Why is the AK better than the L85A2? 5.56x45mm (.223) > 5.45x39 (.22) IRL

[King_Kiff]

MAKES NO EFFING SENSE

L85A2 fires 5.56x45mm/.223 ammo

AK12 fires 5.45x39mm/.220 ammo

the 5.56 rounds are slightly heavier (55-60gr), fly slightly faster, carries more kinetic energy and are generally more accurate at range than the Russian 5.45mm counter-parts.

The L85A2 also has a longer barrel than an AK12 thus resulting in better muzzle velocity.

IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE.

If the AK was a 7.62x39mm variant then maybe, but no. We have a SCAR in proper 7.62x51mm already.

I personally like the L85A2 better in game,I just wish it would match up better to IRL. It should do more damage to the high end enemies than the AK12 does.

[Spikex8]

If you want stuff to make sense it doesn't really matter what damage anything does because a bullet in the brain will kill a humanoid in one shot the majority of the time regardless of what gun fires it. This isn't ARMA. Nobody else knows that or cares. They more than likely just go with what weapon they think looks or feels more powerful and then tier them accordingly.

[Implacable Lemon]

The AK12 is supposedly chambered for 7.62, if you listen to the dialogue.

[arcana xiii]

The wounding capabilities between 5.45 and 5.56 is marginal at best if you're refering to FMJ ammunition. Barrel length isn't the end of the world for muzzle velocity as 5.45 achieves similar velocity to 5.56 despite the AK74 having a 16" barrel. It's just loaded hotter and the bullet is lighter, allowing it to achieve higher velocity despite a shorter barrel.
5.56 x 45mm in British Service utilizes the SS109 62gr penetrator projectile, reknown for it's inconsistent terminal performance and relatively poor accuracy at range.
5.45 x 39mm in Russian service uses the 7N10 ammunition which is similar in design to the SS109/M855 5.56 round featuring a steel penetrator as well as a lead core.

I give you props for trying, but you lack some understanding about terminal ballistics.

[@theweedfather]

eggplant eredeti hozzászólása:

The wounding capabilities between 5.45 and 5.56 is marginal at best if you're refering to FMJ ammunition. Barrel length isn't the end of the world for muzzle velocity as 5.45 achieves similar velocity to 5.56 despite the AK74 having a 16" barrel. It's just loaded hotter and the bullet is lighter, allowing it to achieve higher velocity despite a shorter barrel.
5.56 x 45mm in British Service utilizes the SS109 62gr penetrator projectile, reknown for it's inconsistent terminal performance and relatively poor accuracy at range.
5.45 x 39mm in Russian service uses the 7N10 ammunition which is similar in design to the SS109/M855 5.56 round featuring a steel penetrator as well as a lead core.

I give you props for trying, but you lack some understanding about terminal ballistics.

wikipedia only tells you so much ;)

[King_Kiff]

lol at eggplant. no one uses SS109 62gr anymore. Also I cannot find any indication in game that the AK12 is a 7.62mm variant, the enemies also have steel skulls if you take note in zed time when peeling bac their faces with the 9mm handgun.

I own rifles (bolt actions, but still chambered in those cartrides) and I will tell you that the 5.56mm beats the 5.45mm hands down every time for killing power. I will hunt Roo's and Deer with my .223, not with my hotted up .22 that is the 5.45mm.

It's just not as good.

[King_Kiff]

47 eredeti hozzászólása:

eggplant eredeti hozzászólása:

The wounding capabilities between 5.45 and 5.56 is marginal at best if you're refering to FMJ ammunition. Barrel length isn't the end of the world for muzzle velocity as 5.45 achieves similar velocity to 5.56 despite the AK74 having a 16" barrel. It's just loaded hotter and the bullet is lighter, allowing it to achieve higher velocity despite a shorter barrel.
5.56 x 45mm in British Service utilizes the SS109 62gr penetrator projectile, reknown for it's inconsistent terminal performance and relatively poor accuracy at range.
5.45 x 39mm in Russian service uses the 7N10 ammunition which is similar in design to the SS109/M855 5.56 round featuring a steel penetrator as well as a lead core.

I give you props for trying, but you lack some understanding about terminal ballistics.

wikipedia only tells you so much ;)

I thought as much to, typical copy paster expert. Wiki be my hero lol

[arcana xiii]

A majority of the world still uses M855/SS109, including the US Marine Corps, who have announced they will not switch to the Army's terrible idea of M855A1, instead are utilizing M855 and Mk318. And yes, I'm aware that the AK12 fires 5.45, although a variant in 5.56 and 6.5 Grendel are in the works for export purposes.
There is no such thing as "killing power" there is only causing CNS destruction or massive drops in blood pressure to achieve a stop or kill.
And yeah, .223 and 5.45 are still about 0.22" in diameter... Now instead of making yourself looking like a Wikipedia reading know-it-all now you're just looking stupid.

[Ruego Al Alba]

Spikex8 eredeti hozzászólása:

Nobody else knows that or cares.

I knew it and I care.

[King_Kiff]

ok mate I expected nothing less being a Steam community thread, but whatever, hate all you want.

I'm speaking from real world experience here. Not everyone uses specific hot rounds to achieve the best from that caliber. Anyway all that useless rant you have posted is nothing more than the front page of a wiki search on the subject.

If we want to go silly the AK12 is also coming out in variants of 7.62x51mm and .308win (yes they are different) as well as a wide range of other civi cartridges. Lets not go nuts.

Standard off the shelf 5.56mm performs better than standard off the shelf 5.45mm in every respect. Why make a larger (it is) and heavier (it is) bullet do less in a game? Whne IRL it does more, not by leaps and bounds but it does do more.

[Draescan]

King_Kiff eredeti hozzászólása:

lol at eggplant. no one uses SS109 62gr anymore. Also I cannot find any indication in game that the AK12 is a 7.62mm variant, the enemies also have steel skulls if you take note in zed time when peeling bac their faces with the 9mm handgun.

I own rifles (bolt actions, but still chambered in those cartrides) and I will tell you that the 5.56mm beats the 5.45mm hands down every time for killing power. I will hunt Roo's and Deer with my .223, not with my hotted up .22 that is the 5.45mm.

It's just not as good.

Lt. Bill Masterson quote when using the AK12 to kill zeds " 7.62 to the brain pan works wonders! " If you look at the rounds inside the magazine in game it is definitely a 7.62 x 39 instead of the 5.45. The 5.45 is shorter and the " neck " of the round starts sooner. It doesn't matter anyways, if you want to go off of realism....the L85 jams all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time and has a really bad tendency to get residue in the chamber and magazine port. No real reason to complain about it tbh. It's a video game and they aren't exactly going for realism here. The models look good. Leave it at that.

[King_Kiff]

Spikex8 eredeti hozzászólása:

If you want stuff to make sense it doesn't really matter what damage anything does because a bullet in the brain will kill a humanoid in one shot the majority of the time regardless of what gun fires it. This isn't ARMA. Nobody else knows that or cares. They more than likely just go with what weapon they think looks or feels more powerful and then tier them accordingly.

Just a note most of the enemies or the larger ones at least have a steel skull under their face skin that you can see when you blow bits off. So yeah, they are a bit more than the average skull.

[King_Kiff]

PsychoMantis eredeti hozzászólása:

King_Kiff eredeti hozzászólása:

lol at eggplant. no one uses SS109 62gr anymore. Also I cannot find any indication in game that the AK12 is a 7.62mm variant, the enemies also have steel skulls if you take note in zed time when peeling bac their faces with the 9mm handgun.

I own rifles (bolt actions, but still chambered in those cartrides) and I will tell you that the 5.56mm beats the 5.45mm hands down every time for killing power. I will hunt Roo's and Deer with my .223, not with my hotted up .22 that is the 5.45mm.

It's just not as good.

Lt. Bill Masterson quote when using the AK12 to kill zeds " 7.62 to the brain pan works wonders! " If you look at the rounds inside the magazine in game it is definitely a 7.62 x 39 instead of the 5.45. The 5.45 is shorter and the " neck " of the round starts sooner. It doesn't matter anyways, if you want to go off of realism....the L85 jams all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time and has a really bad tendency to get residue in the chamber and magazine port. No real reason to complain about it tbh. It's a video game and they aren't exactly going for realism here. The models look good. Leave it at that.

Must have missed that, I have limit in game chatter on as the voice spam gets a bit much for me. Funny seeing as the AK12 isn't 7.62x39mm in any standard issue, the Russians and other nations dropped that round as a standard ages ago.

Might as well have just put a proper AK47 in the damn game.

[Stray Ferret]

ha, gun stuff

[Draescan]

King_Kiff eredeti hozzászólása:

PsychoMantis eredeti hozzászólása:

Lt. Bill Masterson quote when using the AK12 to kill zeds " 7.62 to the brain pan works wonders! " If you look at the rounds inside the magazine in game it is definitely a 7.62 x 39 instead of the 5.45. The 5.45 is shorter and the " neck " of the round starts sooner. It doesn't matter anyways, if you want to go off of realism....the L85 jams all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time and has a really bad tendency to get residue in the chamber and magazine port. No real reason to complain about it tbh. It's a video game and they aren't exactly going for realism here. The models look good. Leave it at that.

Must have missed that, I have limit in game chatter on as the voice spam gets a bit much for me. Funny seeing as the AK12 isn't 7.62x39mm in any standard issue, the Russians and other nations dropped that round as a standard ages ago.

Might as well have just put a proper AK47 in the damn game.

Well a lot of game developers like the more " modern " look of the ak12 and aren't really a fan of the wooden finish that you'll find on the standard 47. Honestly if you look at the rest of the weapons in the game they are trying to go with a more modernized / slightly futuristic look with the weapons. I am hoping for an AN-94 later on but I'm trying not to get my hopes up :P

[@theweedfather]

PsychoMantis eredeti hozzászólása:

King_Kiff eredeti hozzászólása:

lol at eggplant. no one uses SS109 62gr anymore. Also I cannot find any indication in game that the AK12 is a 7.62mm variant, the enemies also have steel skulls if you take note in zed time when peeling bac their faces with the 9mm handgun.

I own rifles (bolt actions, but still chambered in those cartrides) and I will tell you that the 5.56mm beats the 5.45mm hands down every time for killing power. I will hunt Roo's and Deer with my .223, not with my hotted up .22 that is the 5.45mm.

It's just not as good.

Lt. Bill Masterson quote when using the AK12 to kill zeds " 7.62 to the brain pan works wonders! " If you look at the rounds inside the magazine in game it is definitely a 7.62 x 39 instead of the 5.45. The 5.45 is shorter and the " neck " of the round starts sooner. It doesn't matter anyways, if you want to go off of realism....the L85 jams all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time and has a really bad tendency to get residue in the chamber and magazine port. No real reason to complain about it tbh. It's a video game and they aren't exactly going for realism here. The models look good. Leave it at that.

guns only "jam" when you don't maintain them, you have to actually neglect your weapon for it to malfunction, just fyi.