Hell on Earth in a nutshell

[IMMINENT]

https://youtu.be/f3xnScnInvQ

This is why I generally play HoE solo. Very disheartening. Some players gotta get dem HoE achievements doe.

FYI I played this just to record the very best HoE tactic around.

Play on youtube for best quality.

Edit: I was being sarcastic.

[Xandão]

I don't mean to defend it because I also find it really boring (staircase camping in Catacombs might be the most tedious variation), but sans some singular, very specific techniques - like Zerk kiting FPs away from the group - this is just how HoE was done in KF1. It's a bit of a shame because KF2 seems like it was envisioned as a faster, "shoot and scoot" kind of game (hence the Zed teleports), but has so far failed to properly discourage this kind of tactic. The kind of camping shown in the video is demonstrably more efficient than having roaming Zerks and dynamic, improvisational player movement, even if the latter style of play is much more enjoyable.

[Kyukyu]

I only played 1 game of HoE on Catacombs and it was exactly like that. It was so boring it didn't want to make me try it again, I'll probably do it for the achievements once being the achievement ♥♥♥♥♥ I am but that's it.

[IMMINENT]

Originally posted by Suggestive:

I only played 1 game of HoE on Catacombs and it was exactly like that. It was so boring it didn't want to make me try it again, I'll probably do it for the achievements once being the achievement ♥♥♥♥♥ I am but that's it.

It is a shame. But the fact that HoE has a huge difficulty spike after suicidal and not enough variation with the difficulty settings, I am less enticed to play vanilla and play on community servers instead. I would love a difficulty mode and focuses on a lot of zeds with less damage than HoE.

Difficulty shouldnt really be linked too much on the amount of zeds that spawn and the increase in damage you receive that comes with it.

[UNLUCKY STAR]

thanks to the broken meele combat, zeds always stumble (except for scrakes) when hit by a meele weapon, even fleshpounds if you hit them in the head, combine that with the op zerk (200 hp + 70% more damage) and this happens, im not proud of that, hell kf1 had huge ballancing problems (zerk/sharp-players didnt need any backup in a six player server if they were using the right weaponry), but kf1 ballancing problems are like heaven compared to kf2´s problems:

-commando scar ammo costs just as much as aa12 ammo,
-medic can regenerate armor,
-m4 combat shotgun beeing garbage compared to all other support weapons,
-zed teleportation, hans volter bossfight overall (ridiculous close quarters damage, permanently charging players sometimes, doing the same fight four times),
-demo beeing completely useless without his nuke (support does more dps to fleshpounds with his tier 4 gun, and every class can take care of scrakes just as fast with the right weaponry, except for the medic, at least in my case).
-useless skills (oh boy 10% faster reload or letting my teammates be able to see cloaked units, decisions, decisions, too bad both are pretty useless when playing solo, and only one of these two is useful when playing cooperative(, its beeing able to see cloaked zeds),
-stumble or quick reload (stumble is completely useless for me since you are able to hear the enemies once they attack and quickly kill them before they damage anyone)? oh boy sure i want to stumble a fleshpound once instead of beeing able to reload faster with all my perk guns (seriously you can kill the most trash zeds with 3 to 5 shots with the tier 3/4 guns of the commando, why should i use stumble if they die after 2 sec anyway.

[IMMINENT]

Originally posted by COLONEL FEUERBUSCH:

thanks to the broken meele combat, zeds always stumble (except for scrakes) when hit by a meele weapon, even fleshpounds if you hit them in the head, combine that with the op zerk (200 hp + 70% more damage) and this happens, im not proud of that, hell kf1 had huge ballancing problems (zerk/sharp-players didnt need any backup in a six player server if they were using the right weaponry), but kf1 ballancing problems are like heaven compared to kf2´s problems:

-commando scar ammo costs just as much as aa12 ammo,
-medic can regenerate armor,
-m4 combat shotgun beeing garbage compared to all other support weapons,
-zed teleportation, hans volter bossfight overall (ridiculous close quarters damage, permanently charging players sometimes, doing the same fight four times),
-demo beeing completely useless without his nuke (support does more dps to fleshpounds with his tier 4 gun, and every class can take care of scrakes just as fast with the right weaponry, except for the medic, at least in my case).
-useless skills (oh boy 10% faster reload or letting my teammates be able to see cloaked units, decisions, decisions, too bad both are pretty useless when playing solo, and only one of these two is useful when playing cooperative, its beeing able to see cloaked zeds), stumble or quick reload (stumble is completely useless for me since you are able to hear the enemies once they attack and quickly kill them before they damage anyone)? oh boy sure i want to stumble a fleshpound once instead of beeing able to reload faster with all my perk guns (seriously you can kill the most trash zeds with 3 to 5 shots with the tier 3/4 guns of the commando, why should i use stumble if they die after 2 sec anyway.

I agree with most of this. I think twi shot themselves in the foot with perk skills. So much treading into unknown territory here.

[Kyukyu]

Originally posted by FridgeFreezer123:

I would love a difficulty mode and focuses on a lot of zeds with less damage than HoE.

Me too, though zeds should give you less experience per unit in such a mode then otherwise you would level up way too fast.

[LSA King]

Originally posted by Xandão:

I don't mean to defend it because I also find it really boring (staircase camping in Catacombs might be the most tedious variation), but sans some singular, very specific techniques - like Zerk kiting FPs away from the group - this is just how HoE was done in KF1. It's a bit of a shame because KF2 seems like it was envisioned as a faster, "shoot and scoot" kind of game (hence the Zed teleports), but has so far failed to properly discourage this kind of tactic. The kind of camping shown in the video is demonstrably more efficient than having roaming Zerks and dynamic, improvisational player movement, even if the latter style of play is much more enjoyable.

Yeah, I think it looks worse in KF2 because of the speed increase on both sides of the fence, gameplay changes from KF1, and lack of multipliers. Perhaps a few other things, but this isn't that far off from KF1 just really sped up. If your idea of playing HoE is spread out or going Han Solo in a 6 man match like you can on Hard or even Suicidal to some extent, then I'd have to ask what your idea of HoE was in the first place.

It's almost always been SUPER CAMPY to the extreme if you will. Movement was almost always a bad idea unless it was well coordinated at a specific time and you didn't need 2 Zerkers, you could get by with one. It's not fun I'll give you that, but I never thought the higher difficulties were fun on KF1 myself either. They were just a matter of pin point accuracy and endurance marathons for the most part that could take hours. I'd like to hear what people would like for HoE 2.0 to be. Removing camping would be a bad idea and before the update it wasn't like people were doing the exact same thing.

[Zep]

Zerk walling has sadly become the meta for the game. I don't see how anyone can see this as skillful play, but at the same time you can't fault them for using a technique that works. I usually just do my own thing, but if someone is trying to get the achievement and I know it, I will reluctantly try to help out.

Imo this is all because of the current lack of real mechanics and the zerk and a few other classes being op atm.

As far as kiting (movment) being a bad idea, thats just not true. I can remember kiting countless maps with skillful players of various classes other than zerk. It really comes down to what players are comfortable with and capable of.

Like I said its a pretty lame tactic, but it does work. Maybe Tripwire should balance monster and player mechanics so that there are more skillful and varied ways players can win besides standing behind a wall of blades and hammers.

Either way I think as the community becomes more skillful and players are a bit more confident, you will start to see some new tactics emerge from boredom if nothing else.

[Zep]

Originally posted by abugaj:

I just joined a game where 3 guys were in a cubby hole 2 zerks and a medic i came in as a commando and they told me to go medic so i left. Not my idea of fun but if you just want the chevo go for it.

It's a sad day when such events occur. Its got to the point where if you are not zerk,medic,firebug or demo players see you as useless which is totally not true.

I don't want to make this sound common place because I don't feel it is, but I saw one server that had "No Commandos" in the server discription.

I would also like to add that I'm opposed to higher difficulties above HoE. If HoE is to be the hardest difficulty and players are finding it too easy, then it needs to be made harder. You can't keep adding difficulties because players become better at the game, but you can make the hardest difficulty stand up to its lable.

[LSA King]

Originally posted by abugaj:

I just joined a game where 3 guys were in a cubby hole 2 zerks and a medic i came in as a commando and they told me to go medic so i left. Not my idea of fun but if you just want the chevo go for it.

Be honest. You left because you feared the vote kick lol. Don't blame you. Previously I'd just blow these people off telling me how I should/should not play. Now you literally have to kiss peoples asses in a PvE game just so you don't get the boot.

Butthole is clenched playing anything below Suicidal as a high level. Already had multiple attempts/boots before and during a match because of it.

[Whispers Murmurs Voices Purpose]

There is one VERY easy way to fix this kind of behavior: Spitter from L4D2. Make the AoE damage linger and increase over time, and people will be literally forced to move, or die.
Of course... TWI said that both ways of playing will be viable (kiting/camping), and they are.

[Ace]

Early. Access. There's a lot of work to be done to the game, and there's still a lot of time to do it. Once all the perks are released, they'll ease the game in the right direction one step at a time.

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

I really hope that they find a way to make the game more challenging in a creative way rather then just making the zeds stronger or perk weaker's.

[DuckieMcduck]

From the Berserker perspective it looks fun. Should have taken the video from the medic's perspective.

[Munchies]

Thats what Role Playing gets you.

Bring back the combos. Make each class unique with a different way to deal with FP and SC and leave all that Tank, Healer, DPS to MMOs and RPGs.

Make KF2 a good shooter and not an RPG.

I don't wan't perk skills, I don't want XP grinding, I don't want Roles. It have all come down to - have a Tank and a Medic - 99% win, Don't have one of those 2 Roles - 99% lose.