The HX25 Grenade Pistol is the Worst Weapon I have ever used in a Killing Floor game.

[lPaladinl]

I do not understand how this weapon is meant to be used. Up close, it is a high-impact explosive "shotgun" that has hardly any AoE effect. It does barely enough damage to kill Clots and sometimes Gorefast on Hard. Feels absolutely useless against any larger targets, and has the added insult to injury of being blocked by Sirens, despite doing basically nothing to them.

At range, the gun has some spread, which while looking cool, it's terrible to aim, and, even when you get lucky to hit multiple explosives onto one target, suddenly has *none* of the damage that it does on a direct hit. The smaller explosive charges aren't enough to even tickle a Cyst's giblets. I swear I could hear some Slashers saying "Did you just feel a breeze go by?" after firing this thing at them.

- The damage is terrible, unless you unload it at point blank to get the full payload onto one target. Even when you do this, it's not any good against anything larger than Clots. This also doesn't feel appropriate to me for a Demo weapon, the bonafied "AoE Class". The long range spread of this weapon seems absolutely worthless to me, as it doesn't even seem to dent Cysts.

- The ammo is attrocious. Only around 20 rounds max. I know Demos can get more ammo, but I still don't see the gun getting any better with having more ammo. I hardly want to use the ammo it has to begin with.

- Only 1 shot per load. Normal for a Demo weapon, except this doesn't feel like a Demo Weapon. It feels like a Limp Noodle diseased cousin of a Support Weapon that has none of the damage of a support shotgun, and none of the AoE feel good boom of a Demo weapon. With such a restricted ammo capacity per reload, I would expect more bang for my buck.

- Feels absolutely unbalanced compared to other perk starting weapons. I've had zero issues with any other perk starting weapon feeling competent enough to get you producing some cash even if you join mid-game on Normal and Hard difficulties. On Normal, a lot of these weapons can even carry you quite far. I do not feel that the HX25 is capable of doing this.

And to top it off, it just feels terrible as a weapon for me. It's a one-shot one-kill (Hopefully, if you shot a Cyst.) weapon that doesn't seem to have any good payoff for using it. It lacks the ammo to carry you through waves, lacks the damage to get you any decent cash flow, has terrible AoE for an AoE class, and feels outclassed by any other weapon. The 9mm is much more effective outside of it's ability to be used as an explosive slug at short range on weak targets.

The spread of the weapon at long range is too much for me to accurately use it for any purposes. Even when it does manage to spread in my favor and appears to hit targets multiple times, they appear hardly damaged. I don't think the micro charges even draw blood on Cysts on hard even if you pepper them with 4 or 5 of the charges.

The HX25 Grenade Pistol is the worst weapon I have ever used in a Killing Floor game, both from a "gun feel" perspective of how it feels to use it in game, as well as from a balance perspective based on it's damage output, ammo capacity and stock, and how generally ineffective it is against Zeds. Even a Varmint Rifle feels more useful for killing Gorefasts or Sirens to me.

Overall, this has put the Demo class into a similar position that I felt the Demo was in, in Killing Floor, until you leveled it up to around tier 4 or 5, where the Demo feels mostly useless until you reach a point where you can afford to at least obtain the first M79 grenade launcher as a more reasonable price. This is further amplified as a problem to me as not only do we lack any decent side arm related to our perk, but the only cheap option we have to purchase is C4.

As much as I love that it's pretty easy for me to buy C4, despite it being so potent for how much it costs, it makes playing a Demo become an absolute Hell for early waves, simply because of the terrible lack of any decent weaponry to get us through the early waves. As it stands currently, I can't see why anyone would want to start as a Demo, and not just swap perks after you've completed half of the waves in a match just to afford your first viable Demo weapon.

Also to add one positive note to my ranting: I enjoyed the little stamp on the C4 micro board that says "Horzino". I'm pretty sure that it's a reference to Arduino boards that I caught on to, and I approve.

And this ends my rant.

[|(°....°)m]

yup, just dont expect any wonder weapon.
still better than unload mags on zeds head. imo

its a start weapon / style choice
they are weak anyways.

[TweedleDee]

This weapon is indeed among the weaker of the starter weapons, if not the weakest.
But you can still do some nice stuff with it. I will give you some tips untill they completly fix the Demo class, since its so underpowered.
On hard you can easily 1 shot a siren from point blank, all you have to do is wait for the small window between the screams, and its easy as hell. At rank 15 you can get a perk that give you the ability ignore the screams, so bullets will 100% hit even if a scream is displayed.
The trick is not the aim at the enemies directly, aim the floor right next to them.
The direct hit does around 65% less dmg then the explsovie dmg followup(every 1 dmg of the bullet equal to 3 dmg of the explosion afterwards).
So aiming the floor will get you an easy 2-3 kills with 1 shot vs crawlers or cloths on hard difficulty.
gorefast is 1shot kill if pointblank on hard.
On normal you can even 1 shot a Husk if point blank, on hard its 1 shot + grenade.

The thing is, Demo is extremely underpowered.
playing as a Demo on HON is nearly impossible unless you have the perfect team because you can not defend yourself.
Our job is to take down the big hordes, sirens, and flashpunds(maybe husks also when you get the rpg).
On HOE it takes around 6-7 DIRECT hits to take down 1 flashpound, on wave 8+ you get at least 2 FP every wave.
Rpg dmg is just too weak against FP...It might look awesome when you destroy 2 sirens and 5 other weak enemies with 1 shot, but every other class can also deal with them with not too much effort.
Not even talking about the grenade launcher, which on Hard can't even take a Hust with 1 shot.
Demo is the slowest class out there, slowest reload speed, slow run speed, slow dmg reactions.
the thing that we are probebly the fastest at is leveling, in a few hourse you can go from 1 to 10 with all the assists we get.
Not even talking about the fact that we are completley USELESS vs Hans and we can not play in maps that we need lights to survive(since we destroy them even if we hit the floor).

The thing we need to remember is that tis still early access and all we can do is hope is a big balance work in the future.

Forgive me for not having a perfect english :)

[TomGoodwrenchSK]

For me it´s one of the most USEFUL weapons in the game. Pretty much an insta-kill for the Siren when used up-close, i love it :-)

[Suna]

Due to the small AoE clustered muntions and horizontal spread over the range. I had to actually side-stepping and flank to be effeective.

Very weak against tight areas like alleyways.

Unless they rework the impact on first round, followed by clustered muntions spillover to the rear.

[lPaladinl]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sunabonzu:

Due to the small AoE clustered muntions and horizontal spread over the range. I had to actually side-stepping and flank to be effeective.

Very weak against tight areas like alleyways.

Unless they rework the impact on first round, followed by clustered muntions spillover to the rear.

I noticed this as well. Unfortunately, sidestepping and flanking Zeds is not a situation you easily achieve in Singleplayer, let alone Multiplayer. Yes, you can sometimes use the map to your advantage, but for the most part Zeds are coming straight at you from all sides. They are funneled towards you in lines.

This makes the spread even more difficult to deal with, when you can otherwise use, say, the Tier 0 Shotgun for Supports, and much more easily kill more Zeds per shot of trash mobs thanks to Penetration and the general nature of Enemies and how they act.

Plus the fact that most maps happen to be full of loads and loads of hallways or otherwise hallway-like pathing.

[Mr Chicken]

Początkowo opublikowane przez TomLehocky (SVK):

For me it´s one of the most USEFUL weapons in the game. Pretty much an insta-kill for the Siren when used up-close, i love it :-)

This is sarcasm right?

Początkowo opublikowane przez Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel:

Taking damage at point blank range to kill a siren sounds like a fantastic plan :emofdr:

Well actually walking up to a Siren to kill it is a great tactic because it stops it from screaming, situational of course but it is a tactic used quite often.

[CosmicD]

I love using it, at level 10 it becomes very nice to pop groups of zeds, even slashers if someone is worling with you. And just shooting a siren the right time is very nice with it. It's my go to gun, i'd rather use it than the grenade launcher. Might as well go for a bullpop for intermediate and then rpg for hans. (plus c4 ofcourse)

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

personally I would like to see how the gun would perform if it's had bouncing grenade like the ORCA from the first killing floor.

having the grenade deal an Impact damage when it's hit a zeds before explosing.

[TweedleDee]

Początkowo opublikowane przez CosmicD:

I love using it, at level 10 it becomes very nice to pop groups of zeds, even slashers if someone is worling with you. And just shooting a siren the right time is very nice with it. It's my go to gun, i'd rather use it than the grenade launcher. Might as well go for a bullpop for intermediate and then rpg for hans. (plus c4 ofcourse)

True, most of the demo's just skip the grenade launcher and stick with the HX25 till they can afford the RPG-7.
Why to skip? It's dmg is very low and usually it takes only 1 more wave to get the RPG-7
This fact just shows you how bad the demo weapons are.

[Mr Chicken]

Początkowo opublikowane przez TweedleDee:

True, most of the demo's just skip the grenade launcher and stick with the HX25 till they can afford the RPG-7.
Why to skip? It's dmg is very low and usually it takes only 1 more wave to get the RPG-7
This fact just shows you how bad the demo weapons are.

The only reason that the Grenade Launcher is skipped is because the Demo is lacking in other weapons to support that weapon, in KF1 you had the M32 + M79 combo which was great for the Demo but in KF2 you cant do this which means the better option is to always go for the RPG because the Grenade Launcher is not meant to be a main gun, the Grenade Launcher is and always has been a secondary weapon.

As for the C4, well if you're level 25 you can just buy C4 before the RPG and just use the Nuke perk to gain a ton of dosh, Nuke is extremely good.

This is just a case of TWI making poor decisions on what weapons to add first, I think its quote obvious that TWI made the RPG the main gun so that they could get more players to join, they completely ignored the Demo's build/balance and just went for "HEY GUYS LOOK AN RPG, COME PLAY!". A rather sad/pathetic attempt at getting players to join, if they were smart and thought about the actual gameplay then the HX25 wouldn't even be in the game, the M79 would've been a starting item, C4 would be tier 2, M32 for tier 3 and RPG for tier 4.

[TweedleDee]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Τhe Rolling Cheese Wheel:

From experimenting this load out seems to work okay.

Microwave + Grenade Launcher.

Only really works at level 25, grenade launcher nukes are actually quite effective. The microwave because the microwave is the ultimate weapon. :emofdr:

What is my logic behind this loadout?

I specifically use demolition for it's super useful stun nades, easily the best and strongest nades in the game. It can't derage scrakes, but who cares about scrakes? You have the ultimate counter against it, the microwave gun. The most important thing is that it can stun FP's basically 100% of the time when used correctly, giving your ally time to hose it down with DPS.

The microwave can also be used to sweep trash if you happen to get surrounded since the grenade launcher obviously can't be used in close range.

The nuke perk for grenade launcher is nearly as effective as the RPG nuke. The radius is smaller, and it probably won't kill a scrake but it will kill all trash zeds in range like the RPG and it will soften the scrake just enough for allies to kill it with relative ease.

I can't understand you'r logic.
In this setup I see no reason to be a Demo, better go Firebug and be a lot more effective with the Microwave, the most effective weapon in the game.
RPG-7 + C4 is the common one for Demo.

[FALLENV3GAS]

*If its already been said I appologise*

It is starting equipment and incredible cheap. Hardly gonna be a game changer is it?

[Dagordae]

Początkowo opublikowane przez FALLENV3GAS:

*If its already been said I appologise*

It is starting equipment and incredible cheap. Hardly gonna be a game changer is it?

Doesn't need to be a game changer to not be trash.

Example, the pump shotgun. Starting weapon, weakest support, and yet it is actually useful. Or the medic pistol, better than the default 9mm and is worth keeping. Or the Zerker shovel, weak and the worst of their weapons but still worth using until you can upgrade.

The demo is just weak. If your class needs to be high/max level to be worth using then the class is bad.

[Slib]

When I fire the HX25 into a group of enemies it looks like they're staggering, but I'm fairly certain that they're actually laughing uproariously.

[lPaladinl]

Początkowo opublikowane przez FALLENV3GAS:

*If its already been said I appologise*

It is starting equipment and incredible cheap. Hardly gonna be a game changer is it?

And I feel like it's very trash even in comparison with the other starting weapons, like the Varmint Rifle, the Support Shotgun, the Caulk Flamethrower. I even find the Medic Pistol generally more useful.