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And given the fact somehow its acceptable for Frost Fang to be both a Berserker and Support weapon, I dont see why not have a Berserker and Sharpshooter weapon.
Unless they intentionally program the primary fire so that it doesn't benefit from crossperking--and thus none of Berserker's abilities--then this gives Berserker (and by extension, Survivalist with Melee Expert access to:
If you don't see the ridiculous balance issue(s) there, then I can't help you.
Berserker already had this in the form of two different weapons that inflicted EMP (Static Strikers and Teslauncher). Neither of those are as broken as the gun with on-demand freeze, but that's because freeze is arguably the most powerful incap in the game and should've remained on the Sharpshooter, and ONLY the Sharpshooter.
The ever-increasing prevalence of easy access to incaps is a serious problem for this game.
And nobody uses that on Berserker because they're too busy ooh'ing and aah'ing over how cool it is on Survivalist, which by the way, this gun would absolutely be used on the Survivalist nonstop, and Survivalist doesn't deserve that either.
It would, but not in any way that's healthy for the game.
Ask yourself why there are so few Sharpshooter crossperk weapons in the game. Because they're a balancing disaster each time they're brought into existence.
Berserker already has multiple good distance weapons that can quickly (Nailgun) or safely (Piranhas, Eviscerator) deal with medium and large Zeds, and without really putting the wielder at risk.
That's the Evisc-
Well, yes, but that's because Berserker having access to hard-hitting on-perk hitscans is unfair. It's not supposed to be good at distance fighting.
Hitscans are on squishy classes for a reason.
While the Frost Fang is broken and excessive in its own right (due to freeze), that's running on completely different logic.
Shotguns are inherently short-ranged weapons due to spread and projectile travel time. Shotguns do not work like Sharpshooter weapons, nor does the Support perk have the option to deal with enemies at Sharpshooter's comfortable distances.
Dedicated "melee" class that have to use range weapon to secure the lane if there is multiple Sirens in close proximity or multiple enraged FPs? Otherwise they get capped since their HP is the same as those other "squishy" class?
Delete up to medium Zeds with one shot, with 5 rounds per clips that force you into bolt pulling animation after every shots, and weight just enough that you can't carry any other heavy-hitters for your class?
Allow the Berserker to run quickly, even though most Zeds on Suicidal or HoE will still be able to catch up anyways? Running fast is now OP apparently.
Getting all passive and active boost? Are you talking about the incredible 1 HP/s regen that is rendered pretty much just a QoL perk and won't actually save you from anything except the poison cloud, or the majestic parry active that gives you around 30-35% damage + resist for 8 SECONDS that requires you to push certain buttons at the right time all the time or get capped by even the most ♥♥♥♥♥♥ Zeds like the crawlers when you are trying to hold a corridor?
Yeah, Berserker is a really broken OP class. We should all play it or nerf it into the ground.
Why should freeze be restricted to just one class? If someone wants to use freeze to do CC, they must only play this one specific class with specific specialized weapons and nothing else?
I'm not a fan of Survivalist class but I don't see any reason why a class designed to have freedom of choice over their weapons should be restricted from using any form of CC available in the game, it's the selling point for this class for the trade-off in maximizing their DMG output after all.
So few cross-perk weapon for Sharpshooter?
FN FAL -> Commando
Railgun -> Medic variant HRG Incision
Several gunslinger pistols and rifles
etc.
More than half of Sharpshooter weapons are available as a cross-perk or variant weapon.
Nailgun is pretty much a gloried 6-rounds shotgun or 42 rounds of mediocre DMG semi-auto rifle. I don't even waste my dosh buying these when I can pick up free T1 Support shotguns or even T1 SWAT MP7 from random spawns around the map.
An RPG-7 for Demo can outperform these two when dealing with large Zeds, even when used as a Berserker. These two weapons are great on boss-wave but when you need to clear a room full of medium-large Zeds fast, it isn't on the same level of performance compared to other classes heavy weapons. Reusable munitions are great though.
Looking for variety here, shooting sawblades can get old after 5 years.
Commando gets a freaking Minigun as a compliment to SCAR, Support gets a cool Doomstick for AA-12, Gunslinger gets a full-auto Glock (<3), Medic gets a railgun that can HEAL ppl (<3), etc.
Berserker gets a makeshift Jedi LED lamp-sword (I loved the Ion Thruster, but it didn't really changed how melee gameplay feels, same attack just faster now)
Just wanting something to change how the grind feels, and being able to feel like you can now go meleeing with a bayonet now is one incredible feelings, I don't really care all that much for the shooting part. Having Mosin Nagant with a bayonet attached is pretty much an addition of a "Spear" type weapon into a Berserker's arsenal. Really takes me back to the good time playing Rising Storm or Red Orchestra.
If you told me this in 2016 or something I'd have agreed with you.
But now the so-called Tankiness of Berserkers are so overrated, even with Dreadnaught you will only survive a few more extra hits and it's not worth it especially since you have to give up mobility and be completely reliant on Medic. You either have to pick between passive defense or active one and waste a perk slot to do so, unlike some other classes that have all those bonuses with additional armor, can sprint and aim down sight with increased movement speed with virtually no recoil, can tank a lot of damage by simply pressing aim AND can use ranged hitscan weapons to deal even more damage at much safer distance.
The notion that Berserkers should be a melee-only class died several years ago, and having the Mosin Nagant with the capacity of only 5 rounds of bolt-action per clips will not make Berserker a formidable ranged fighter anymore than giving Ion Thruster to Sharpshooter would make them monster at melee-fighting.
Honestly I could have agreed all of this if Berserker wasnt nerfed heavily. But because now that happens, this proves to be reliable to help make up the nerfs that Berserker had received. Even with Skirmisher, Berserker isnt that fast when dealing with Fleshpounds, sometimes Scrakes too. You still need to rely on a medic to heal, not to mention unlike Eviscerator, where it has laser sights, this one doesnt have any and you have to rely on aiming and shooting, which as you know, aiming will slow you down and skirmisher is useless when aiming a gun (since it doesnt include no speed penalty when aiming).
It should also be noted that Berserker isnt as tanky when using Skirmisher too comparing to back then. Dreadnought is now more reliable since you can take hits, especially with Berserker's rage which makes the situation less pressuring. But even so, you are limited with the amount of ammo you have. This all varies how you prioritize your weapons. Since melee is usually the main key for Berserkers but they need a shooter to defend themselves against large zeds and bosses.
Yes, Eviscerator does indeed have range. Problem is that its speed when shooting, and the lack of aiming down sights is what usually gets people not to use it. Although personally I use it as my favorite weapon because I can hipfire and aim and at the same time thanks to the laser sights and not worry about slowing down when aiming. Some just prefer to aim down sights.
Honestly if maybe they ever get a chance to bring back the Buzzsaw Bow from Killing Floor 1, that might be acceptable since you can aim down sights with it (although lack of drilling in the process unless they decide to replace blocking instead).
Of course the speed of the projectile may still be an issue but I think some people might get by since all it matters is being able to aim. Eviscerator you cant actually aim, but hipfire while relying on laser sights to aim.
If you're still picking loadouts that get you killed by Sirens in 2022, that's on you.
Everyone other than LLLLL Railgun Sharpshooters and LLLLL RPG/C4 demos gets inconvenienced by multiple raged FPs, because raged FP squads--while a terrible idea--are intentionally designed that way.
Someone didn't pick Dreadnaught to hold the line. Oops.
Skirmisher is for kiting Nuked.
My dude/dudette/enby/other, do the math. With parry boosts + passive + smash you're doing basically Sharpshooter damage. On the close-range class. With a hitscan weapon.
That weighs 7 blocks, so literally--other than the Eviscerator and battleaxe--you could carry any other melee weapon in Zerk's arsenal.
Oh, spare me. Nothing will catch you except for bosses and--after an eternity of nonstop running--raged Fleshpounds.
Yes, yes it is.
Fast movement on perks with regen creates an environment where players refuse to die when they fail to play well and rely on their survivability to win by attrition. Medic is way worse about it and deserves a kneecapping but Berserker used to be way worse about it pre-summer 2021. It's actually killable in kite mode now.
And just to cut that avenue off, even Gunslinger has too much for its insane DPS potential.
Stop dying to trash Zeds or drop down difficulties.
Because freeze is really powerful, and there was a reason why it used to be restricted to Sharpshooter, and only Sharpshooter, and why the one avenue for freeze (Sharp nade) doesn't inflict damage.
It's part of perk balancing and part of specialization: Sharpshooter is a stupidly powerful perk, and had it as an incap as part of its toolkit in exchange for 1) being a class that is lacking at close-range self-defense, and 2) that incap being extremely limited. A Sharp could either save it for takedowns (the ideal use on a good team) or use it to sort of escape from a bad situation (the grenade doesn't kill, and if the Sharp has to clear that situation to begin with, the punishment is taking a long time to kill everything nearby, which means the Sharp isn't doing their job of killing big things, and so forth).
Adding weapons like Freezethrowers into the game cheapens the specialization Sharpshooter had as the sole provider of freeze, and also brings readily-available versions of that tool to a class that doesn't require nearly the amount of ammo conservation or consideration for timing freeze grenades to gain the benefits of the incap. But even with that, it comes at an opportunity cost of giving up that weight that could otherwise be used for a pure damage-dealing weapon, or in the Medic's case, a secondary healing weapon. There's still some cost to it.
Adding a shotgun that freezes at the same time means that the incap which was once separate of its own accord now guarantees low-skill HVT takedowns in a single magazine, for perks that already do not lack for takedowns that require reasonable skill.
Or, in other words, "why worry about giving up my offensive power for freeze when I can now have both in one package?" It's a bad balance move.
CC spam dramatically cheapens the game's skill curve by allowing people who can't aim to get free takedowns. That's basically it. But it's a major thing.
Survivalist got handed enough cheat codes in the form of "QoL updates" at this point that it doesn't need any more.
Which is a mistake in every form and fashion. It's broken on Commando, it's arguably OP for Sharpshooter, and breaks the "damage vs. rate of fire" scale that the game was originally based around.
Not a crossperk, and that weapon was also a mistake. The primary fire needs substantial damage nerfing at bare minimum.
The two that actually count are single revolvers, and the Gunslinger crossperking works enough because those two share very similar roles without breaking the game.
That's different from something like Commando x Sharp because those perks are meant to tackle completely different roles with different weapons and different skill ceilings.
Did you know that it's been Berserker's best anti-large weapon for quite some time?
Because it is, and it only keeps getting buffed.
See above.
Variety is pointless without function, and most variety in this game doesn't even have that.
Minigun? It sucks. Who cares?
Doomstick? Nobody asked for it. We liked the Boomstick. And the Boomstick got nerfed so that that stupid thing could take its place anyway.
Or you could just play a different game. Vermintide's got a nice melee system.
lol what, "incredible feelings"
The bayonet is the worst thing about the weapon, but if you have to use it, just play Sharpshooter, the perk it was designed for. Or pick Survivalist and do a cute loadout with the M79 + Nagant or something like that. Just don't do it in a 6P HoE game.
Giving Berserker a sniper rifle just so people can RP Rising Storm in my 6P HoE games is misguided at best.
You're intentionally (I hope) misrepresenting perk and skill interactions.
Giving the Ion Thruster to a Sharp makes about as much sense as giving the Pulverizer to a Demo, because both of those classes lack literally any melee skills or abilities and have no reason to be in melee in the first place. This is a game where most enemies are in melee and the players have guns.
The same does not apply for a close-range class getting a hitscan sniper rifle, and because Berserker has so much damage to frontload, the reverse applies.
No, I didn't forget. It was earned, because Skirmisher was effectively a better tank than the dedicated tank skill, but also let Berserkers have free reign of the game regardless of the situation. Which was dumb.
What I get sick of is Berserker players acting as though the class is completely unplayable in any context (except when it isn't but that's totally different), or that they should be able to play that perk at literally any given time, even when it's not needed or the situation doesn't call for it.
If the deal is that they have to play melee, then there are much better games than KF2 anyway.
Its actually playable honestly from my experience, it still is. Just have to be more smarter how to use it. Because of the nerfs, you cant run all over the map as Berserker with Skirmisher. It did gain a massive nerf, but its not enough to stop Berserker to be unplayable thankfully. I think honestly the only way for Skirmisher to be playable other than a good medic is just grabbing a hemoclobber since I never really come across any issues with Berserker thanks to that.
I consider Skirmisher useful when it comes to running around maps. Not just Nuked but pretty much any map involves running around. Because Dreadnought is almost pointless if its not used for hold outs and just consistent to run around. Its still reliable when it comes to acting out as a Zed magnet, as long as the medic helps keep that zerker alive.
Melee weapons are absolute reliable when it comes to not wasting ammo and not having to reload. Some people seem to forget that too and too focused on other things. Its obvious the intention was for zerkers not just run, hack and slash everything they see while ignoring the amount of damage taken until death. Rather, know your limits when to attack and back off because they can get easily ganged up if spending too much time fighting.
Berserker is one of my favorite skills. Although I do wish theres a Sharpshooter/Berserker weapon. Eviscerator is one thing, but I like the idea having to aim, shoot, and block. Which is why I favor the idea of having Mosin Nagant, I wanna use it against Scrakes and Fleshpounds. If any reason some needs a bit nerfing to make Berserker able to equip it, I dont mind. Just a little concern how will Sharpshooter use it thats all.
Pretty much every cross perk weapon (not including sharp and gunslinger weapons) are balanced horribly, and medic doesn't need a railgun with an emp. That was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ horrible idea.
Zerk is balanced now, and you don't see good zerks complaining it's nerfed into the ground. If you want to tank reliably, take 200 hp, and if your medic is trash or you don't have one, take berserker rage. If you are kiting or running high dps with a medic, take skirmish.
The frostfang is pay2win on both surv and zerk and expanded his utility too well. You get appropriately 20-30 freezes out of it for larges and can melee scrakes before they unfreeze which is asinine.
Final answer: no. I like fun and variety but not power creeping. It ruins variety and creates meta.
Some perk abilities wont affect the gun. Such as Massacre and Smash since it only works solely on melee weapons, not the guns. It can work with Skirmisher, Vampire, and Butcher. Resistance and Parry as well. So it may affect just the melee in that case. Spartan and Berserker's Rage of course works as well. If it works with Frost Fang it can work with Mosin Nagant too.
But even so, Mosin Nagant would still be deadlier as Sharpshooter. As Berserker, it will have fairly high damage (not as high as Sharpshooter), but has 20% high damage (Aside from passive Berserker damage stat). Thats it.
I forgot to add another critical point of view so let me explain.
It can work but we have to remember the frostfang isn't exactly balanced well either. Even tho the primary fire of the frostfang doesn't receive damage bonuses from any of zerk's skills or his perk bonus of 25% damage, having a weapon that can melee and quickly one shot husks and bloats (from very far away) kind of cures another one of the perk's intended weaknesses. This is what the mosin can do even with the perk's bonuses applied only the bayonet.
It's also unclear if op wants it to be like the vlad or the frostfang, but either way it would still break intended game balance in some way. Surv's melee expert skill buff from 15%-75% was absolutely uncalled for and makes zerk look worse in camparison, but i don't think zerk should have ranged weapons that one shots med zeds to counter that. I'm still gonna have to say no unfortunately.
Now Survivalist I can understand because I do recall zerk's ability applied to Frost Fang which made it seemingly more deadly. They should see about nerfing that a bit first to work on the balance with Mosin Nagant. Plus, imo its already good enough with no ammo and not having to reload. This makes Hemoclobber more deadly as both a weapon and a healer for Survivalist.
So heres my thought. Nerf Survivalist's "melee expert" first, then add Mosin Nagant.
Also to add in regards of Zerk's ability, I dont think any of them apply for Frost Fang at all due to having it set on "bash" instead of fast or strong swing. Since right click is to aim, left to shoot, and bash is slashing with axe. Also another to add, Frost Fang has horrible reloading for Berserker which adds enough point of its weakness and theres no fast reloading with Berserker either. This can be challenging when dealing with bunch of raging Fleshpounds and Scrakes since it cant deal all of them quickly with about 6 shots. Closest you can get is getting "Spartan" since you can reload normally while on zed time, giving you time to load up and shoot. Funny enough, I prefer Eviscerator over Frost Fang for that reason.
The 50% extra damage part applies only on "heavy swing" classified attacks, so that excludes stuff like the Frost Fang's melee swing, or the hypothetical thrust from a crossperked Mosin (since that is a stab in the same vein as the Knife).
That still leaves the 25% base damage increase + Butcher + Smash headshot + Parry's active bonus, which are multiplicative on Berserker.
-zerk doesn't a need anymore weapons that counter husks, especially an on perk rifle with the ability to one shot them from across the map (that's what other perks are for or he can wait till they get close)
-He doesn't need a ranged rifle that's viable for large zeds
-He doesn't need a rifle if it's only form of melee is a single stab animation to spam at things
I just don't see any reason with this one. Maybe Serious can come in and share his opinions cuz trying to fit this thing on zerk without it being a complete meme or overpowered is making my brain smooth.
- HoE Husks tended to melt your face off with a flame attack, the safe way to deal with this rotten garbage is a range weapon. And yes, I know Berserker has Nailguns, Piranha Pistols, Evisc., Tesla-Launcher, etc. Mosin Nagant is just a way more classy tool to use against these Zeds.
- I don't know how Mosin Nagant will somehow trivialize large Zeds killing for Berserker. The Mosin Nagant is OP on solo play for sure, but it did not outperform any standard heavy weapons on multiplayer even with a Sharpshooter class. It's a good weapon for sure, but it's no where near the stopping power of a Railgun, Eviscerator, Doomstick or RPG-7.
- Well, yeah the stab spam is going to become monotonous after a while. It would be great if there is more to it than just spamming shove. But it's just the limitation of the current control scheme. I don't think they are ever going to overhaul something that has always been fundamental to both KF and KF2.
Btw, I'm not trying to advocating for another OP broken weapon here. For all I care they can simply disable all the bonus passive+active and just allow Berserker to melee with minor additional damage or something. Or no DMG increase but faster running speed like all Berserker weapons get.
Now, I don't think TWI is even reading these, why are we investing any more of our time arguing on futile matters. Sorry for starting this whole time sink :(
- I completely disagreed with you on this. I don't want to come off as combative or anything, but the bayonet is the greatest part about this weapon and you are simply uncultured. Bayonet drills was a great stress relieve, and to be able to artificially re-live those experience in one of the best game ever, why the heck would I not want to do that? And is it also wrong to RP in game as well? I thought games were primarily meant to be an entertainment medium? Not sure about the others, but if I want to RP a crappy builds I don't go into someone else's HoE to do so anyways.
And yes, I do play Sharpshooter, it is just cheaper to kill all trash Zeds with a T1 shovel or a "gentle" shove to the face, then the dosh goes into something else such as the munition for this wonderful rifle. For a gun equipped with bayonet for close-in fight, it just feels weird to have it restricted to only a ranged class.
Don't even suggest playing Survivalist, I played useful team-based class like Medic, Support, or Demo on HoE for my mates.
And what do you mean "my 6P HoE games"? You seems to give off such an Elitist killjoy vibes for some reason. No offense.
- Yes, I know that the Nailgun is one of the "best" anti-large weapon for Berserker. And I'm saying that some off-perk weapons can be use much more effectively for destroying large targets than that repurposed utility tool. You can't consider something totally "best" when the only options available are few. Try using the Nailgun on perk that do not receive any bonus for the weapon, and do the same for other weapons of the same price range. Performance and aesthetic-wise, this weapon is so brutish and uncivilized.
Civilized people don't go to war with Lowe's garage hardware tools like this one.
We go to war with shovel and an absurdly long rifle with a bayonet attached for even more front-heavy centre of gravity.
Great game that I have played too much of already.
And no, (Swords + Guns + RPG + Massive Explosion) > (Sword + Guns + Magic + Rat-thing)
Waiting for the upcoming 40K Warhammer though, beta footage gameplay was fantastic.
It depends on how it's balanced, and there's many ways it could be done. The fact it can delete husks and bloats from any rage with no fall off damage and the fact it's hitscan makes it even tougher to balance.
Those are good examples of extremely powerful weapons but they're also quite heavy and limit the user's builds and effective range, which is a critical thing to think about when balancing zerk being a specialist for CQB. The eviscerator can snipe zeds but since it's projectile you would either have to have perfect aggro from long rage or lead your shots like an absolute god. It's very close to game breaking but not really since it's projectile and limits the user's build with it being 9kg and only having 25 shots.
This is probably the most tragic part, but it is a bayonet after all. You can't really slash with something that doesn't have an edge and TW/Saber probably isn't going to put work in to remodel new animations so it can be on the zerker this late in the game's life.
Would it be cool to have new animations and attacks? sure, but realistically the only thing you can do is block and stab with a bayonet. They're more like large spikes rather than a blade, because something with a really long thin edge would most likely snap in half.
My apologies then. That's just me being defensive because so many people ask for game breaking weapons and the dev team has a problem with catering to those folks. This is why the current meta for pubs is to just spam everything with panic and explosives and i hate the current state of the game. The hardest difficulty should not have an easy mode but a lot of people disagree with me there.
Unfortunately they don't, maybe once in a few years at most. Sometimes they'll respond to people on the discord and the TW forums but that's if you're lucky,
The eviscerator is quite powerful but has low ammo. I rarely use them on med zeds like husks or edars unless if its truly a must. I would use my melee weapon (in my case, hemoclobber) to kill them. Although husks are more risky to melee. I mostly use eviscerator on large zeds just to avoid taking damage while damaging them.