Hate having Firebug in the team more than Survivalist

[SkyL3R]

These fпcking Firebugs mess everything up.
Missing shots and therefore wasting ammo because of them.
And they are usually so braindead that they won't even understand to not set SCs and FPs on fire when they are calm.
Firebugs turn everything to absolute chaos, everybody's running around, but not dying (because Firebugs do no damage) and other teammates can't see ♥♥♥♥ in this mess.

[spearten.com]

tha grumbie eredeti hozzászólása:

You know what annoys me more than firebugs? People who don't know how to stick to their lanes and watch each others' backs. A firebug can work very well on a team that actually has a plan of action. Players that turn around at the mere sound of one or two shots popping off just so they can get some kills are more of a detriment to the team than a firebug spraying all over the place.

Now I don't play too much as firebug, but I've watched some good ones. They were able to hold their own and keep one flank secure so the rest of the team didn't have to worry about being blindsided. Of course, that doesn't count when scrakes and fleshpounds show up, but that's not what they're meant to take on anyway.

Dude I thought I was the only one. When people switch sides because they aren't having enemies at that 1 second interval, they screw the team over because as soon as they leave, the zeds start pouring in.

[Fanthomas]

As a firebug main, this post triggers me

[Leenker]

My server running CD mod and if anyone join and pick Firebug, i always notice as him 80% time to see how he play....

Result : 80% Firebug player WHO join my server, messing up everything/their flame cover Commando's eyes and yeah, commonly raging all scrake ( their skin are already black, but they make it more dark now... LOL )

[Turtle God]

Turtle God eredeti hozzászólása:

how do SCs and FPs look like tho

[Gwizzz]

tha grumbie eredeti hozzászólása:

You know what annoys me more than firebugs? People who don't know how to stick to their lanes and watch each others' backs. A firebug can work very well on a team that actually has a plan of action. Players that turn around at the mere sound of one or two shots popping off just so they can get some kills are more of a detriment to the team than a firebug spraying all over the place.

Now I don't play too much as firebug, but I've watched some good ones. They were able to hold their own and keep one flank secure so the rest of the team didn't have to worry about being blindsided. Of course, that doesn't count when scrakes and fleshpounds show up, but that's not what they're meant to take on anyway.

As a medic and commando player i disagree with you. Too often zeds pour in from one direction and overwhelm one "lane". That creates more chaos as zeds get in the middle attacking people from the rear.

A good group is fluid and will work together to take out zeds ASAP.

And to the OP, a FB is an awesome perk. I run with a FB and Zerker and we have a great time. Other perks join or drop during map swap but we usually stick together.

[tha grumbie]

Gwizzz eredeti hozzászólása:

tha grumbie eredeti hozzászólása:

You know what annoys me more than firebugs? People who don't know how to stick to their lanes and watch each others' backs. A firebug can work very well on a team that actually has a plan of action. Players that turn around at the mere sound of one or two shots popping off just so they can get some kills are more of a detriment to the team than a firebug spraying all over the place.

Now I don't play too much as firebug, but I've watched some good ones. They were able to hold their own and keep one flank secure so the rest of the team didn't have to worry about being blindsided. Of course, that doesn't count when scrakes and fleshpounds show up, but that's not what they're meant to take on anyway.

As a medic and commando player i disagree with you. Too often zeds pour in from one direction and overwhelm one "lane". That creates more chaos as zeds get in the middle attacking people from the rear.

A good group is fluid and will work together to take out zeds ASAP.

And to the OP, a FB is an awesome perk. I run with a FB and Zerker and we have a great time. Other perks join or drop during map swap but we usually stick together.

That's not what I'm talking about though. Here's a scenario that resembles that. A few clots come around a corner, I start killing them. Suddenly I have 2 guys next to me also shooting at them. Then, from where they came from a group of crawlers come behind all 3 of us.

[Gwizzz]

tha grumbie eredeti hozzászólása:

Gwizzz eredeti hozzászólása:

As a medic and commando player i disagree with you. Too often zeds pour in from one direction and overwhelm one "lane". That creates more chaos as zeds get in the middle attacking people from the rear.

A good group is fluid and will work together to take out zeds ASAP.

And to the OP, a FB is an awesome perk. I run with a FB and Zerker and we have a great time. Other perks join or drop during map swap but we usually stick together.

That's not what I'm talking about though. Here's a scenario that resembles that. A few clots come around a corner, I start killing them. Suddenly I have 2 guys next to me also shooting at them. Then, from where they came from a group of crawlers come behind all 3 of us.

I agree that is a problem, but sounds like bad situational awareness.

Usually in our group we all cover a lane (direction). When something comes from direction A, it is not unusual for everyone to turn and put up a wall of lead.

If more come from direction B,C,D, the primary and maybe 1 or 2 others disengage from Direction A to counter the new threat. When the crew have cleaned direction A, they jump in to help the others clean up what's left over.

That's what i mean as being fluid. Usually we don't have any deaths even when there are loads of zeds, although it does get hectic at times.

When there is a lull in the waves, everyone goes back to watching their original direction.

You are welcome to join us, we play nightly.

[FeelZeSchadenfreude]

Gwizzz eredeti hozzászólása:

As a medic and commando player i disagree with you. Too often zeds pour in from one direction and overwhelm one "lane". That creates more chaos as zeds get in the middle attacking people from the rear.

A good group is fluid and will work together to take out zeds ASAP.

And to the OP, a FB is an awesome perk. I run with a FB and Zerker and we have a great time. Other perks join or drop during map swap but we usually stick together.

Okay, I need to point this out.

I've browsed your achievements. You're playing on normal. Firebug is perfectly fine on normal. *Everything* is perfectly fine on normal.

However firebug does not scale well with difficulty. It specializes in killing mass numbers of weak enemies in close quarters. Which is perfect for normal because everything is pathetically weak, even the large zeds. As you climb the difficulty ladder firebug becomes less and less effective because the enemies get stronger, and there comes a point where body damage with DOT is no longer a reasonable method of playing the game.

Around Suicidal is where the firebug's effectiveness ceiling simply becomes too low. He turns from a questionable asset to a liability at that point (with the big exception of when you are kiting or running). The amount of trash control you provide doesn't matter anymore compared to the fact that you make it harder for everybody else to get headshots. Suicidal is the first difficulty where headshots start to matter, and being a firebug makes it harder for the rest of the team because he blinds people with particle effects and panics zeds.

On Hell on Earth, with the exception of some tight quarters maps, firebug is unacceptable in serious games. Survivalist might be useless, but he isn't annoying. Firebug is both useless and annoying. He can clear trash, sure. But commando can do the same thing without blinding the players behind him.

[Gwizzz]

FeelZeSchadenfreude eredeti hozzászólása:

Gwizzz eredeti hozzászólása:

As a medic and commando player i disagree with you. Too often zeds pour in from one direction and overwhelm one "lane". That creates more chaos as zeds get in the middle attacking people from the rear.

A good group is fluid and will work together to take out zeds ASAP.

And to the OP, a FB is an awesome perk. I run with a FB and Zerker and we have a great time. Other perks join or drop during map swap but we usually stick together.

Okay, I need to point this out.

I've browsed your achievements. You're playing on normal. Firebug is perfectly fine on normal. *Everything* is perfectly fine on normal.

However firebug does not scale well with difficulty. It specializes in killing mass numbers of weak enemies in close quarters. Which is perfect for normal because everything is pathetically weak, even the large zeds. As you climb the difficulty ladder firebug becomes less and less effective because the enemies get stronger, and there comes a point where body damage with DOT is no longer a reasonable method of playing the game.

Around Suicidal is where the firebug's effectiveness ceiling simply becomes too low. He turns from a questionable asset to a liability at that point (with the big exception of when you are kiting or running). The amount of trash control you provide doesn't matter anymore compared to the fact that you make it harder for everybody else to get headshots. Suicidal is the first difficulty where headshots start to matter, and being a firebug makes it harder for the rest of the team because he blinds people with particle effects and panics zeds.

On Hell on Earth, with the exception of some tight quarters maps, firebug is unacceptable in serious games. Survivalist might be useless, but he isn't annoying. Firebug is both useless and annoying. He can clear trash, sure. But commando can do the same thing without blinding the players behind him.

You are correct, I am leveling several perks on normal, and point well taken. However the discussion was pretty general and not broken down by difficulty level. If FB are really that weak on HOE hopefully a lot of veterans have posted feedback to get that looked into.

[Netsa]

I'm playing up to Suicidal and I think Firebug is mostly fine. His damage is high enough to kill any non-tank zed within a reasonable amount of time and the AoE is helpful on chokepoints. I've never really had a problem killing units through the fire effects, since any enemy I can't see through the flames is probably going to die from the fire. Scrakes and fleshpounds are significantly taller than the flames, sirens and bloats announce themselves and take massive damage from Ground Fire anyway, most other enemies die or panic as soon as they touch the fire, so the only thing I would possibly have to worry about is Gorefiends if they blend in too much. I can usually handle a few Gorefiends.

Granted, I usually play Commando (health bar view). Been leveling Sharpie lately, and Demo has annoyed me more than Firebug on that class with the screen rumble.

The problem only really comes if the Firebug uses Shrapnel, or thinks Heat Wave means he can solo tanks. If he's making sure not to rile up the scrakes, he's really not that big of a deal.

[Apathy]

As a Mando I always laugh when dumb pubbies say this about my Bug bros. Bugs and Mandos have the same job and role so we pair well together. Meanwhile half of the people that complain about Bugs are generally useless to their team and are the type of ♥♥♥♥♥ to go into a game massively under leveled.

Generally speaking when Bugs and Mandos have to take on SCs and FPs it's because some moron in the squad isn't doing their job and we have to fill gaps. The only one of those two I'll willingly engage is a SC because as a Mando I can take him down easier than an FP who just shrugs off my rifles.

[FeelZeSchadenfreude]

Netsa eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm playing up to Suicidal and I think Firebug is mostly fine. His damage is high enough to kill any non-tank zed within a reasonable amount of time and the AoE is helpful on chokepoints.

That's his biggest issue. He is the only perk that sucks this much against large zeds. Even the other specialized trash perks can deal with scrakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-AQLmZvVLQ

Video above summarizes a small portion of why firebug is often bad in higher difficulties.

This is if you completely ignore the fire blinding and panic that he causes.

[abugaj]

When I see a firebug on the team I don't even bother messing with the big zeds because I know that they will be raged and kill everyone. If I stay away I may have a chance to survive the wave. Let the firebugs die from their own stupidity imo.

[Booraz]

Turtle God eredeti hozzászólása:

Turtle God eredeti hozzászólása:

how do SCs and FPs look like tho

[Netsa]

FeelZeSchadenfreude eredeti hozzászólása:

That's his biggest issue. He is the only perk that sucks this much against large zeds.

In my opinion, this should be the case with every AoE class. But TWI has Demo going around instakilling every enemy in the game, so obviously that's not what they were going for.

I agree that he should get a buff somewhere, or a rework to make him less reliant on Ground Fire for pretty much all of his damage. There's a lot of classes in this game I think are just badly thought out (hint: all of them). Doesn't necessarily mean he's a liability, though.