How does it compare with "Total Annihilation"?

[WDMeaun]

I loved Total Annihilation (and later Supreme Commander, but Supreme Commander 2 was an utter failure).
This for a few reasons:
- Graphics (for that time absolutely great) are more than good enough and allow good performance
- Epic scale, I can remember having hundreds vs hundreds airplanes, while having a nuke race. (I managed to get 1 more nuke and finally won)
- Every week there was a new unit release (official ones). Enough variety already, but you could expand the game for free every week with good content (and there was the community)

Supreme Commander was good, also big scale and decent graphics (no more free giveaways, but who does that anymore)
Supreme Commander 2 is the only game, I actually tried to get a refund for. The scale was ridiculously small. (might've patched this, but still terrible compared with TA1)
Dont know much more about 2, but I don't think you had a big variety at all (do not code for consoles for this kind of game).

How is Planetary Annihilation compared to Total Annihilation 1 (+- 17 years old!).

- The video shows relatively small area's (small planetoids, tiny moons).
- I heard a head developer talk about not using a strategic radar/map.. so user interface/gameplay wise I am a bit scared. (hopefully that guy did not make too many decisions)
- Might have been a 'kickstarter' idea, but the initial amount to join the Alpha was ridiculous high. (do not mind paying for good content, but starting off with such a high price does not give good hope. Release price seems normal)
- They seem to focus on the flying moon concept, which is one of the least interesting gameplay options for me. I like strategizing, building outward bases, launch large confusion attacks.. not even really liked nukes in all the earlier games.
How does the gameplay compare with its 17 old predecessor? (TA was quite nifty for its time, allowing multiple waypoints / starting waypoints etcetera)
Also, how is the variety of units / buildings? (just a few basic units, or also the possibility to use hybrids, every single type for each terrain, being air/water/land..)

conclusion: I loved and still love Total Annihilation, which still exceeds modern RTS game 17 years later. (yes, I do not care about having a prettier explosion with alpha-ier shades)
The head developer, the pricing, single focus in gameplay video's and the always online DRM.. warn me for a Supreme Commander 2 misbuy. (the always online DRM versus Cavedog's free giveaways.. be ashamed, you simple marketeers)

[WDMeaun]

Funny thing is.. I cant remember seeing water/underwater scenes.. Also "will implement offline mode in a later patch" is just saddening. The little you lose from piracy is not worting disrespecting your clients.
Be smart in your online gameplay and most people will go for the legal option. (you'll lose a big of profit to the offline singleplayer pirates, but I would say it's a better signal to the community than not allowing offline play at all).
Never, ever, give your marketeers power to actually decide . Never seen that go well.. (I'm talking about personal work-related experience, not specific game development)

[zgrssd]

Graphics - not on the scale of SupCom. They are keept simple to allow fluid gameplay. More on the Achron side of things. Not that you see much of the units with the normal zoomout anyway.
But you can fully mod the textures used by your Client. Somebody already made a Xi-skin mod, for example:
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/xiphid-remenant-race-skin-mod-creation-recruitment.63348/

Scale: beat sup com without breaking a sweat. As much as 30k units have been in the game at once (but at really slow game speed). You will be able to set a unit limit later on. At least that is part of the plan. Currently it is limited to 10 players, but they had up to 40 back in the beta and there is not going to be a (relevant) player cap in the long run.
Using x64 and multithreading it is perfectly set up to use everything that is going to come in the hardware area.
As the devs say the only questions is: How big a server do you have to run this?

Nuke races exist too. There were a bit bad in beta, but now they are a lategame thing.


Regular upates:
Up to 100 units are planned but at unknown release intervall. there is only one stock faction/unit set, but multipel factions with different units are supported via server mods.
Currently getting the ChronoCam jump in and offline mode working is the problem.


There are a lot of medium sized planets. The really big ones are not yet avalible. Smashable stuff tends to be on the smaller side.

[zgrssd]

- The video shows relatively small area's (small planetoids, tiny moons).
Here is a beta time 5x4 FFA video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRRqf8BZjC4

- I heard a head developer talk about not using a strategic radar/map.. so user interface/gameplay wise I am a bit scared. (hopefully that guy did not make too many decisions)
There is a "system map" and the system orbits are held stricly in 2D, so at least some orrientation.
You can also watch areas via sub windows and there will be multi-monitor support.
A fully 3D planet does not lends itself to a classical mini-map.

- Might have been a 'kickstarter' idea, but the initial amount to join the Alpha was ridiculous high. (do not mind paying for good content, but starting off with such a high price does not give good hope. Release price seems normal)
You paid more for being in early, having some effect on the game and supporting the devs. Those that wanted did. Those that did not, join now.

- They seem to focus on the flying moon concept, which is one of the least interesting gameplay options for me. I like strategizing, building outward bases, launch large confusion attacks.. not even really liked nukes in all the earlier games.
You can play without haleyable objects and/or on a single large planet.

- How does the gameplay compare with its 17 old predecessor? (TA was quite nifty for its time, allowing multiple waypoints / starting waypoints etcetera)
We got multipel waypoints.
A innovative feature is the area commands, where you just drag a circle on the ground where you units should buld mex/attack/nuke.
The transporter systems lacks a ferry command as in Sup Com but I asume that comes too.
Regardign saving the goal is that the ChronoCam (replay that can be used while in the game) can be used to "jump in" at any timepoint of a previous match. But this a bit mroe complex so it takes it's time to implement.

- Also, how is the variety of units / buildings? (just a few basic units, or also the possibility to use hybrids, every single type for each terrain, being air/water/land..)
A bit limited vareity. No subs for examle (issues with the submerging emerged). Orbital game is a bit limited.
Bots, Vehicles, Airforce and Naval all have thier uses/strong points and proper counters exist.

[WDMeaun]

Hm..
First of all, I dont mind the graphic at all.. (do not find them pleasing, but.. it's okay).
Always loved gameplay-based games.. Mount & Blade being an example for not too pretty, but functional.
Gameplay always > graphics.. which is why I never really buy EA games.

Also having read other posts.. it seems like a lot of diversity is lost. (I do not need more than 4 players, if even that)
You given me enough reason to keep checking up on the updates to see if the original diversity is restored in time.
Would like to be able to completely remove 'smashable' planetoids. Including the nukes, it's a gameplay element that just does not attract me at all.
Big Bertha's from earlier were more than enough ;)
The sheer size of an epic army of robots versus an epic army of something else.. was just great.
Often seemed like oceans moving in and out.. finally ending up at one of the bases.
A moon making a 'thud' and a flash can never compare.

There has to be a bit more diversity within tiers and tiers itself, plus a few elements from earlier games, for me to participate.

You weren't comparing this to Supreme commander 2, were you?

Thanks for the reply, it did give light in a dark mind

[WDMeaun]

Ah also thanks, got ninja-ed.. didnt expect good responses actually.. helps me out a lot.
That video does show a small area (compared to Total Annihilation / Supreme Commander with having 'hard' borders).
Honestly it is possible I have romantized my memories of TA.. Thinking it was a lot better, because I just enjoyed it a lot at that age.
It does seem, even if you ignore it being a planet going around the sides, that it's a lot smaller.

Is it a 'medium' map?

Again I am getting more hopeful about its possibilities, but still seem a bit limited.
I'm actually already in too many 'early access' games to join another one. (the diversity doesn't bother me that much, but the scale does)
A few of those alpha projects were a bit disappointing.

It feels like an early release now with enough possibilities to really become the next Total Annihilation, but still to be determined. (and probably more than fun enough to already play, but without thinking too much about Total Annihilation)

[WDMeaun]

P.s.
Actually your gameplay question - answer shows me most.
These things are often overlooked and nifty things like that are good to see.

[zgrssd]

Only played the demo of SupCom 2, never the actuall game.

You can just define systems to be single planet or have planets without smashable objects.
Removing the nukes and SXX laser platform will propably require a server-side mod or maybe they add unit limitations as in SupCom later.

However I would not advise it at this points, at least not multi-planet. Planetary invasions need more work, especially a faster ferrry option and less vulnerability to airforce during touchdown.
The goal is to get a small beachhead to errect a teleporter that delivers you entire factory output to the frontlines even cross planet.
With a well defended planet commander snipe is right now the only real option.

About diversity:
A lot of stuff was consolidated. Subs had to fly out for the time being (no submerging). Most buildings can "just" be build on water (without being a extra building type) - a bit like C&C RA3 actually.
I would say it is streamlined. The rule is that no unit should make another unit unesseary. Because then we don't need one of the two anymore. T2 air superiority fighter had to fly out because of this reason.

[WDMeaun]

It is mostly because of Supreme Commander 2, that I am reluctant to buy this game for my love of Total Annihilation.
Supreme Commander 1 was good.. good diversity, huge maps and all that.
Supreme Commander 2 was made for consoles, I think, and it's largest map was smaller than the smallest of Totala and Supreme Commander 1. (there were probably smaller maps, but 'medium' were most definitely larger).

I think.. unless other people make a good point.. that it is very much possible for this game to archieve my wishes, but it s still to see.
The biggest reason of all for me to want these games is the sheer epic size, having huge maps as #1 priority.
Otherwise I have to forget about Total Annihilation to be able to enjoy this game and think about it as a different game 'totally'.

I'll wait a month or 2 and if there isn't a non-bugfix update, I wont get in.

[zgrssd]

It is closer on TA then SupCom 2. Actually closer to TA then even SupCom 1 was.

Just with the scales dailed up to eleven and modern UI systems like modding.

[[HN]]

And far less unit or building.

And by scale zgessd mean "a lot a very little map (compared to TA) connected by space uninteresting and void strategy".

[WDMeaun]

The gameplay video.. for my idea.. shows a small-to-medium map.. being it round and all makes it relatively smaller.. so medium might be a better quess.
The lack of diversity of units and buildings is not so bad for me, although I want it to return.
Having rather simple robot graphics, it's easy to add a lot more, good, content.

The high alpha price (relatively high to other alpha's, this not being a kickstarter); always online drm.. and those things.. worry about the possibilities to really extend the content.
I think adding units and buildings is still very much possible.
Not sure how scriptable the objects were in Total Annihilation, but user-made buildings and units with unique weaponry were vastly available. (ofcourse there was quite a bit of rubbish and generally less user-made content, because.. it was 17 years ago).
I still tell people about Total Annihilation to compare modern games to a game, maybe older than themselves. (having Totala is a complete winner)

[Ned]

The focus of this game has always been multiplayer and never really single player
That is one of the reasons at release and during testing many people were very unhappy with the game. No lore no factions no campaign... Nothing more than some devs and the same type of resources a game over 14 years ago used.
If you look at gameplay
The units
The features of the game its self
None of them add up to Total Ani
Not the single player not the multiplayer none of it
So to relate this released game to another released game and say it is the spiritual successor please someone show me.... Where is the....
Succession between TA and PA???
None of the gameplay is the same save for resources nor are the units likewise named.
So you have to ask your self
How far will you strech your imagination to make this game fit into the square peg where it does not fit.

[zgrssd]

Originally posted by firefix13:

None of the gameplay is the same save for resources nor are the units likewise named.

Commander builds fatories. Factories build fabricators. Fabricators build appropirate T2.
Naval, Air, Bot and Vehicle types, all with thier strenghts.
Win by killign commander.

You must have played a different TA or PA then me. I played the TA on gog.com.
But then again you try to make the names of units part of your argument, so that kinda shows how hard you have to look stuff to find offense at.

[Ned]

oh yes if you mean the build structure is similiar yes it is similiar but not the same many games have this kind of unit production fyi.
If you are tryin to say that PA has more incommon with TA than not
Well I disagree
There is more different between the two titles than there ever was in common.

[Hateful Cake]

Feels like a TA SupCom2 hybrid, but bit more action orientated, as not much end game stuff to play with. (release helped with that lol)