My response to the Helios nerf (also, an alternative to the inevitable Firebug nerf)

[Aya]

The price increase for the Helios feels more like a nerf TBH. Knowing Tripwire's direction with the Firebug, I think it'd be worth mentioning my idea for what i think would be best for Firebug:

Helios

Price reduced to 1500
Ammo reduced to 40+280
Damage increased to 65 (was 40)
Upgrade to Level 1 reinstated

Microwave Gun

Beam impact damage increased to 30 (was 16)
Max ammo decreased to 100+300
Can headshot (Caulk and FT can)

Husk Cannon

Base Damage increased to 120 (was 80)
Max ammo decreased to 20+160
Can spawn ground fires if 2 or more ammo units was consumed (initially required a full charge)
Can Headshot (required for most of Demolitionist's skills)

Flamethrower

Damage increased to 30 (was 18)
Ammo decreased to 100+300

Caulk n' Burn

Damage increased to 18 (was 10)
Ammo decreased to 50+250

[Leon]

they are OKish as they are, really bad idea to nerf their ammo pool to get dps, when they dont need it. trash die fast enough, why should they cripple a perk that kills trash easily, by removing 1/3rd of their ammo to give it damage that it doesn't need?

[Aya]

Originally posted by Leon:

they are OKish as they are, really bad idea to nerf their ammo pool to get dps, when they dont need it. trash die fast enough, why should they cripple a perk that kills trash easily, by removing 1/3rd of their ammo to give it damage that it doesn't need?

The alternative is for the Firebug to deal so little damage that the only viable option is to mindlessly spam their flames in order to deal ANY amount of damage at all. And Tripwire has nerfed the firebug multiple times to that point of dealing so little damage.

The increase in damage and decrease in ammo capacity means that the Firebug would be more reliant on DoT ticks and short controlled bursts. For clots or stalkers that survive those bursts, the prudent move would be to finish them off with the knife's light attacks or in a team setting, have a Commando or Medic pick 'em off. (You'll still get most of the money since you did the most damage)

[Leon]

tap fire, dont spam it.

[screeno42]

I'm gonna want to try the helios tweeks before commenting on them, but on the others:

MWG: I feel a damage increase would help the weapon, but 30 may be too much. The ammo should absolutely not be reduced, it needs that between the primary fire's area control and altfire's ammo requirements. As for the headshots, I'm pretty sure it already can headshot(at least, the altfire definitely can).

HC: These sound great, though I'm pretty sure the bug fixes have already given it the ability to headshot.

FF&CNB: They're fine as they are. If you want weapons with better immediate damage, that's what the ballistic weapons are for.

[Artemis Entreri]

In b4 nerf.

[Aya]

Originally posted by Leon:

tap fire, dont spam it.

The thing is, we're on the buff side of the Firebug's buff/nerf cycle. What i'm suggesting is that instead of Tripwire doing the usual "Nerf Firebug's damage so that you HAVE to spam", make it so that the next Firebug nerf actually INCREASES the FB's damage output for non-bullet weapons, but also decreasing ammo so that you're more reliant on DoT, tap firing and knife finishers.

This could potentially break the Firebug's endless cycle of buffing and nerfing

[HiTmAn]

u wish to demolish perk...

[Gunner Teemo]

Helios rifle is now balanced. All i cared about was to get an extra mag for both the Helios and the Killerwatt.

[Olly (Old)]

Even after this nerf its still broken. It does way too much damage. You can mag dump kill anything non-boss. (talking hell on earth)

[pathulhu]

Originally posted by falconpunch444:

Even after this nerf its still broken. It does way too much damage. You can mag dump kill anything non-boss. (talking hell on earth)

either it stays this way or if it gets nerfed then commando shouldn't do it either

[spearten.com]

Originally posted by pathulhu:

Originally posted by falconpunch444:

Even after this nerf its still broken. It does way too much damage. You can mag dump kill anything non-boss. (talking hell on earth)

either it stays this way or if it gets nerfed then commando shouldn't do it either

Hopefully stays and Commando shouldn't be able to do the same so easily by just spamming the FAL in a Fleshpound's face. The FAL should get the Helios treatment if you ask me.

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

I honestly like the changes though the damage was a bit overkill but hey
the weight
THE WEIGHT IS WHAT I LIKE THAT THEY KEPT SAME.
you can still carry a flamethrower and a helios rifle.

[Max447]

Originally posted by I ♥♥♥♥ in the BED:

Originally posted by pathulhu:

either it stays this way or if it gets nerfed then commando shouldn't do it either

Hopefully stays and Commando shouldn't be able to do the same so easily by just spamming the FAL in a Fleshpound's face. The FAL should get the Helios treatment if you ask me.

Problem is FAL is originally a sharpshooter weapon. If they nerf it, it'll be useless on sharp. It's impossible to balance it for both commando and sharp

[spearten.com]

Originally posted by Max447:

Originally posted by I ♥♥♥♥ in the BED:

Hopefully stays and Commando shouldn't be able to do the same so easily by just spamming the FAL in a Fleshpound's face. The FAL should get the Helios treatment if you ask me.

Problem is FAL is originally a sharpshooter weapon. If they nerf it, it'll be useless on sharp. It's impossible to balance it for both commando and sharp

FAL shouldn't even be a Sharpshooter weapon. Automatic weapons do not fit with the perk. FAL should be a tier 5 Commando weapon and get 2 more mags at most, while keeping tier 4 stats.

[spearten.com]

Originally posted by Leon:

they are OKish as they are, really bad idea to nerf their ammo pool to get dps, when they dont need it. trash die fast enough, why should they cripple a perk that kills trash easily, by removing 1/3rd of their ammo to give it damage that it doesn't need?

I agree with this. Nerfing the ammo to increase damage is redundant when Firebug already melts trash, and doesn't need more damage with those weapon types. It's not like it would help with larger targets either unless you want to kill a bloat or rioter slightly faster, but not really noticeable.

Helios changes are fine, the tier 5 upgrade was so powerful on the gun that is was practically a tier 7 at that point. Blah blah I've said this so many times in other posts that you can still effectively kill large zeds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9DTiPFsOo

Leon is a smart person that understands how things work in-game. It seems like everybody else just looks at numbers and thinks the world is over when it is apparent that they haven't even tried to use it yet. Meanwhile this vid obviously shows how wrong everybody is about the gun being bad now.