A serious question, but what weapons actually ARE pay to win?

[Aya]

After some discussion with my IRL peers, they seem to think that KF2 has become a pay-to-win game, though I dunno if that's actually the case. The weapons they mentioned were the Glock 18 (SWAT), Glock 18 (Gunslinger) and Ion Thruster and tbh, i feel like i'd only agree with the Gunslinger Glocks being P2W.

If i were to look at all the individual weapons:

Rhinos: Shotgun revolvers for Gunslinger. I guess it's more or less a sidegrade to the deagle if you want a better trash cleaner than the HM101/HX25/1858s/1911s, though having to shoot the ground for ammo fragmentation will most likely deny you of ReU damage boosts.

Ion Thruster: Yes, it's better than the battleaxe but that isn't really that hard to do. On the other hand, I feel like all Tier 3/4/5 melee weapons will have the downside of not being the Hemoclobber since Berserker's primary job is to take damage rather than dish it out. The Hemoclobber's self-healing capabilities on heavy attack further compliment this role

Moist Nugget: it's about as useful as one. Centerfire has a significantly better rate of fire and the damage dished out by the Nagant doesn't make up for the RoF difference. If you absolutely need a stopgap towards the FAL or Railgun, I think the crossbow fills that niche much better even considering the xbow's relatively short range.

Glock-18 (SWAT): It's a perk weapon for probably the worst perk in the game. I think my biggest issue is how ADS is tied to the blocking mechanic, which obstructs your vision in a slightly worse way than the Bone Crusher did. I'd mention the Vector and HRG Nailgun but overall, even a Berserker with the Crovel Survival Tool would be slightly better at zerkwalling than a SWAT holding up his shield because you can actually parry with melee weapons and the Eviscerator (Spoiler alert: Parrying will always be better than holding down the block button). If for whatever reason you want to spam REQUEST DOSH to waste your teammates' money, the HRG Nailgun and Vector are more useful options.

Compound Bow: Probably NOT the worst addition to the game and given its cost, weight and damage, I guess it's more or less overtuned. I guess thinking on how KF2 plays when juxtaposed with the Sharpshooter's arsenal, I guess it's in an OK spot cuz it has the downside of not being the FAL.

Glock-18 (Gunslinger): It's a full auto weapon that benefits from Rack 'em Up, Skullcracker and Gunslinger's movement speed. Ammo pool is also generous enough to be an anti-everything weapon, too. Definitely P2W, I think. One thing that personally annoys me though is that the singular glock is on the Secondary slot rather than Primary.

Blunderbuss: This would probably require a bit of testing on my part, but from my experience in using it, it seems like a slightly better take on a Seeker/Kaboomstick/HM101 combo, cuz the cannonball fragments can actually deal decent damage against scrakes and the actual cannonballs themselves aren't too much of a slouch. Would need to bring the Blunderbuss to the boss wave to see for myself, though I can imagine this thing being a better all-rounder the Seeker but still worse at takedowns than the more specialized RPG. Slight nerfs are probably warranted.

Minigun: Yeah, I think this is the absolute worst of the paid weapons. Got to try it before Beta 2 and I already don't like the mouse sensitivity penalty when you're firing this gun. Now with the gun actually having a damage type, I can't see this being a viable option at all, cuz while it reloads faster than the Stoner, you can still at least make quick turns with the LMG, but both guns are outclassed by the FAL and Medic Rifle combo.

Mine Reconstructor: Really dunno what to make of this, cuz it's not all too easy to get info on how medic weapons function in solo games

BTW, i'm not making this thread to defend paid weapons, though I feel like this is a discussion worth having as to what weapons seem overtuned or outright OP just cuz a player paid money for them. Nobody likes pay to win mechanics, so talking about how a weapon is or isn't pay to win is probably a good idea.

[Poor huwhyte Carl]

GS glocks are subpar, I disagree with putting them into P2W, primarily because of horrible spread.

[m550]

Honestly, none of them are p2w worthy.

But surely are overpriced flexy leftovers.

Even closet worthy weapons like g18c, glock with riot shield, mosin, ion thruster still only worths around $5-7 at most value.

If they drop down all dlc weapons price tag to $2-3, then dlc weapons I mentioned earlier could be considered as p2w weapons.
(which is impossible since they had some "reasons" to maintain that high af price tag :kappa:)

[Aya]

Originally posted by m550:

Honestly, none of them are p2w worthy.

But surely are overpriced flexy leftovers.

Even closet worthy weapons like g18c, glock with riot shield, mosin, ion thruster still only worths around $5-7 at most value.

If they drop down all dlc weapons price tag to $2-3, then dlc weapons I mentioned earlier could be considered as p2w weapons.
(which is impossible since they had some "reasons" to maintain that high af price tag :kappa:)

Price tags wouldn't decide whether or not a weapon is pay to win, but rather the stats that a weapon has when juxtaposed with the base game's offerings and the fact that you need to spend Steam Wallet funds. I've mentioned that the Blunderbuss is treading on that territory since it fills a similar niche to the Seeker 6's versatility but does it better thanks to the ability to shoot broken cannonballs as an improptu shotgun, but isn't nearly as egregious as the Gunslinger glocks

[Скіф]

I feel like Ion thruster is kinda p2w. Ever since i got it in that humble bundle Ive been destroying with it, its so strong.

[m550]

Originally posted by Aya Shameimaru:

Originally posted by m550:

Honestly, none of them are p2w worthy.

But surely are overpriced flexy leftovers.

Even closet worthy weapons like g18c, glock with riot shield, mosin, ion thruster still only worths around $5-7 at most value.

If they drop down all dlc weapons price tag to $2-3, then dlc weapons I mentioned earlier could be considered as p2w weapons.
(which is impossible since they had some "reasons" to maintain that high af price tag :kappa:)

Price tags wouldn't decide whether or not a weapon is pay to win, but rather the stats that a weapon has when juxtaposed with the base game's offerings and the fact that you need to spend Steam Wallet funds. I've mentioned that the Blunderbuss is treading on that territory since it fills a similar niche to the Seeker 6's versatility but does it better thanks to the ability to shoot broken cannonballs as an improptu shotgun, but isn't nearly as egregious as the Gunslinger glocks

If you really think about that, here's my standard as if there's any P2W weapon in KF2 besides price tag:

1.Compare to the same variation perk weapons and see if that can done the same job with lesser 25-30% actions or absurdly have way more fault tolerance performing the same action.

2.Or see if there's no huge difference as let a non-perk player using dlc perk weapon while the perk player picks the same comparison.(a non dlc weapon but performs same role)

Still, if the price set waaaay to expensive than it's true power worth.
Then it's more like a wasted disposal for your wallet than actual P2W stuff.
And yes, that's my optional opinion.

[JimmyIowa]

Originally posted by 100% huwhyte healing darts:

GS glocks are subpar, I disagree with putting them into P2W, primarily because of horrible spread.

Yep, as GS I'll take a Af2011 rather than glock18c any game.

2011 upgraded to + 1 (so that is same weight as glock) actually has higher dps (2x the dmg per bullet, and 2 bullets per trigger pull), while maintaining vastly lower spread, and vastly lower recoil. You get 2 ReU counts per trigger pull, and I can easily pull the trigger 3 times in about the same fraction of a second that you can fire a burst of glock18.

Though to its credit, glock has a faster reload time and slightly more dmg per magazine, but this doesn't matter with the glock. Normally more dmg per mag would mean fewer reloads per kill. But with the glocks there's two things that make this not true. High fire rate means you tend to over burst fire for some zeds (fire more bullets than needed, thius wasting mag capacity). And inaccuracy means you miss more. So in practice, you will very likely spend more time reloading with the glock18c not less.

Overall, experienced GS says - Glock18c is a flashy gimmick which fools people who don't usually play gunslinger. Even if it's not exactly subpar, it is at best an expensive and wildly inaccurate sidegrade to existing non-dlc weapons. And probably, yes, solidly sub-par unless you always fire at melee range with your gunslinger (which probably means you suck as gunslinger).

[Poor huwhyte Carl]

I agree, good comment, all true, except I'd like to comment on this:

Originally posted by JimmyIowa:

Though to its credit, glock has a faster reload time...

That's not exactly the case. Tactical reloads are faster on dual g18c, but at higher levels of play tactical reloads on AFs barely matter as their dry reloads with cancelling are blazingly fast with yuuuge cancelling savings (>1 s).

Once you are used to reload cancel them while dry you just either don't use tactical at all, of if there seemingly nothing to shoot at you start the tactical, but cancel it immediately (without ammo add) if you see something, fully empty your mags, do dries with cancelling blazingly fast and you can even do it in the middle of FP takedown with no major negative repercussions.

With cancelling the dries on AFs are just 0.9 seconds, dual G18cs are nowhere close.

[JimmyIowa]

Originally posted by 100% huwhyte healing darts:

Tactical reloads are faster on dual g18c, but at higher levels of play tactical reloads on AFs barely matter as their dry reloads with cancelling are blazingly fast with yuuuge cancelling savings (>1 s).

Good call. I stand corrected on the reload time comparison.

[Psycho Dad]

The Rhinos arent a sidegrade to the Deagles, they are a sidegrade to T3 1911s or 1858s; which both are better. You cant have this awful reload time on a 12 shooter and expect it to be a good trash killer. So what you get those gimmicky shards? They fly off in an unpredictible and huge spread, you'll do much better just hitting heads with the other weapons.
To make them somewhat ok they need a faster reload (~15 % faster) and 80 damage minimum.

Glocks arent that hot either. The spread is way too much. They dont flinch lock Scrakes. 4kg per pistol is also too much. They arent flat out garbage like the Rhinos but still hilariously overrated by people who usually dont play GS.

None of the dlc is p2w.

[JimmyIowa]

Originally posted by Restless Dreams:

They better be P2W, seriously.
Didn't make the weapons powerful - hurr durr P2W.
Made the weapons powerful - hurr durr P2W.
So what's the difference? Childrens will cry anyway.
And so there would be more reason and sense to buy weapons for KF 2. At a discount at least.

Nah, p2w is bad because if one weapon is clearly better than all others then that perk ONLY ever plays that weapon. This has 2 bad effects. It kills variety instead of increasing it, since now the meta is one weapon. And you will be kicked if you play something else for fun, sort of like survivalist now.

Besides, p2w is an obvious cash grab which makes it clear devs are more interested in milking money from the community instead of offering variety.

[Pimpin Pippin]

I do not have the $ to get paid weapons (eastern europe ftw...) but i am a huge fan of flexibility and variety in games.

Thanks for this thread, it makes it a lot easier to consider which weapons to perhaps buy when on a sale.

[Iris Kis Kis]

Dual Glocks are really fun. Last few days i playing only with them. Trash killing machine.

[Gunthak]

None of them represent the difference between victory and defeat, and none of them assure victory where non-paid weapons would not, but certainly a couple of them have attributes which, when properly exploited, are fairly advantageous.

[Prinny]

....i have yet to find any "new" weapon to buy anywhere in the game store and steam store. it's been years and people talk about "paid dlc weapon" like it's not cosmetic...
but doesn't exist anywhere. from my perspective you're all crazy people under hallucinogens..

How do you even find those? Why are they never sold on steam store or in-game store? Am I simply blind and they're drowned in the boxes list or something?

[Aya]

Originally posted by The Zebu:

....i have yet to find any "new" weapon to buy anywhere in the game store and steam store. it's been years and people talk about "paid dlc weapon" like it's not cosmetic...
but doesn't exist anywhere. from my perspective you're all crazy people under hallucinogens..

How do you even find those? Why are they never sold on steam store or in-game store? Am I simply blind and they're drowned in the boxes list or something?

They're found in the in-game store under "Cosmetics", ignore the fact that they aren't actually cosmetic items.