Tier 1 vs Tier 2 units

[Leb]

Is it just me, or do Tier 2 units/artillery/turrets completely and utterly obsolete Tier 1?

I understand of course T2 should be better, as they need a decent economy to get going, but I'm failing to see any purpose for T1 other than an extremely early rush.

A huge swarm of T1 tanks, artillery, bots, supported by fighters and bombers seems to get decimated by T2 armies half or 1 quarter their size, or even a few turrets!

Further is the effects of T2 units on the commander, a group of 10ish T2 tanks can take out a lone commander in less than a minute. While a good player would not leave a commander unsupported, I've seen situations where a quick attack and small flank can find a commander on his own and dead faster than one can react.

I'm not here to complain, I'm trying to understand, as a new player, the dynamics between the two unit classes.

[BEEF SUPREME]

Well, I'm a fairly new player too, but I fairly sure that rushing T2 too early destroys the economy, and makes them vulnerable.

[unsubstantiation]

in regarding the balance to T1 units I feel the issue is just that the t1 units are totally useless, Ive been playing for a couple weeks yet and have not brought myself to building any yet, (aside from builders of course). I think 10 T2 vehicles should be able to take on a commander, I mean otherwise how many would you reccomend to need, 20? Also I'm not sure how to use it, but I've seen the AI use his D-gun pretty effectively.

[Hex]

Tier 2 units are expensive to build and take a much longer time. You need to have a strong ecconomy to get things rolling really well, and if you never build T1 units you will likely get swarmed. Many people have actually complained that massing Tier 1 tanks is much more effective than making the same amount of Tier 2 tanks because you get so much more units faster for same resources. Tier 2 units take a bit longer to build even with swarms of builders assisting to make them, while Tier 1 you can pop one out in under a second with the same amount of builders helping. I build all kinds of units by setting them up in queue in the build order I want and then turn it on auto. Uusally I end up poping out 2 tier 1 units for every tier 2 that pops out and I send the tier 1 units our scouting. Tier 2 defend my base till I am ready to start mobilizing an attack.

Your Commander has an alternate weapon called Uber cannon that rips apart units, but you have to make him fire it. He will not fire it if you just make him attack units, you have to click the button or hot key and use it yourself.

[Apheirox]

This is a widely recognized problem in the community - the official forums are full of threads voicing the same concerns.

I'm honestly worried about PA's future. I want to hope for the best but I'm not confident Uber will ultimately deliver. If they believe the framework they have presented with Gamma is sufficient they are sorely mistaken. It is worrisome indeed that they currently have this system in place where the balance between the two tiers is so much off the mark.

Hopefully there will be more units and features before release along with a complete t1/t2 rebalance. I read Uber's intent was to have t2 units never replace t1 units with both in play throughout the game, but we'll see. As it stands you are completely correct; t2 units simply slaughter t1 units.

[Leb]

No idea that the commander had an uber cannon - that helps. While it may not be the path uber is willing to take as this is definitely more TA then supcom, I really liked the commander upgrades that supcom offered. Such as the ability to teleport the commander a certain distance away (at a huge energy cost), upgrade his guns, and so on and so forth. Considering the death of the commander is the end of the game, it feels a little gimmicky that he is so squishy compared to late game units.

Responding to Hex, I have yet to be in a situation where a T1 swarm couldn't be thwarted by a handful of turrets. It is ridiculously easy to defend against T1 attacks just using static defenses which are easily built, out range, and out damage the units. There is no reason what so ever to build T1 units to defend - turrets to defend and then straight to T2. Sure they take longer to make but they outmatch their T1 counterparts in every way possible. This applies to land of course. T1 fighters are probably the best AAA in a patrol swarm IMO, and T1 ships are very formidable as well.

Apheirox, I hope that Uber knows what they are doing - the track record of the guys behind it is stellar, so far I enjoy PA a lot and have been playing it almost nightly with friends, but as you said the divide here is too wide. I would like T1 units to be useful - as giant swarms of them look like they should be! In supcom a huge T1 swarm was something to fear. In PA 100s of T1 units are dead to a couple splash damage attacks from T2 units/turrets/arty

[Drogash]

they should add s Tire 3 and make Tire 3 own tire 1, and that would be better

[Leb]

From what I have read, Uber has stated they do not plan on adding a T3. But I agree. Right now T2 feels like Supcom T3. Needs to be a middle ground

[Hex]

Part of issue is that right now units DO NOT prioritize turrets hitting them. A bunch of bombers will ignore a flak cannon in favor of bombing units that don't fight back when they could kill the damn flak cannon in one coordinated hit. If you super micro manage the fight suddenly the turrets are dying super fast. But yeah the static defenses can be pretty powerful early on, kinda like how late game Sea units completely destroy massed Land units.

[Alexandria38]

I found that having 10 tank factories constantly pumping out tanks is a very good distraction for the enemy. They're too focused on defending if you have a constant swarm, and that's what T1 is for. You can make T1 stuff for like half of T2s cost and in half the time. I haven't played in weeks so I don't know exact numbers, but having 250 tanks, and building 10 every 5-10 seconds is a good way to keep up pressure and distract them from other things I'm building. Also sending a few T1s to go kill metal mining stations is a good idea.

Just use them as expendible minions.

[Leb]

What would you say is more effective on that front - 10 factories pumping out stuff or 1-2 factories with engineer assistance?

Which is more cost effective?

[Alexandria38]

Cost effective I'd say is 10 factories so long as you start them all at once so there's a brief recharge between building and launching units. Instead of having fabbers build them, use the fabbers to build more resources or factories.