Weapons need to be targeted

[dayofmone]

This game needs its weapons to be aimed.
Automatically or manually, it does not matter, but having fixed firing angles just does not seem to work against hordes this big.

The Gunner, for example, seems just unable to kill the dreadnought.
It is not possible to circle strafe it while keeping a firing angle, turning around every so often to blast it is insufficient to kill it.

The Driller's flamethrower is extremely bad due to its slow rotation speed, you can't balance trying to traverse the map with trying to damage enemies with it, the weapon kills the class altogether.

The Engineer's shotgun can be discarded entirely, it does not whatsoever synergise with the turret playstyle, again having to turn around to shoot back at enemies just is not how you play a game like this.

Grenades often don't hit enemies and instead land on walls, fall off the map or find the largest bug free area to detonate in.

I have over 600 hours in games of this style, here is my experience:
1. Weapons that circle the own character are great - if the roation speed or number of projectiles is adequate.
This game gatekeeps upgrades for this so hard, the weapon type is unplayable.
2. Straight ahead firing weapons are generally a waste of time, since you want to kite the enemy, not run into them head first and pray you can kill them all.
When you are forced to turn around constantly to avoid suiciding into a swarm, you can't manage the swarms.
3. Auto/manual targeting is the way to go.
If you look at games like Brotato and Halls of Torment, which took off after VS, they did that thanks to the ability to target attacks instead of aimlessly blasting preset zones.

This game has a difficulty problem not because of the swarm size but because at least 50% of the weapons in game don't manage to get damage on target consistently.

[Lieutenant Dan]

there are upgrades for auto targeting, I had a perk call big game hunter (I think) with gunner, targeted highest health target, and piercing ammo, was really good.

The enemies remind me of 20 minutes until dawn, bosses that you have to dodge and exploding targets in the swarms, you simply cannot walk towards these enemy types, so hand cannons and snipers etc should let you target manually.

[GazimoEnthra]

the gunners weapon is such bad design for a game where you're always facing away from enemies

[zerg_humand]

I agree wholeheartedly with Gunner being very underwhelming to play. What good is a minigun if you can't actually shoot anything with it? Having to face towards enemies in order to fire it makes it extraordinarily weak, compared to even the Scout's starting rifle, which just fires at the nearest target. Part of what made playing Gunner in DRG enjoyable is being able to spray down targets while moving AWAY from them, not shoving yourself face-first into an oncoming swarm.

Honestly, I'd love if we could manually adjust what direction we're facing, so we can keep gunning down enemies without having to move towards them. That, or just make the gun auto-aim towards the nearest enemy. Gunner feels VERY rough to play, since without any other weapons, you legitimately cannot mine while fighting off enemies. Your face is in the rock, and thus you aren't spraying any lead towards them. For a class so focused on raining fire on the enemy, it sure isn't very good at it.

Oh, and yeah, grenades really stink. It feels like I can't kill anything with them, let alone rely on them to actually explode in a group of enemies.

[Zouls]

Originally posted by GazimoEnthra:

the gunners weapon is such bad design for a game where you're always facing away from enemies

i agree but after playing driller where your gun always shoots behind you i get the idea. The point would be that you shouldnt run away and instead stand your ground and fight (as you dont need to moving towards them just looking at them)

which isnt necessarily bad but the way that spawns are handled in this game from all around you its really hard to make balanced.

[Devil Breaker]

As Gunner you dont need to face enemy just TAP derection where you want to shoot. You can mine and shoot at the same time like this. He is also good with artefacts that boost you when you stand still. Everything else I agree with.

[Vardaark]

I'd like to see them add the ability to turn your character model with the right stick, holocure does this and it makes using those weapons a lot more enjoyable, keep the need to be looking at the rocks to mine them and it's quite balanced.

[Vultan]

just git gud. also rock and stone.

[Sajiro]

I agree to a certain extent that those weapons feel really bad at the start of a run but then you can overclock them with plasma to make the shot bounce off rock, flame thrower get like 5 rays totally surrounding you, small guns can shoot in spiral ect ect all the weapons that feels bad can kill the last boss in hazard 5 if you take the time to get them overclock

[Misunderstood Everything Killer]

I am sorry to contradict but Gunner with the weapons specialist core is very OP. Being able to stand in a choke points and kill absolutely everything is basically all you really want in a game like this. The overclocks make the character absolutely insane and very much trivialises the game. It will also accurately targets anything in your 90 degree frontal arc which means you can run and still gun down targets on your left or right.

Hands down, Gunner with minigun is the easiest character to do haz 3 and 4 simply because he is a killing machine. Also engineer with the shotgun with plasma and shooting opposite direction overclocks is very good. Very comparable to Knife in Vampire Survivors which is one of the highest DPS base weapons in that game.

The first few hours of playing this game I thought the exact same thing about targeting. The game needed some sort of manual or auto targeting for weapons. Now I think after many hours of playing, some weapons just need some improvements to their targeting system like the Auto 210 which has a very janky targeting system and should be similar to the minigun's targeting system. Once fixed or balanced, there is no need to change the way weapons work currently.

Directional fixed weapons also feel kind of targeting at a weird direction which really sucks but the whole point of these weapons is to learn how to position yourself to effectively use them. Once you have them maxed out with overclocks they become killing machines, really all dependant on you able to position yourself correctly. I mean if it works for other games. Why would it not work for this game? Almost every Survival rogue-like game has the same type of directional fixed angles and they work super well.

[illundreal]

Grenades are hilariously bad especially without overclocks. You'll be chased by a horde of 200 enemies and your character will lob the grenade in a seemingly random direction to target 1 single mob (which it will then proceed to miss)

[Kristian]

Originally posted by illundreal:

Grenades are hilariously bad especially without overclocks. You'll be chased by a horde of 200 enemies and your character will lob the grenade in a seemingly random direction to target 1 single mob (which it will then proceed to miss)

Why grenades are not targeting the toughest enemy I will not understand

[BlackjackGT]

I'd support an "aiming toggle" key to better handle specific situations, and many V:S type games are offering that, and I've played many that added that type of thing after release in response to feedback.

It probably depends on how deep the devs heels are dug in on "no, we want to follow 'classic/pure' V:S 'rules' and make no changes." Or on if they'd rather we focus on picking weapons that claim to focus on highest HP enemies (when I pick those, it's hard to tell if they're actually doing that).

[DwieSzopyJackson]

Originally posted by Devil Breaker:

As Gunner you dont need to face enemy just TAP derection where you want to shoot. You can mine and shoot at the same time like this. He is also good with artefacts that boost you when you stand still. Everything else I agree with.

I shouldn't have to use a mechanic that is borderline exploit in order to be able to play the game. You should be able to aim or there should be auto-aim. Yet Another Zombie Survivors for instance has both.