Gear showcase *Spoilers*

[margenov]

I'm sick of people saying there is no progression. I admit it can be better, but saying there is nothing infuriates me. I'm gonna show some of the more interesting item choices that are currently available, maybe that will lower the amount of whining I see.
https://i.imgur.com/DVoOLwx.png

These are the items I have on right now plus a couple I've reserved for later. I have some other interesting ones in my stash.

I ask others to share their powerful and/or interesting items so other people can see as well ( if they want to of course.

[Auburok]

Someone in the discord linked this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1125880352620158996/1174705442417557585/Luck_item.png?ex=656890b2&is=65561bb2&hm=443ccf2db803e012ad5a1e405fcbc16afcbd863a1f7d1852e1633f6074157a0c&

I've yet to get that lucky, but this so far has been my favorite for my Avoron summoner build:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3084334329

[Auburok]

Originally posted by margenov:

Can you add me on discord Auburok and invite me to the discord there? handle is margenov

I clicked on the button in-game on the main menu, should add you immediately.

[Skygrinder]

Don't stress over it. Most people playing this have come from VS or some clone of it. So anything that alters the formula probably doesn't sit well with them.

Sadly, you've just shown endgame stats sticks there in your screenshot.

Here's a couple of interesting ones that can be build-defining, especially if we get these effects on mythic gear to use when altering difficulty with star crux.

https://imgur.com/a/pl2SCub

I also got this sword called "Hack & Slash", it's a unique with a flair text, just like some of these in my screenshot and it's basically just a sword with larger than usual attack speed and attack damage modifiers for a rare. (25% aspeed and 40% attack damage or something like that)

Anyway, looking forward to more unique gear to be added with special effects that aren't just stats sticks. There's a decent amount of them already, but we're just in EA, so I'm happy with what we've got so far.

I've already gotten my money's worth with nearly 20h of fun and haven't even touched star crux yet.

[hajabuba]

I got insane helm yesterday, like really INSANE. https://imgur.com/a/GkH0aLr

Also got nice body, made me go from something like 3% to 46% evasion. https://imgur.com/a/kaYiqNb

[Cryptic]

Dude that's not metaprogression. Gear drop rate increase from buffing enemies is not metaprogression.

Things like paying x gold for a permanent health boost across all characters would be.

Op, you might want to look into other games that actually have legit metaprogression

[hajabuba]

Originally posted by Auburok:

Someone in the discord linked this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1125880352620158996/1174705442417557585/Luck_item.png?ex=656890b2&is=65561bb2&hm=443ccf2db803e012ad5a1e405fcbc16afcbd863a1f7d1852e1633f6074157a0c&

I've yet to get that lucky, but this so far has been my favorite for my Avoron summoner build:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3084334329

You can have multiple dragons btw, i got staff and helm of mage, was rocking with 2 dragons lol.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by hajabuba:

Originally posted by Auburok:

Someone in the discord linked this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1125880352620158996/1174705442417557585/Luck_item.png?ex=656890b2&is=65561bb2&hm=443ccf2db803e012ad5a1e405fcbc16afcbd863a1f7d1852e1633f6074157a0c&

I've yet to get that lucky, but this so far has been my favorite for my Avoron summoner build:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3084334329

You can have multiple dragons btw, i got staff and helm of mage, was rocking with 2 dragons lol.

I got the green dragon on my sorceress and I will say that it feels like a permanent upgrade for her. It makes life a lot easier and less lonely

[margenov]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Dude that's not metaprogression. Gear drop rate increase from buffing enemies is not metaprogression.

Things like paying x gold for a permanent health boost across all characters would be.

Op, you might want to look into other games that actually have legit metaprogression

I've played more of those games than you have ( and likely more hours as well ). I know full well what metaprogression is. This game goes about it in a different way at the moment.
Will that change? Maybe
Is it a deal breaker if it doesn't change ? Not really

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by margenov:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Dude that's not metaprogression. Gear drop rate increase from buffing enemies is not metaprogression.

Things like paying x gold for a permanent health boost across all characters would be.

Op, you might want to look into other games that actually have legit metaprogression

I've played more of those games than you have ( and likely more hours as well ). I know full well what metaprogression is. This game goes about it in a different way at the moment.
Will that change? Maybe
Is it a deal breaker if it doesn't change ? Not really

"Oh yeah?! Well I've got..."

You have no idea who I am or what I play lol. Please don't make assumptions.

This game has very, VERY light and simplistic metaprogression. To the point many are not calling it metaprogression at all. Myself included.

We need small but permanent upgrades that affect all characters beyond just one trait being able to be selected and gear. Halls of torment does it better.

I like this more than ANY of the other games in the genre and I'VE PLAYED THEM ALL. This one is the best by far imo but it needs more. More content, add proper meta, and we'll have an absolute gem. Right now, it's pretty damn good but could be better. It's ea. I'm sure it will get there.

[Auburok]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

I like this more than ANY of the other games in the genre and I'VE PLAYED THEM ALL.

pix of Sexy Mystic Survivors or it didn't happen.

Jokes aside, meta progression will definitely make this easier. That said, most meta progression is so absolutely ho-hum boring. I do hope that, whatever is added, isn't yet another "convert gold into perma buffs" thing.

When Hades did it, it was sort of novel. Vampire Survivors sort of popularized putting it's bland, uniform "don't worry kids, you'll be able to get everything" sort of progression into these sorts of games and it's been cruise control for uninteresting ever since.

Maybe if they have a "meta progression" skill tree where you can fail your way to success on individual characters to give it that classic ARPG flavor. It'll be a shame if it's literally just the same old tired gold dump mechanic, though.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Auburok:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

I like this more than ANY of the other games in the genre and I'VE PLAYED THEM ALL.

pix of Sexy Mystic Survivors or it didn't happen.

Jokes aside, meta progression will definitely make this easier. That said, most meta progression is so absolutely ho-hum boring. I do hope that, whatever is added, isn't yet another "convert gold into perma buffs" thing.

When Hades did it, it was sort of novel. Vampire Survivors sort of popularized putting it's bland, uniform "don't worry kids, you'll be able to get everything" sort of progression into these sorts of games and it's been cruise control for uninteresting ever since.

Maybe if they have a "meta progression" skill tree where you can fail your way to success on individual characters to give it that classic ARPG flavor. It'll be a shame if it's literally just the same old tired gold dump mechanic, though.

Damnit you got me. I didn't play that one.

What I meant was all the big, good ones.

I do agree to a point. Hopefully it will actually be interesting. I don't mind the gold conversion thing into upgrades, but I do agree that it would be cooler if it had a twist on it that is actually unique. I think it would be fine to keep gold for gear only and then maybe add a separate currency or perhaps just counters or something for stuff you collect during a run. Maybe kills, maybe something sort of like crafting ingredients even though I hate that idea in general, I don't know. Just ideas

[Cryptic]

One thing that I think would be cool to add a little bit more of an interesting flavor to the Meta progression system would be maybe make it so you have to collect kills of certain types of enemies for different upgrades. For example, maybe if you kill x amount of slimes, you can get a very very low passive health regeneration. I don't know, call it slime regeneration. Then if you kill x amount of skeletons, you could get something that makes it so enemies don't do as much damage to you. If you kill so many of those shield things, maybe you can get a passive armor boost. If you kill so many ghosts, you get a little bit more evasion... So on. It could give you a counter for all of those when you are in the lobby or the chamber or whatever you want to call the base section.

So let's say for example the first upgrade is kill a thousand skeletons and you will permanently get a little bit of a damage boost or something like that I don't know. I'm just spitballing here.

[Urza]

game does not need global stat buffs as meta progression

the gear is fine

[Auburok]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

So let's say for example the first upgrade is kill a thousand skeletons and you will permanently get a little bit of a damage boost or something like that I don't know. I'm just spitballing here.

Can't tell if you're serious, as that's right back into mediocrity.

That'd be like getting a bonus to killing skeletons in Diablo, a normal gameplay activity. Equipment is already taking most of the purpose of "PowerUps" from VS clones, with the added benefit of going way outside the bounds of it with procs or other interesting additions. Those "meta progression" upgrades in "big, good ones" end up being statistically insignificant garbo such as:

• Raises inflicted Damage by 5% per rank (max +25%).
  
• Reduces incoming Damage by 1 per rank (max -3)
  
• Augments Max Health by 10% per rank (max +30%)
  
• Recovers 0.1 HP per rank (max 0.5 HP) per second.
  
• Uses weapons 2.5% faster per rank (max 5%).
  
• Augments area of attacks by 5% per rank (max +10%).

It is absolutely mind-boggling people are harping on these things considering how minimal the impact is in those "big, good ones". Meta progression in those games is absolutely pointless, as those games are designed to be super easy on purpose. You're not obtaining an AFK build in these games because of metaprogression, it's because they were designed to be easy based on the super flashy item interactions that do things like delete everything on the screen and vacuum up all the experience, or make you invulnerable to OHK enemies.

Death Must Die is obviously taking huge cues from ARPGs, and, not sure if you've really delved into those but: they tend to be gear first, skill points second. Top end is building around meta gear, or making niche builds around fun items—thus far it appears the game is leaning into the former since there are no item sets, etc.

The most logical thing that would fit into what's already here is probably going to look like a simplified skill tree that will let you alter a couple of things in meaningful ways, like perhaps changing the attack for a character, or a choice of a survival assistance that makes thematic sense with the classes that they are attached to. If done right, it will sate the "metaprogression" purists that think small incremental stat boosts are what they need to get out of the way of an attack.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Auburok:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

So let's say for example the first upgrade is kill a thousand skeletons and you will permanently get a little bit of a damage boost or something like that I don't know. I'm just spitballing here.

Can't tell if you're serious, as that's right back into mediocrity.

That'd be like getting a bonus to killing skeletons in Diablo, a normal gameplay activity. Equipment is already taking most of the purpose of "PowerUps" from VS clones, with the added benefit of going way outside the bounds of it with procs or other interesting additions. Those "meta progression" upgrades in "big, good ones" end up being statistically insignificant garbo such as:

• Raises inflicted Damage by 5% per rank (max +25%).
  
• Reduces incoming Damage by 1 per rank (max -3)
  
• Augments Max Health by 10% per rank (max +30%)
  
• Recovers 0.1 HP per rank (max 0.5 HP) per second.
  
• Uses weapons 2.5% faster per rank (max 5%).
  
• Augments area of attacks by 5% per rank (max +10%).

It is absolutely mind-boggling people are harping on these things considering how minimal the impact is in those "big, good ones". Meta progression in those games is absolutely pointless, as those games are designed to be super easy on purpose. You're not obtaining an AFK build in these games because of metaprogression, it's because they were designed to be easy based on the super flashy item interactions that do things like delete everything on the screen and vacuum up all the experience, or make you invulnerable to OHK enemies.

Death Must Die is obviously taking huge cues from ARPGs, and, not sure if you've really delved into those but: they tend to be gear first, skill points second. Top end is building around meta gear, or making niche builds around fun items—thus far it appears the game is leaning into the former since there are no item sets, etc.

The most logical thing that would fit into what's already here is probably going to look like a simplified skill tree that will let you alter a couple of things in meaningful ways, like perhaps changing the attack for a character, or a choice of a survival assistance that makes thematic sense with the classes that they are attached to. If done right, it will sate the "metaprogression" purists that think small incremental stat boosts are what they need to get out of the way of an attack.

My main point was it would be different than just dumping in gold. That's all. No, I don't think it would necessarily be better but it might be a bit more interesting and have you actually set some self driven goals besides "horde gold, git gud"

I think the progression from those games is good. I enjoy it. Obviously many other people do too. I think we could get the best of both worlds like how halls of torment did it. Do I want an exact copy from HOT? no. But they made it unique and it is one of the better games in the genre.

Vs is fun but lazy and overly simplified imo