High level mage, best hero killer?

[CaptainChaos]

No high level enemy hero has defeated a high level mage of mine (25th+). I think it's the best hero killer of them all. What do you all think?

[skywestnm]

I agree, However I just got a result I'd never seen. After a 1.5 hour real time battle, my 21st level mage drew 12 trolls. They both walked away and the result was called a draw.

[CaptainChaos]

SERIOUSLY?! There is a time or turn limit to battles? How did you stand off 12 trolls?! what spells/army did you have?

[watcherzero]

Auto resolve glitches if theres only a one square passage that someones standing in and you end up with a draw, you see it a lot on sieges. Looks like a pathfinding bug.

[cyancurve]

Originally posted by CaptainChaos:

SERIOUSLY?! There is a time or turn limit to battles? How did you stand off 12 trolls?! what spells/army did you have?

1) mass dease + mass curse + mass slow to drain their stamina
2) get a vampire or two to just run them and avoid to be surrounded
3)chop them into pieces when they are out of stamina

[Mörkö]

Originally posted by cyancurve:

Originally posted by CaptainChaos:

SERIOUSLY?! There is a time or turn limit to battles? How did you stand off 12 trolls?! what spells/army did you have?

1) mass dease + mass curse + mass slow to drain their stamina
2) get a vampire or two to just run them and avoid to be surrounded
3)chop them into pieces when they are out of stamina

Or just simply one or two aoe fear spell (forgot the spells name) then all of them tries to simply run away. Morale ftw.

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by CaptainChaos:

No high level enemy hero has defeated a high level mage of mine (25th+). I think it's the best hero killer of them all. What do you all think?

A level 15+ Archer, with a higher initiative can easily double shot a mage, before the mage can get a spell off. The AI just isn't clever enough to do it. :-P

[skywestnm]

The reason I took so long with 12 trolls was I using a morale breaking strategy. Only problem is that trolls do rally. I had taken two stone golems and 5 thugs in to kick ass on the trolls. The morale breaker was the 4th level mass morale spell (I forget the name). What happened was there was a continual stream of about 4 trolls coming at me as they rallied. Kill a few and some new ones rally. They wore me down. It was fun trying to kill the ones that would re-break the ralliers, which happened. At the end he had two trolls left and was resting. I had half a golem, my hero and a used up sorceror. We were both resting and the game called it a draw. I figure its kinda like chess. No moves after a certain amount of time makes it a draw. I thought thatt pretty classy that they worked that into the combat results but it was purely unexpected.

[CaptainChaos]

Alastair, that's a fair scenario, but doesn't the archer have to be in range? if the archer goes first, he places first, so the mage can place himself out of range. if the archer is second, the mage can blind him (or web him if the mage is good and refuses to use chaos spells). The mage has no range on his spells.

Sky: wow, that is an amazing story. I like it.

[Gabriel]

Between skills and the and the right bow, any centre front placement would leave the mage in range, no matter where he was placed. So far I have only seen a level 25+ warrior survive the double shot, and that was only just. The mage, commander, and fellow archers just don't have the defense and hit points to stop the damage.

I tend to play using an Archer and adding a Mage ASAP. Other heroes are added depending on the shard size, and how long I feel like playing that shard for.

For me the Warrior, and especially the Commander, are surplus to requirements but they have their fun sides.

Nothing quite as funny as saving up armour and then watching as your level 1 Warrior, kitted out in Valour armour, with +9 Def breastplate, and two handed sword with 40 Bloodsucker takes out 6 high level minatours single handed. :)

The advantage of the mage is getting the fireball spell, and having massive AoE damage. The advantage of the Archer is the unparralled, and more importantly, the unstoppable, single target damage.

Ever tried taking on a dragon with a mage? Unless you have high levelled level 3 & 4 units, you will lose, and even then, if the AI targets your hero he is toast. A level 15 archer can take a dragon down in two moves, at the sometimes sacrifice of another unit, but it is worth it for the 1500 gold and great loot, sooner than you would get it with any other hero class. The same applies to Guards of the Ancients, those stone golems just don't feel the magic.

[cyancurve]

Originally posted by CaptainChaos:

Alastair, that's a fair scenario, but doesn't the archer have to be in range? if the archer goes first, he places first, so the mage can place himself out of range. if the archer is second, the mage can blind him (or web him if the mage is good and refuses to use chaos spells). The mage has no range on his spells.

Sky: wow, that is an amazing story. I like it.

The gearing in MOTBW is broken. An archer with the healer stuff has the range added to his shooting range so he can cover any hex in the tatical map. Archer is probably the most strong hero/hero killer in this game with a good bow.

[CaptainChaos]

hmm... it's interesting. even with almost 300 hours into the game i haven't come across some of this gear yet. 40 bloodsucker? +9 armor. Wow. Where did you gusy get this this stuff??

I dk, i havne't lost a high level mage yet to the computer. On the other hand, my 20th level mage (or higher) has killed every enemy hero. Double shots from my high level scouts have done about 40-60 points of damage but my mage causes as much damage with two lightening spells. I usually blind the enemy hero and then lightening, followed up by two lightening attacks and done.

Are you guys doing PvP that you have expereinced the above?

And yes, mage vs. dragon, is a no-go b/c of spell immunity. I didn't realize a warrior could take on 6 minotaurs like that. My mage had to blind all 6 minotaurs to get same result and that was dicey b/c you have to kill them before it expires...

[Gabriel]

The best loot drops from the hardest mobs, which is why I use the archer, as it is 'getable' sooner.

I'm not denying the mage is a strong character, which is why I get one out into play as soon as I can. But it's AoE damage capacity comes with the strong downside of not being able to easily take on those mobs that drop the good stuff.

With the warrior, it is about the equipment, the mage is good because he levels nicely with the mobs as you progress, the commander is ridiculously funny when you get them to level 30, fully kitted out, and watch an AI mage fireball your army and do zero damage.

But the archer has that ability to take on higher level mobs much earlier than the others, to take on mobs without needing high level equipment, and in the process getting that equipment.

Once fully equipped with the good stuff, my mage easily surpasses my archer for most battles, but for those battles the mage can't fight, to get me to the place of being able to fight those battles in the first place, to explore a province in quick time, to watch a vampire fall at level 12, and a dragon die at level 15, to take on the guard of the ancients at level 18, to kill almost anyone in one move, you need the archer. :-)

The beauty of this game is that there are so many ways to play, and so many ways to win. If you have found something that works for you and you are having fun then go get them - BUT you must, must at some point level up a commander to level 30, get him fully equipped with the good stuff, get your army units up to level 15 and sit back, click auto-combat and watch armies break on yours like ocean waves on a rock.

[fractguy]

A Wizard have a lot of tools to neutralize an Archer. Web and lightning spam are enough for lower level. And later, double Inferno shot for high ranking toaster mage.

So, it's seems than initiative is definitely the best hero killer :P

[CaptainChaos]

Good discussion here, thanks!

BTW, I was beginning to wonder if Commander was useless. Glad to know any character can kick butt!

[Gabriel]

Commander are really hard to level, it takes a while, but when you get him up to 20+, he really starts to come into his own, expecially if you have managed to keep his units alive and level them with him.

He is by far the most 'fun' at higher levels, because even a swordsman can go up against high level mobs, one on one and stand a chance of winning.

It takes patience, but that is some of the fun of this game. I have played a lot of RPG's over the years, and I never played Genesis, and in Eador I have found a lot that was missing in other RPG's. Even in things like the TES the challenge fades after a while. I'm nearly 250 hours in and I am still challenged.

I got all available buildings 8 shards ago, it looks like I got all available starting buildings 3 shards ago. I am now working on finishing off my resource 10% reductions. 4 down, working on Dionium on a world of rust shard. - Challenging and fun!