However, I think that the movement slowdown should be less punishing and less of a percentage of your overall speed to encourage more movement stacking that isn't just Gem High, since that's the only really noticeable one so far.

[Dregor]

The MS penalty is fine. They just need to add more gear/increase how often the stat shows up to offset the penalty so you can decide if you want to stat for that or not. I think I've only ever seen 1 piece of gear with that stat on it.

[heraldbalthazar]

I quit playing the game because of this mechanic. You can not stop attacking. Bosses will fling attacks faster than your dash cooldown. You end up eating attacks for no reason. Everything becomes a stat check. Boring.

[PizzaTime]

Originally posted by DVerde:

Originally posted by PizzaTime:

Thanks guys who chimed in, glad to see I'm not the only one. There are a lot of "unga bunga" enemies that I think will really mess us up because of this slowdown. (yes, sometimes I switch to manual so I can run sometimes)

THat's the point of the slowdown, so you do more than just hold the attack button down like some caveman, and this is why the Justice Dash skill allows you to ignore it.

So game is balanced around 1 power/mod? Clearly DMD takes influence from Hades. Many regard the Athena dash there, if you're familiar, as pretty much key to a winning run but so many have done without. I just hope as am still new to DMD, that it gets better and more varied because off the bat, as I said, this stood out to me as a problem area.

I knew from the start they wanted some manual input in the matter, but then why even have an auto toggle? Many newer players (to the genre) would not pick uip on it. And as @heraldbalthazar said, You can not stop attacking. Good luck "outrunning" enemies like the suicide oozes and what not once you're in the "box". You have to kill them first.

[PizzaTime]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

Originally posted by Phitness:

this also makes the move speed stat completely useless for every single class and build cus you never stop attacking.

It doesn't make it useless. it interacts with different stats and buffs. The slowdown is a percentage of your actual speed it doesn't lock you TO a speed. that's why the different characters are faster and slower than each other while attacking.

things that interact with it
---------------------------------------
god boons;
Leigong - haste
Justice - Celestial Wings
Time - Gem High

gear;
Hasted +X Movement Speed
Agile +X% Movement Speed
Relentless +X Less Attack Movement Penalty

weapons with unique procs;
Nixi Jackrabbit - Sugar Rush: Whenever you dash there is a chance you gain increased movement speed for a limited duration Chance: 28% Duration: 3sec Movement Speed: +100%

shrines;
Stone of Stamina: Wing - You feel unimpeded. Movement penalty for attacking is reduced to 0%
and many others that offer flat +X Movement Speed

heroes;
Skadi - The Sign of The Wyvern
---------------------------------------

Could the penalty be adjusted? sure!
keep in mind this is act 1 and Tier 1 of gear.
as the tiers of gear and acts continue items that have;
Agile +X% Movement Speed
Relentless +X Less Attack Movement Penalty
are going to have increased values to counteract a lot of these current 'negative restrictions' as part of the progressions system.

and for some fun with movement speed with Nixi (skip to about 2/3 through the vid :P)
Jackrabbit dagger OP fun lol
https://youtu.be/LgCciV5eFuQ
this is not an argument against adjusting the penalty and im aware this is 1 rare item for 1 character. just watch and laugh a little :P

Thanks for this. It's good to see that there are many options down to line to counteract this design. Am new to DMD since i just picked it up during the sale, but as I said am no stranger to the genre.

That being said, am really enjoying the game but I just hope this design/mechanic was not made a point of itemization /power choice going forward. Surely in late game it will not be as troublesome, but it looks like others are finding this decision odd as well.

[Zoid13]

Originally posted by PizzaTime:

Originally posted by DVerde:

THat's the point of the slowdown, so you do more than just hold the attack button down like some caveman, and this is why the Justice Dash skill allows you to ignore it.

So game is balanced around 1 power/mod? Clearly DMD takes influence from Hades. Many regard the Athena dash there, if you're familiar, as pretty much key to a winning run but so many have done without. I just hope as am still new to DMD, that it gets better and more varied because off the bat, as I said, this stood out to me as a problem area.

I knew from the start they wanted some manual input in the matter, but then why even have an auto toggle? Many newer players (to the genre) would not pick uip on it. And as @heraldbalthazar said, You can not stop attacking. Good luck "outrunning" enemies like the suicide oozes and what not once you're in the "box". You have to kill them first.

with merris in particular with her Timespace sign + Time s warped strike and gem high can completely ignore the dash button. its actually detrimental to dash as it interrupts your attack which may make the gem high buff to drop which will slow your move and attack speed back to normal :)

as for the Oozes every melee character can simply walk in a large circle with the auto attack on attacking and chipping away at the group following you and not get hit. if your damage isn't sufficient you'll need a dash now and then to get back ahead of the pack.

with Times OP gem high every character can just stand still and destroy the whole Ooze waves

its early access. there's some tweaks that need doing :)

Originally posted by PizzaTime:

Thanks for this. It's good to see that there are many options down to line to counteract this design. Am new to DMD since i just picked it up during the sale, but as I said am no stranger to the genre.

That being said, am really enjoying the game but I just hope this design/mechanic was not made a point of itemization /power choice going forward. Surely in late game it will not be as troublesome, but it looks like others are finding this decision odd as well.

most of the avoiding attacks issues vanish with a little gear and learning which attacks to get early to bolster your damage / and attack speed early to clear the 'problem waves'
its more efficient to destroy the enemies than it is to move faster for the most part (unless you're Merris or Nixi and can do both with Time and or Nixi's dagger :P

you can alternately use Winter as a 3rd god to slow everything indirectly making you faster. Winter isnt a good damage god and doesn't do well on her own but shes great for control and can massively boost the damage output of the other gods (later in a run)