Is M4 that bad?

[Borgar Cat]

Some people think that M4 shotgun is bad.

Well, this shotgun has pretty great accuracy and range and it's buckshot spread with Tight Choke is so tight that you can think this gun shoots slugs.

So, why it's still considered as gimmick?

And yeah, should this thing to have more buffs and maybe AA12 and double barrel could get a nerf?

[FALLENV3GAS]

It's been buffed a while back. It's better but personally I would rather use a DB and then save up for an AA-12.

[The Man Who Erased His Name]

LOL M4 SUCKS cuz the recoil. LOW-capacity magazine

[Jam]

The spread isn't any tighter than the AA12 or sg500 but it feels a lot snipier due to the extra damage.
It's a nice gun but sort of suboptimal overall compared to other weapons. The DBS and AA12 are silly powerful and you can't carry both those two AND the aa12 so it tends to see very little use.

I like it and use it fairly often but it doesn't have a place in a lot of fancy loadouts. I think if they added more 7+ weight weapons to support then people'd use it more.

[spearten.com]

M4 is not a bad weapon. But you can cover so many areas easily just using an AA12 and a DBS on big zeds. And if you have good, consistent accuracy, you can even take out Scrakes pretty darn quick with the AA12 (with headshots of course, tight choke helps a lot).

M4 is great, but then you get caught reloading. A popular arguement in support of the relod is that you do not have to pause to reload a mag, and can always be reloaded. Problem is, when you get a heavy influx of zeds pushing you, eventually, you will get to a point where you are down to like a shell or 2 and you keep having to shoot, reload and repeat over and over. Whereas with the AA12, you dump a mag, spend barely more than 2 seconds reloading, and you're good to go.

And because people want to really go for the AA12 and DBS combo, that means choosing the M4 would mean that either of the two weapons just mentioned would have to be replaced. And I usually buy the HZ12 first and use it to save up to buy the AA12 and DBS later. With all three of those weapons and at max level, I can also carry a HM-Tech 101 to help heal my team. This gives me so much versatility and control over the situation that an M4 isn't needed. The M4 however will help eliminate enemies like the Husk faster and from further away, but when the trash zeds keep pushing and the SWAT or Commando on the team isn't being useful, using the M4 will get you pushed back pretty far. When you empty the AA12 and reload, you can push right back into the zeds and gain ground, not having to worry about reloading every time you shoot. If you do have the M4, you have to always take advantage of periods where zeds are far enough for you to reload the weapon completely. Not only that, it definitely has the most hard to control recoil of all the shotguns, so if you were to try and fire it like the AA12, you will have some trouble trying to control it.

The weapon would serve better as an alternative to the HZ12 and weigh 6, so you would choose either a more damaging medium zed killer or a mag-fed shotgun that is good for trash and an extra slot for healing.

[Borgar Cat]

Originally posted by ByTheNineDivines,StayontheRoads:

M4 is not a bad weapon. But you can cover so many areas easily just using an AA12 and a DBS on big zeds. And if you have good, consistent accuracy, you can even take out Scrakes pretty darn quick with the AA12 (with headshots of course, tight choke helps a lot).

M4 is great, but then you get caught reloading. A popular arguement in support of the relod is that you do not have to pause to reload a mag, and can always be reloaded. Problem is, when you get a heavy influx of zeds pushing you, eventually, you will get to a point where you are down to like a shell or 2 and you keep having to shoot, reload and repeat over and over. Whereas with the AA12, you dump a mag, spend barely more than 2 seconds reloading, and you're good to go.

And because people want to really go for the AA12 and DBS combo, that means choosing the M4 would mean that either of the two weapons just mentioned would have to be replaced. And I usually buy the HZ12 first and use it to save up to buy the AA12 and DBS later. With all three of those weapons and at max level, I can also carry a HM-Tech 101 to help heal my team. This gives me so much versatility and control over the situation that an M4 isn't needed. The M4 however will help eliminate enemies like the Husk faster and from further away, but when the trash zeds keep pushing and the SWAT or Commando on the team isn't being useful, using the M4 will get you pushed back pretty far. When you empty the AA12 and reload, you can push right back into the zeds and gain ground, not having to worry about reloading every time you shoot. If you do have the M4, you have to always take advantage of periods where zeds are far enough for you to reload the weapon completely. Not only that, it definitely has the most hard to control recoil of all the shotguns, so if you were to try and fire it like the AA12, you will have some trouble trying to control it.

The weapon would serve better as an alternative to the HZ12 and weigh 6, so you would choose either a more damaging medium zed killer or a mag-fed shotgun that is good for trash and an extra slot for healing.

Nerf AA12 and DBS

[Jam]

Originally posted by Konrad The Big Cat:

Nerf AA12 and DBS

It's impossible to nerf things without making people really really really really really angry. They'd be angry at tripwire for making their favourite OP guns less OP and they'd be angry at the m4 for causing the nerf.

However, I'd suggest increasing the price of the AA12 and decreasing the reload speed of the DBS, as well as making the HZ12 a 7-8 weight T3-4, with an alt fire that you can use instead of the DBS, but it would cause people to scream.

Problem would I guess just be people taking the AA12 with the fancier HZ12 and ignoring everything else.

On a similar note, I'd reduce the nailgun price to maybe 400. Make it a true poverty shotgun.

[BROLY 32]

Why nerf support ? The class is in a decent shape right now.

[spearten.com]

Originally posted by Konrad The Big Cat:

Nerf AA12 and DBS

Why nerf things that work? Are shotguns supposed to not kill things now?

[Amplifier]

It's not bad. The problems start and end at "it's the poor man's AA12." There's very little reason to spend the 1200 on the M4 when the Boomstick is god tier for 400 and the AA12 is 300 times better than the M4 for only 300 more Dosh.
Stand alone, the M4 is good. It's great, even! It's just that it's standing between the AA12 and the Boomstick. And when you put a guy who casually lifts weights between Mike Tyson and Mohamed Ali, they're going to look like a fatass.

[spearten.com]

Originally posted by Octavia the Festive Ninetales:

It's not bad. The problems start and end at "it's the poor man's AA12." There's very little reason to spend the :Dosh:1200 on the M4 when the Boomstick is god tier for :Dosh:400 and the AA12 is 300 times better than the M4 for only 300 more Dosh.
Stand alone, the M4 is good. It's great, even! It's just that it's standing between the AA12 and the Boomstick. And when you put a guy who casually lifts weights between Mike Tyson and Mohamed Ali, they're going to look like a fatass.

M4 = 1100
Boomstick = 650
AA12 = 1500

[spearten.com]

The boomstick/DBS should be Support's tier 3 at 1100 dosh. Then the M4 should be around the same tier as the HZ12 and weigh 6.

[Amplifier]

Meh so I got the prices wrong. I don't have this ♥♥♥♥ memorized and I'm not about to go and check it.
But on topic: No. From a purely 100% objective standpoint looking just at DPS numbers, the Boomstick is worse than the M4. The problem is that the Boomstick weighs 4 and also deals an arseload of damage and knockback.
The Boomstick honestly just needs a damage nerf. It has needed a damage nerf for a long-ass time now.

[spearten.com]

Originally posted by Octavia the Festive Ninetales:

Meh so I got the prices wrong. I don't have this ♥♥♥♥ memorized and I'm not about to go and check it. :etgpilot:
But on topic: No. From a purely 100% objective standpoint looking just at DPS numbers, the Boomstick is worse than the M4. The problem is that the Boomstick weighs 4 and also deals an arseload of damage and knockback.
The Boomstick honestly just needs a damage nerf. It has needed a damage nerf for a long-ass time now.

The DBS does not need a damage nerf. It is just a good weapon but it is really inexpensive for the power it has. If it had a damage nerf, I'm assuming then it would be 4 alt-fire shots on a scrake to kill it (all shots connecting to the head), and then 8 on a single fleshpound.

The weapon would suck balls if it got nerfed in damage.

And not everybody can easily kill the scrakes in just 2 shots. Many people mess up and get torn apart.

[Amplifier]

Yeah but... should a tier 2 gun be able to 4 shot a Scrake? And inversely: should a tier 3 gun fire slower and have a smaller clip size than your starting tier 1 gun?
I'm not asking for the Boomstick's damage to be halved (from 4 shots to 8) but perhaps reduced by 25% (6 shots) or even just 15% (5 shots) would be fine.
I think having a tier 2 gun that can instantly kill any mid-class Zeds (Sirens, Gorefasts/Fiends, and Bloats [with a headshot]) is fine, but having a tier 2 gun that can solo Scrakes is kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[龍]

If I can carry AA+DBS+M4, that would be perfect