now i know why demolitionist is despised

[Radzzi (vacation)]

i mean, you can literally counter every single ZED with each weapon and skill the demolitionist have

for example you can wipe out lots of small ZEDs by using grenade pistol in the right timing, like you can kill 5 small ZED's with a single pistol shot if they attack you together or throw a dynamite to them

demo has the skill to blow up the ZEDs after they destroyed the door you sealed of with welder

also demo is a hard counter perk against scrakes and fleshpounds, you shot 1-2 non explosive rocket on head and scrake is dead, you are able to stun fleshpound with dynamite and explosives deals 50% more damage toward fleshpounds

even siren and rioter who are supposed to be counter ZEDs are jokes when you play demo long enough, you can literally "snipe" a siren with anything as long as she doesn't scream or you can use the skill to penetrate siren's scream, rioter has a great amount of armor, but with a pistol you can easily take him down by emptying an entire magazine on his leg (weakspot), or one headshot with seeker six will do the job as well

and at last demo can drain 15% hp from a boss with a direct rpg shot (unless the boss activates his armor or the boss like abomination starts with a good amount of armor), which makes demo a very good boss slayer

this is my experience how broken demo is

[Leon]

sure each weapon can deal with certain zeds on their own way, but since you can't have the perfect loadout to counter everything, it will still have a weakness towards a zed or two.

[MIND ЯEWIND 2]

can you hold a line in 6pHoE? No you cant

[xtro]

Precision perks like SS/GS are on the chopping block. So demo/fb are here to counter the chaotic, mindless mess this game has become.

[Jack]

Wait till you see 25lvl Demo in pub spamming a Nuke.
I swear lots of stuff in this game was designed for consoles in mind and trade-off was balance and teamwork

[doodwheel]

Originally posted by Jack:

Wait till you see 25lvl Demo in pub spamming a Nuke.
I swear lots of stuff in this game was designed for consoles in mind and trade-off was balance and teamwork

this, absolute pandemonium. not to forget the constant camera shake-to-death

[Jack]

Originally posted by McGoober:

Originally posted by Jack:

Wait till you see 25lvl Demo in pub spamming a Nuke.
I swear lots of stuff in this game was designed for consoles in mind and trade-off was balance and teamwork

this, absolute pandemonium. not to forget the constant camera shake-to-death

I love you, this alone made me burst out laughing imagining all of this at the same time

[DrunkBunny94]

Demo us disliked by some because he negatively interacts with other perks;

Screenshake is a pain for anyone trying to aim, stumbling zeds around is also not helping when another class can just insta kill them, blinding effects in zed time makes killing zeds harder than it should be.
Because if the AoE people often rage more than they mean to which is dangerous for the rest of the team - seriously I've seen it happen so many times where a demo sees an FO and 3 scrakes and fires his RPG and gets himself and lancer killed.
killing FPs with body damage would be ok with if they killed quickly - however most people only use the RPG fir FPs in which case killing FPs takes some 4+ seconds which is slower than almost every other perk.
Which ties neatly into the next point which is body damage doesn't help kill larges faster if you have precision perks on your team - 2 gunslingers can focus a FPs head and kill him twice as fast - a demo and a GS and the GS will decap the FP by himself as the body damage doesn't aid him, same goes for support, sharp, commando swat even zerk who all kill zeds quickly with headshots - demo can't help :/

He's a good laner with FB and a zerk wall but other than that he treads in other people's toes.

[Psycho Dad]

Gunslinger, Commando, Sharpshooter and Support can kill everything as well. Much cleaner and without messing with other peoples aim.

Whats a Demo doing when a FP is backed up by two Scrakes and some trash? Cant get close to RPG dud the SC. If thrash isnt clumped together, it takes long to kill. If you RPG the FP or headshot one SC, you'll rage two Scrakes or a FP+SC.
Precission perks can easily target the biggest threat and kill without having to face two raged giants.

Demo isnt bad as a backup damage dealer or vs groups of FPs/QPs. But its not the faultless almighty killer some people think it is.

[HiTmAn]

u still must have very good averness with demo he was super squishy on hoe 1 stalker in wrong time if u are not cearful they kill u xd ..for trash firebug is king

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

You can actually counter a rioter, scrake, and edar by dud shooting an unexploded grenade to their head or chest core (no matter what ajyone says im convinced 100% theres a special type of damage from this and exploding it doesn't do nearly as much).

And also i agree 100%. Demo and firebug are too powerful on higjer difficulties. It's probably less their fault and more the nature of the perk (AoE damage plus lingering damage on firebug flames).

When the zed spawn system changed to have enemies spawm closer, faster, and in greater numbers you can basically shoot a grenade or molotov into a crowd, instantly kill the trash zeds, kill or damage close to death the mediums, and start damaging significantly the bigger zeds to the point that the damage is sufficient enough to trigger enraged mode.

The RPG tbh is probably the biggest claim validating op's statement. You got a T5 damage weapon for a T4 price. It counters every zed even has counters on scrakes and bosses. To the point that if you off-perked it as a medic, any other perk, or crossperked as survivalist; you'd have some better versatility than a any other T4 (excluding the eviscerator but you lose fleshpound killing capabilities). I've seen LMS medics, GS, and even swats who pick up a fallen teammate's rpg and clutch the match.

I always hear people complain about dying in such b.s. ways, but never hear much that they play as a firebug, demo, zerker, or medic (it's usually the pick perks like GS, sharp, swat, and commando when they die in such b.s. ways).

[22050hz amen break sample]

i thought it was cuz demo is severely less capable of doing the same job mando and sharp do together as specialists but whatever i guess

[DrunkBunny94]

Originally posted by (TF2SP) Hotwheels:

You can actually counter a rioter, scrake, and edar by dud shooting an unexploded grenade to their head or chest core (no matter what ajyone says im convinced 100% theres a special type of damage from this and exploding it doesn't do nearly as much).

Its called shell damage type and its not only a seperate value its also a unique damage type which gets affected by resistances differently, it doesnt matter if the projectile explodes or not if you hit the target this damage gets applied.

Originally posted by (TF2SP) Hotwheels:

And also i agree 100%. Demo and firebug are too powerful on higjer difficulties. It's probably less their fault and more the nature of the perk (AoE damage plus lingering damage on firebug flames).

When the zed spawn system changed to have enemies spawm closer, faster, and in greater numbers you can basically shoot a grenade or molotov into a crowd, instantly kill the trash zeds, kill or damage close to death the mediums, and start damaging significantly the bigger zeds to the point that the damage is sufficient enough to trigger enraged mode.

They are powerful - because they are forgiving to play. having more room for error and an overall lower skill cap means that people that would normally struggle to play HoE with a perk like commando or gunslinger are able to play better by picking a perk thats less mechanically intensive.

Think of a moba or hero shooter, there are some champions that are easier to play than others, then there are characters that are better - but not everyone is able to get value from them so you end up with fluctuating win rates for champions based on the elo rating of the player. I want to say bastion and torb are pretty easy to pick up and play - but they are no where on high rated games because players both know how to counter them and are able to do so.

Originally posted by (TF2SP) Hotwheels:

I always hear people complain about dying in such b.s. ways, but never hear much that they play as a firebug, demo, zerker, or medic (it's usually the pick perks like GS, sharp, swat, and commando when they die in such b.s. ways).

If i am a gunslinger and i put 7 magnum rounds into a FP's head i need 1 more shot to kill that FP and then a demo RPG's him blinding me and shaking my screen and i miss the last 3 shots i need to kill him - then he hasnt helped speed up the takedown as that is body damage which is irrelevent to the speed at which I am going to decap the FP with headshot damage, in fact all he has done is put me in danger as i now need to reload/swap weapons and finish the job.

Or if im commando and i and trying to extend zed time and a demo drops a HX on my feet which then that shakes my screen and blinds me - its not exactly helpful.

Theres also zerk eating M99 shots and stumbling/knocking zeds over which again is frustrating for other players.

Now because those perks (demo firebug and zerk) are easy to play as they are more forgiving - the players that gravitate to those perks arent the most skilled or the brightest players - which makes scenarios like the one above far more likely to happen.
Then ofc when you explain this to people ingame they cant understand what they are doing wrong (or worse they do understand and are greifing).

This is entirely a design fault on TWI's part by making perk interactions like this as if they simply made headshots get a large damage multiplier and give all zeds 1 hp pool then in the scenario above the demo would help.
TWI are slowly trying to fix this fault like they did with spontaneous zedsplosion but demo has always been as frustrating as FB so hopefully they can look making him less of a pain to paly with next.

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

Originally posted by Hououin Kyouma:

i thought it was cuz demo is severely less capable of doing the same job mando and sharp do together as specialists but whatever i guess

actually it mixes them both together b/c of high damage and killing mulitple zeds (just replace commando with firebug).

i still think the RPG needs a rework like the railgun/m99 they did for it basically making the m99 superior for picking big zeds and railgun for sustained dps.
Maybe give rpg more base ammo and stumble while giving another T5 RL the counters.

[Big Ma Ma]

Demo is fine when holding the line with firebug or berserker. It's annoying when a demo keeps trying to share lanes with other precision perks like commando, sharpshooter, etc. I always avoid sharing lanes with demo but they just keep sticking around you.

[SawbladeSnake]

by who exactly? who despises demo? you? a small group of random people?