Managing Recoil

[Sir Cailean]

Greetings one and all, while new to KF2, I've played KF1 long enough to know my way around this game from the get-go. But one thing which was heavily different even in full-auto was the recoil.

It seems nearly random, sometimes speeding up and slowing down when it feels like it. I'm no newbie to FPSes anymore, spending quite a bit of time into PS2, KF, and Warframe (technically third person) to know how to handle my recoil.

But even though my sensitivity is quite high, high enough to zip-zap my way around at any given moment, I can't seem to manage the recoil.

It's absurdly high in comparison to all FPS games I've played, even other ones that I didn't mention, is there perhaps a method to it I'm not seeing?

I'd like to hear all thoughts on this subject! This isn't a, 'nerf recoil' or anything like that thread, just how I can learn to manage full auto recoil in this game. More specifically on the Assault Rifile for the Medic, and other such weapons.

Please though, don't try informing me I shouldn't be going full auto. It's not that I don't understand why I shouldn't be, I completely understand since I did play KF for quite some time. It just doesn't solve my problem, and is a completely different subject entirely. Focus on managing recoil in full auto, if you will!

Tips and tricks are always appreciated, however.

[Runaway Hearse]

Short-controlled bursts my friend. The AK seems to have the "wildest" recoil but 2 round bursts on full-auto tear Zeds up. The SA-80 seems to have the lowest recoil, love that weapon.

[Sir Cailean]

Originally posted by Giblet:

Short-controlled bursts my friend. The AK seems to have the "wildest" recoil but 2 round bursts on full-auto tear Zeds up. The SA-80 seems to have the lowest recoil, love that weapon. :Dosh:

Don't take me as rude, but I did mention I'm fully aware of the advice about burst fire. Though the Assault Rifle for the Medic doesn't seem to have a burst fire mode? It at least doesn't seem to be the same button. (middle mouse button) But beyond that, I'm questioning how to manage it's recoil in full auto, unless it's basically impossible to manage? If that's what your getting at.

I wanted to stray away from this subject, as it's close to being off topic, but sometimes you simply need to go full auto, or at least dish out as much damage as Humanly possible. Even if it's only once in a game, or even once in every ten games, I need to master the recoil never the less.

[Bleed]

Controlled bursts save ammo and try to hip fire until Zed time is my method. I don't ads unless I can stand still. I love the recoil and it helps provide a learning curve that makes the game more than just a shooting gallery. Knowing where the bullet is going from the barrell of the gun is a learning curve to get head shots. Subtle dragging down of the mouse can help with rise. Raking up can leave the last projectile at the head. TWI weapons are awesome.

[Sir Cailean]

Originally posted by 20.0z Bleed:

Controlled bursts save ammo and try to hip fire until Zed time is my method. I don't ads unless I can stand still. I love the recoil and it helps provide a learning curve that makes the game more than just a shooting gallery. Knowing where the bullet is going from the barrell of the gun is a learning curve to get head shots. TWI weapons are awesome.

In KF1, I could land headshots without even ADSing, I had mastered recoil down, and can honestly say I was good at the game. But again, mastering recoil is one of the elements I find I must master in the game, be it hip fire, or ADSing. It begins to gnaw on my nerves, but for the third time, I'm -fully- aware of the benefits of control fire.

I really don't want to sound rude, but I don't know how else to put it more simply. I'm completely aware of the benefits of burst firing, preserving every bullet you need.

That's off topic, my question is; how do you control full auto? Is there a technique other then the obvious?

[Runaway Hearse]

No problem. I was talking about any weapon the is full-auto. I used the AK and SA-80 as examples. The Medic assault rifle, when using short bursts of 2 to 3 rounds it's head shot after head shot.

The only thing I can think of is that you're wanting to shoot like you're using a machine gun, like an M240 etc. Where you can just keep firing and hit stuff, but that isn't in the game and would be really OP.

Other than that, it's practice.

[Bleed]

Originally posted by Khailix:

Originally posted by 20.0z Bleed:

Controlled bursts save ammo and try to hip fire until Zed time is my method. I don't ads unless I can stand still. I love the recoil and it helps provide a learning curve that makes the game more than just a shooting gallery. Knowing where the bullet is going from the barrell of the gun is a learning curve to get head shots. TWI weapons are awesome.

In KF1, I could land headshots without even ADSing, I had mastered recoil down, and can honestly say I was good at the game. But again, mastering recoil is one of the elements I find I must master in the game, be it hip fire, or ADSing. It begins to gnaw on my nerves, but for the third time, I'm -fully- aware of the benefits of control fire.

I really don't want to sound rude, but I don't know how else to put it more simply. I'm completely aware of the benefits of burst firing, preserving every bullet you need.

That's off topic, my question is; how do you control full auto? Is there a technique other then the obvious?

Dude nobody controls full auto .It would be COD lazer shooting if you could. It's cone fire I think. You would have to move your mouse in 3 different directions to adjust. In cone it's random too. keep full auto for close distance full frontal face shots when trapped when being grabbed. These guns have too much realism to think your going to be able to do that. No one unleashes full auto at range with TWI's guns in RO2 either. Go into a solo game and shoot a wall and look at the pattern on full auto. That might help

[Leon]

I play with medic guns, i feel they are most stable weapons of all classes, high fire rate and stable, can't even seem to be having hard time. commando weapons on the other hand like scar and ak will make u go dizzy, unless you use scope to fire then it is 70% better to handle.

[Sir Cailean]

Originally posted by 20.0z Bleed:

Originally posted by Khailix:

In KF1, I could land headshots without even ADSing, I had mastered recoil down, and can honestly say I was good at the game. But again, mastering recoil is one of the elements I find I must master in the game, be it hip fire, or ADSing. It begins to gnaw on my nerves, but for the third time, I'm -fully- aware of the benefits of control fire.

I really don't want to sound rude, but I don't know how else to put it more simply. I'm completely aware of the benefits of burst firing, preserving every bullet you need.

That's off topic, my question is; how do you control full auto? Is there a technique other then the obvious?

Dude nobody controls full auto .It would be COD lazer shooting if you could. It's cone fire I think. You would have to move your mouse in 3 different directions to adjust. In cone it's random too. keep full auto for close distance full frontal face shots when trapped when being grabbed. These guns have too much realism to think your going to be able to do that. No one unleashes full auto at range with TWI's guns in RO2 either. Go into a solo game and shoot a wall and look at the pattern on full auto. That might help

One of the few FPSes I've hardly ever touched is CoD. I'm not sure of this, 'lazer shooting' you're speaking of, but if you're implying that it doesn't take skill to manage recoil, judge the projectile speed in comparison to the target's movement speed, bullet drop, and have good accuracy, then I can assure you that isn't an issue.

So basically, what you're saying is, fire rate is more or less pointless in this game, if you're always incapable of using it's maximum fire rate. Balance can be made through other means, such as bullet damage, and other statistical values.

But this is all beside the point, and is worthy of a thread of it's own. Let's remain on topic.

Originally posted by L:

I play with medic guns, i feel they are most stable weapons of all classes, high fire rate and stable, can't even seem to be having hard time. commando weapons on the other hand like scar and ak will make u go dizzy, unless you use scope to fire then it is 70% better to handle.

This unfortunately didn't answer my question. You simply stated you aren't having difficulties... what am I supposed to pick up on that? I appreciate your opinion on the subject, and it's good to hear some people aren't having the issues I am. But I obtained no new knowledge, other then what I had already presumed.

Originally posted by Giblet:

No problem. I was talking about any weapon the is full-auto. I used the AK and SA-80 as examples. The Medic assault rifle, when using short bursts of 2 to 3 rounds it's head shot after head shot.

The only thing I can think of is that you're wanting to shoot like you're using a machine gun, like an M240 etc. Where you can just keep firing and hit stuff, but that isn't in the game and would be really OP.

Other than that, it's practice. :B1:

Now I'm no gun expert, but I imagine in real life an Assault Rifile can be used in full auto with decent accuracy, presuming the wielder is knowledgable on the subject. But 2-3 bursts takes a skill in it's own, I can tap my mouse button and shoot off 4 shots, which, happens to be the time when the Assault Rifile tends to jump up due to it's incredible recoil. Now, don't get me wrong, headshots are sweet, but I tend to be the one the Fleshpounder and Scrake go after, so in this case scenario, if I were to only -ever- use 2-3 shot rounds, I might as well be using my SMG/pistol since their recoil is managable, and I can use it's fire rate to it's near-full potential.

Not to say they aren't unpredictable at times themselves, but I can do moderately fair with them, landing reliable shots and even headshots occasionally, firing as quickly as I can. An Assault Rifile, from my understanding, is partially deadly due to it's rate of fire and accuracy. What's the point of it's good rate of fire, if you can't use it?

This thread is getting off topic and much longer then it needs to be, and I don't have much faith I'll find the answer(s) I seek. We'll just say my question has been, 'answered'. No more need to discuss this further.

[Bleed]

So I went in and checked full auto against a wall and let the weapon go where it wanted and did it again while compensating for the recoil. Now while running you add another element of movement and have to intuitively compensate but that is another almost subconcious skill.Of course while in Zed Time you can analyze how you should compensate while in motion a lot easier and then extrapolate how you might handle recoil in real time. You can see there is mostly just upward rise of the weapon for the most part. I don't think OP's question has an answer other than mouse adjustment against rise and sighting down barrell at any given moment. Here are some screenshots of several different weapons on full auto while being left wild and while being constrained by the mouse. Good thread and I would like to hear someone elses take on getting better with aim. http://s173.photobucket.com/user/ibleedalot/library/Full%20auto?sort=3&page=1

[Leon]

For example a way to almost feel 70% less recoil with medic gun works with most weapons too, guns goes up with medic gun u can notice it clearly, move the mouse down as you burst shoot, with practice you can easily save a lot of ammo this way.

[Sir Cailean]

Originally posted by L:

For example a way to almost feel 70% less recoil with medic gun works with most weapons too, guns goes up with medic gun u can notice it clearly, move the mouse down as you burst shoot, with practice you can easily save a lot of ammo this way.

Again, please refer to the OP in accordance with burst fire.

Originally posted by Khailix:

Please though, don't try informing me I shouldn't be going full auto. It's not that I don't understand why I shouldn't be, I completely understand since I did play KF for quite some time. It just doesn't solve my problem, and is a completely different subject entirely. Focus on managing recoil in full auto, if you will!

I'm no newbie, as stated several times. I'm fully aware of saving ammo, and otherwise the benefits of burst fire, as stated several times. My patience is beginning to become tried, I don't want to become frustrated, but having to repeat myself this many times has become a daunting task.

[Bleed]

Khallix -"Now I'm no gun expert, but I imagine in real life an Assault Rifile can be used in full auto with decent accuracy, presuming the wielder is knowledgable on the subject".

NO. I have fired all of the most common weapons and some antique weapons at Knob Creek. Full auto is actually very similar to what is being experience ingame.

There is a good deal of realism built into the weapons of this game. That is TWI's forte and they do it well.

You will hit far less than one might think with full auto. No one runs and guns full auto in a combat situation. So in the end coping with rekoil should best be handled just as you would train with a real weapon. Imagin looking through your ACOG on full auto.

[Wife Pillow Fusion]

I just ran through a short game with the AK. After playing with it a few times I can conclude that the recoil is exactly the same every time on Full Auto. When fired, the AK will pull straight up, with an occasional pull to the right, creating a semi-serpentine flow. To compensate for this, I recommend firing in short bursts, and pulling down on the mouse. By pulling in the opposite direction of the gun's recoil, you will bring it to the center of the screen. Also, once you need to reset your mouse's position, stop firing, or you'll end up pulling back up and losing that important focus.

But, that's on full-auto. Short Burst firing mode is actually incredibly accurate. As long as you don't spam it, and fire once every 1 second it shouldn't kick back at all. Even though I was practising on Normal, the kic on the AK is fairly minimal on Short Burst. Full Auto is where you will encounter the most difficulty. On harder difficulties I recommend my first paragraph: Full Auto mode, and pull down on the mouse to compensate for the straight up recoil.

Hope this helps some.

[Sir Cailean]

Originally posted by 20.0z Bleed:

Khallix -"Now I'm no gun expert, but I imagine in real life an Assault Rifile can be used in full auto with decent accuracy, presuming the wielder is knowledgable on the subject".

NO. I have fired all of the most common weapons and some antique weapons at Knob Creek. Full auto is actually very similar to what is being experience ingame.

There is a good deal of realism built into the weapons of this game. That is TWI's forte and they do it well.

You will hit far less than one might think with full auto. No one runs and guns full auto in a combat situation. So in the end coping with rekoil should best be handled just as you would train with a real weapon. Imagin looking through your ACOG on full auto.

Fair enough, I submit on the realism subject, as that, quite honestly, is -not- my forte. -Especially- when it comes to guns, through out all my life gaming, I've focused on enhancing the gameplay of a given game, rather then the realism of one. It's always good to have a believable game, but not one too in the depths of realism, lest one wishes to leech the game and devolve it into a simulator.

Likewise, too much focus on a gameplay can make it fun, but like a running joke, it will eventually get old due to how unbelievable it is. So what I'm saying is; it's good to have people like you on these forums who does have experience in real life concerning the game.

I see a dilemma, then. On one hand, realism, I see no point in getting the gun over the other medic weapons, even with it's damage increase with each shot, due to how slow you have to fire. On the other, gameplay, which will make it seem unbelievable, and potentially lackluster.

In the end, though, unless I can find a technique or something to increase how many bullets I can put out accurately, statistically speaking, I see little reason in getting the Assault Rifile, other then the extra medic gun.

We'll see if anyone can offer up any viable advice, I suppose. But I doubt we should continue this thread, as it seems to be so far just a repeat.

[Bleed]

Originally posted by Fireking Axilotl:

I just ran through a short game with the AK. After playing with it a few times I can conclude that the recoil is exactly the same every time, even on full auto. When fired, the AK will pull straight up, with an occasional pull to the right, creating a semi-serpentine flow. To compensate for this, I recommend firing in short bursts (as you are aware of), and pulling down on the mouse. By pulling in the opposite direction of the gun's pull, you will bring it to the center of the screen. Also, once you need to reset your mouse's position, stop firing, or you'll end up pulling back up.

Hope this helps some.

I think what you say is all there is to say about the fire pattern.
The rest is projecting down the barrel of the weapon to where the target is.
That line of sight off the body. Add in the variable for the avatars movement and the targets movement and it's just practice. I get amazing headshots while running and shooting a moving target with any weapon. But full auto will get you killed in this game just like it would in combat.