Survivalist discussion, good or bad? Best uses? Optimized loadouts?

[Ziggylata]

Hello, in this thread id like everyone to share what they think about Survivalist in a constructive and optimistic or pessemistic outlook. What does the perk do right and wrong? Whats the best case scenario? Whats your experience with the class?

Ive tried out a lot of classes in Killing Floor 2 and there arent a ton I enjoy playing, not that its the games fault, im a very niche and picky type of person who usually finds one or two things and sticks with them like glue. The three classes I really enjoy are Support, Commando and Survivalist, with Commando usually being my best fit. I can play medic very well too but I just dont enjoy babysitting pubs.

Survivalist in my brief and uneducated opinion is very good at surviving and what I feel he excells at is his complex wide-range aresonal of trash clearing and big zed specialty weapons, with the perk that increases your weight to 20. He can easily conserve ammo with the melee skill and can cover in the absense of a medic. I already know hes “a jack of all trades master of none” that everyone says but I think theres more too it than that, I dont think any other perk really excells at just holding on, being incredibly versatile in matches.

Really, all my problems come down to lack of damage in a game where kill times are important. In solo it almost doesnt matter as you can drag it out as long as youd like but that doesnt apply in multiplayer, especially in pubs.

What skills do you prefer and with what loadouts? What roles do you play and how do you cover for its weaknesses (trash killer when a big zed shows up)?


I look forward to reading what more experienced players feel on this subject, I dont have a ton of time on this game myself, not to say im bad, just uneducated.

[♿]

Load out: Med rifle launcher, Bone Crusher (Upgrade), and C4

Perk skills: L/R/R/L (Level 25 perk skill hasn’t unlock)

Bone Crusher is main, i use this weapon very often for dealing trash zeds, mid zeds and Big zeds, including bosses parry their attacks

C4 it is oftenly used of FP or QP or King FP

Med rifle launcher is the least used weapon for me playing as survivalist, I only use them in case when endless mode event wave is “Boom”, and you know... self healing

Mainly focus: Melee parrying (Berserker as survivalist)
-Tank

[Two Clicks]

Commando and Support are two of the core perks of the game and thus why you probably find them fun to play. They have to be the dependable pillars that the one shot giantkillers need to balance the team.

As for survivalist Ill be pretty brief but Ill say what Ive been saying since its release...... if ppl find it weak(er) than other perks to play then all well and good. I find alot of the other perks boring to play cause there isnt much of a challenge there as most of the core perks are pretty much balanced. At least for my skill and experience. (2k hrs) Id wager that unlike most players I enjoy changing my survivalist setup across its many options.

So its nice we have a perk (survivalist) that limited. Thats an allrounder. With skills that can be pick and mixed. Would have preferred a completely configurable set of skills over 5 levels but.... its not meant to be. As it is I enjoy its limited customisation options but really enjoy the challenge it presents in 6 player or solo games on HoE.

[Ryukan]

Hmm... Its important to always keep changing your skills to fit your needs for every phase of the game.

I like the m16(tier5), freezethrower(tier4) and katana. Why?

It gives you a insta takedown on both FP and Scrakes on HoE 6 players, you can decap them in like 3-4 seconds without taking dmg.

M16 shells + lockdown + things go boom + zed time reload + tactical reload gives you crazy crowd control on zed time ( you can stop raging FPs and Scrakes, also knocking out pretty much everything in a huge area), shells can easily disable scrakes, have nearly the same effective AoE of a RPG when it comes to trash killing thanks to the things go boom, high "pure" shell dmg.

M16 is also the most reliable AR without having perks, in special hollow rounds, due to having a very good accuracy and lowest recoil + exactly the right amount of base dmg necessary to be effective (33).

Freezethrower completes your disable set and allows the FP/SC takedowns combined with the M16, you get stun, knockdown, stumble and freeze, thats a lot of support you can give and a lot of stuff you can do. Plus its decent at killing trash if necessary.

Katana together with the melee skill, gives you the right amount of damage to be effective against all trash except for Husks (this saves lots of ammo), 50% dmg parry with 4 strenght ( can even parry FPs and SCs), 25% movespeed bonus gives you the right amount of speed to outrun most threats ( only zeds with "lucky rolls" on their speed ll be able to be dangerous to you ), also makes your life easier dodging attacks.

Alternatively you can replace the M16 for a crossbow for easier takedowns on FPs and SCs, also having "infinite free ammo". Also you can replace the freezethrower for the healing grenade AR, trading your solo takedowns and disables for team healing. Also you can upgrade the Freezethrower to tier 5 instead of the M16, this allows it to do incredibly easy takedowns on FPs and SCs using only 60-70 ammo out of your 500, but this is just overkill in my opinion and you can save some ammo if put some effort.

The killerwatt is pretty lackluster unfortunately, at least at HoE 6 difficulty.

[Ziggylata]

Originally posted by Ryukan:

<snip>

Thanks for this, a lot of useful information regarding the worst case scenario (HoE 6p) that applies to all lower difficulties as I find Suicidal to be the most fun overall, not that I dont like HoE but it can be a handful for sure.

[B Dawg]

Don't bother switching to Survivalist until you have at least 4000 dosh to afford a loadout where he wouldn't feel gimped in comparison to other perks (Killerwatt + Railgun which together are 3500 and at least 500 for ammo/armor I guess).

Killerwatt because it's one of his only on perks so other perks can't use it better than he can, has large mags, good damage and applies the EMP effect on zeds so you can't go wrong with it.
Railgun, because you can do something with it that Sharpshooter can't (fast zed time reloads), and you get to have a damage boost without having to stand still or crouch.

Skill setup is RLRLL. Having Molotovs sucks because of course anything Fire based sucks outside of Firebug but it's necessary to be able to carry both weapons, otherwise you'd have to carry an SMG to be able to still hold the Railgun because you have the least downsides using SWAT weapons compared to other perks (only 10% less damage boost and half the mag size), or swap out the Railgun for I don't know what, losing a lot of big zed killing power in the process.

That being said, with those 2 weapons you have 3 free weight slots. You can use them to either:
- Upgrade the Railgun for more big zed killing power and buy a Medic Pistol (expensive option);
- Buy a Medic SMG (cheap option for team support).

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

Overall good but still needs reworks but not as much.

Good:

-Can use all weapons so not bound to just 1 set.

-Neutral so no X is op X is up. All weapons good if you learn how to use em on what.

-Stunning buffs and tanky armor default

-large carrying weight

Bad:

-The perk skills. Melee expert, both reload perk skills (lvl 5), and the demo weapons extra explosove radius. They're not neutral enough or rather only favor certain weapons. I'd combine both reload perks into 1 universal reload, make the 2nd larger mags. Melee expert swap with skimmerish. And for demo weapons probably just damage boost on all non-bullet weapons (or at least more debuff effects).

-random starting weapons and cannot choose your own grenade (simple if we can choose what weapons and grenades to start with).


Highlights:

-Survivalist is overall better if you're in a LMS situation and run out of ammo. Any weapon you pick up can be useful than say if you were a zerker and picked up a med rifle.

-Survivalist is a true middle zed perk like support sorta. Weapons are standardized to kill big zeds, trash zeds are overkilled, and supportive role on big zeds and bosses.

-Can use every weapon mix and match so you can get crazy but effective loadouts.

-Survivalist plays a more supportive role. You get buffs to stunning and 2 survivalist weapons that can incap via freeze or electrical stunning lile an emp nade. In a way you're like a mix of a medic with the Z.E.D. gun in KF1. You could heal, kill lower tier zeds, support big guys and do decent damage.


Best loadouts (more of a what to choose what not to choose sorta thing but tbh everything works with survivalist):
-any melee with melee expert currently benefits survivalist alot. Spawning with a crovel for the randomized weapon can pretty much have you set till wave 3 or when scrakes start spawning
-retrievable ammo (crossbow and eviscerator) made easier amd cuts down cost on survivalist.
-stun weapons (crossbow, pulverizer, etc.) Are a must if you wanna play a true supportive role
-Flamethrowers don't necessarily work with survivalist as well but all other MW damage type and firebug weapons (ballistic or ranged damage) can
-Swat weapons work extremely well with survivalist compred to swat (then again any really).
-commando is a 50/50 depending on what you choose.
-med weapons are useful if you wanna clear zeds while playing a supportive role (especially the 301 med shotty and 501 med nade AR).
-slow reloading weapons get a buff on it as well as fast reloading weapons (rpg, hemo, singular reload shell shotguns like the m4, and the railgun).
-avoid most GS and sharp weapons as headshot bonuses don't apply. (Exception are the sharp crossbow, and the 2 high damage rifles the railgun and m99). GS could work if you only wanna use a singular pistol to help clear trash zeds exclusively.
-demo weapons can work butnrecommend avoiding (cept the rpg) if possible as you take self damage (not good resistances as demo) if you shoot to close. You'll either get dowm a good chunk of health or lose a good chunk of armor

Perfered loadout setup w/o weapons harness (extra 5 weight)
-big damage weapon
-trash clearing weapon or melee

You'll have medic nades so theres your med pistol since weight is an issue

W/ weapon harness you can be a little more lineant:
-big damage basically T5 weapon
-melee or stun weapon
-medic weapon

Or

-big damage weapon
-stun weapon
-medic weapon (if you choose another weapon pistol can be fitted in there)
-optional other weapon (melee or trash killing weapon).

No medic nades so a med pistol will have to suffice if you can't make room for a higher tier med weapon.

Weapons to consider in your loadouts:
-DBS=staple survivalost weapon for good damage and fast reload as well as other utilities
-m4=good damage, accuracy, low pellet spread, and overallll overcomes the reload thing with 2X reload buffs (reload perk skill and zed time passive reload skill).
-RPG=pretty much has counters on everything even bosses.
-railgun=an automated turrent on you with the already insane reload speed + your own reload buffs in addition to being a T4 big rifle.
-trenchgun=straight upgrade from the SG500. Useful especially upgraded
-any swat weapon=more damage amd fast firing speed make up for the lack of mag sizes. They also cost less because you waste less ammo killing a zed (as opposed to spamming till it dies).
-m16 and 501=because the reload bonuses you have.
-crossbow=for stunning and saving on ammo
-eviscerator=clear large hoardes and also retreivable ammo
-helios rifle=good for penetration and damage but costs a little more. Reload buff is only 1/2 as effective but still noticeable (in zed time).
-MWG=ultimate kiting weapon with the alt-fire blast
-katana=good for dispatching zeds and blocking/parrying attacks
-HZ-12=one of the few shotties better on survivalist than support. Main reason being the 1 second pump each 2 shots fired and faster reload speed make it a cheaper and less weight AA-12
-freezethrower= best utilized on mediums (alt-fire snowballs to decap them) and big zeds (to freeze them in place). Not much uses on bosses sadly.
-killerwatt=almost exclusively BIG zed hoardes (charged blast) or big zeds (charged blast or singular shots) as a supportive weapon to keep them de-enraged.
-crovel=same as katana but not as fast. Still good for blocking/parrying
-hemogoblin=good for supportive roles and healing. Reload speed buff helps alot (in zed time).

Perk skills to use:
-lvl 5 reload=matter of weapon choices you use.
-lvl 10=if you trust your team to hold medic training. If not melee expert to help kite and outrun zeds. Best start with melee expert then decide if you switch after wave 1
-lvl 15=for the loadout setup (2 weapons or 3 ir 4 w/med pistol)
-lvl 20=unless you use demo weapons 100% choose zedsplosiom (even then it's like an extra smaller shockwave ontop of an explosion on demo weapons).
-lvl 25=madman only if you got swat or large mag weapons (AA-12, p90, stoner, etc.). Lockdown pairs extremely well with zedsplosion and can boost any other incap weapons.

Overall i'd say your role as a survivalist is not to be only one role but multiple. The more you have the more you utilize your perk and perk skills. For example clearing trash zeds and healing. Or helping on big zeds by stunning/incapping and kiting an enraged zed so your team can reposition.

[doodwheel]

You want different specialized perks working together as a whole for maximum efficiency, "Jack of all trades" just doesn't do well in this situation IMO.

[ToasT]

I don't love the Survivalist for general play; "Jack-of-all-trades" is good, but the "master of none" is very bad in a game that favours strong team composition.

I'd argue that a good pro there for playing in co-op is that if you have a team you aren't confident is reliable, you can double up using medic weapons competently without doubling down as a field medic but also have a good chance to hold your own if you are LMS (same idea goes with other similar options as a role within the team.)
The other big pro towards the perk (as others have pointed out) is the ability through large carry capacity and use of cross-perk weapons to have something optimal for trash and something optimal for large zeds. Other perks get this to some extent, but not in as extremely min/maxed sort of sense. Being able to competently use an SMG or shotgun and a high-damage Gunslinger/SS weapon is a potent combination if used properly.
It was also pointed out above that there is huge versatility in making a broad use incap build, though I haven't personally played around with this.

Where Survivalist absolutely SHINES, in my opinion, is boss wave versatility.
For normal play, he loses out a bit compared to the other perks because they all focus well on what they do. If everyone covers their job and sticks to what it is that their perk does well, things go much more smoothly without a Survivalist running around trying to do four jobs.
The game format changes somewhat on the boss wave, since it's a die roll as to which boss you will get, and therefore (somewhat) which weapons/perk are ideal. They all have somewhat different resistances and weaknesses, and aside from kiting strategies being effective, are all somewhat different in how they play.

Against all bosses, these are things I would say are universally common:
Having move speed increase is a huge advantage.
More firepower is better both in terms of quantity and potency.
Damage resistance is more valuable than in pre-boss waves. (Let's be honest, the gunslinger's bullet damage resistance is worthless until you fight Hans or the Pat) This includes passive and parry.
High damage per shot weapons let you better pick between the best time to do damage or avoid taking it, as well as spending less time holding the trigger or reloading.

Survivalist is the only one that really checks all of these boxes (Zerk being a close second, and arguments could be made for Medic and Gunslinger, I think.)
You get universal damage resistance, fast move, plenty of reason to carry a melee weapon to give you parry IN ADDITION to the damage resistance, 20 kg of carry weight, and Zed time reload.
The vast majority of the time, if I am facing the boss wave next, I'll swap to Survivalist and consider my dosh. If I have enough, I'll buy an Eviscerator, upgrade it, and then buy either an RPG (upgrade as well,) Railgun, or other similar option. The skill choices for that should be obvious, I think.
You should be able to easily kite any boss using just the Eviscerator, which gives you the move speed, parry, and good ranged damage. The RPG gives you good coverage to beat the King FP (excessively) easily; simply RPG to the face, kite, parry, repeat.
Something approximately similar applies to all bosses in some form or another. What you choose with the Eviscerator will obviously dictate what it's stronger against. You should still have carry capacity for an optional medic pistol, too.
Unlike the main game waves, gambling on the side of versatility means you aren't main damage, and this is actually a credit to the team. If everyone else is a standard perk, they should be able to kill the boss easily without your intervention if things go well. If things go south, having a perk built around a very strong kiting strategy makes you the guaranteed win ace-in-the-hole LMS. As long as you play the patient game, pick your shots, and don't try to do it like a support with an AA12 and a heavy trigger finger. :P

[Phord]

Surv still sucks.

On toast.

Dress it up however u like.. it still... sucks.

Also.. no bueno.

[Littlefoot]

The few times i actually play the perk (which is only in solo or if i want to screw around), this is the loadout i go for normally:

M16 (suprisingly efficient on Survivalist since it’s crossperk nature lets it reload fast regardless of level 5 skill)
P90
Desert Eagle
Medic Pistol
Katana
Occasionally Freezethrower

Perk choices:

L
L
R
L
L

Recently though with the Killerwatt having been added, i try to fit that into my loadout nowadays since it’s one of Surv’s few on-perk weapons.

Still, even with the recent buffs, Survivalist is doomed as the least efficient perk in KF2 unless he gets a complete rework.

[B Dawg]

Originally posted by (TF2SP) Alpha Windows 2HU:

-HZ-12=one of the few shotties better on survivalist than support

There's no such thing as a weapon being better on Survivalist than on it's actual perk, Big wall of bad advice too.

Originally posted by ToasT:

The other big pro towards the perk (as others have pointed out) is the ability through large carry capacity and use of cross-perk weapons to have something optimal for trash and something optimal for large zeds

The game format changes somewhat on the boss wave, since it's a die roll as to which boss you will get, and therefore (somewhat) which weapons/perk are ideal.

It's not exactly optimal if you barely have any perk bonuses to boost your weapons and other perks have loadouts to take care of both trash and big zeds without having to offperk anything.

Regarding bosses, just open console and type in 'getall kfgamereplicationinfo bossindex' at any point during the match to find out who the boss will be.
0 - Hans, 1 - Patty, 2 - Pound, 3 - Poop

[Valore]

Its pretty okay, the only change I'd make is to give the Medic Training perk a 10% movement speed boost as well. Speed is kinda important in the game, and it make sense that for someone who wants to survive, they'd need to be fast. If it had that it would probably be my second favourite perk.

[Nine♥Four♥Ten]

The final stage of wanting to play a generalist is to realize that railgun medic is the true survivalist.

[󠀡]

Originally posted by Nine♥Four♥Ten:

The final stage of wanting to play a generalist is to realize that railgun medic is the true survivalist.

Disgusting.