Upper Palace - three missing kills MYSTERY SOLVED.

[FixbotWill]

Most of the missing kills have been fixed by the remaster.
The following maps had missing kills in the original Quake II/The Reckoning/Ground Zero that are now fixed:
Cooling Facility, Research Lab, Outer Courts, Lower Palace, Industrial Facility, Water Treatment Plant, Lower Mines (GZ), Waterfront Storage, Waste Processing, Maintenance Hangars, Munitions Plant.

The Badlands still has a missing kill on Easy difficulty.

But Upper Palace is kind of a weird one? On Hard/Nightmare the enemy count is 75. I've repeatedly played through Unit 9 and sometimes the 75 enemies all appear, sometimes I get stuck on 72 and I honestly can't figure out what's happening with it. I've seen other people say something about needing to load the game to find the last three enemies, or something?
Anyone know what's going on there?

**edit: MYSTERY SOLVED. The player needs to press this button.**
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561199059702471/screenshot/2318853836262561096/
there are multiple ways to explore this level (and the whole of Unit 9); you don't need to go in this direction and you don't need to press this specific button to explore the whole level (you can turn off the forcefield by pressing a different button). But three Light Guards will only spawn if you press this one.

[dml!]

I still got all kills there the last time a played a few weeks ago. Though I think I had three missing until I went down the elevator in the "maintenance" side where the security pass is and saw three shotgun guards I forgot about up some short stairs near where a marine is crawling around. I probably rocket jumped up the ladder to the security pass which would make sense. Unless there is some kind of spawning issue with those and I didn't notice.

[scp966]

it's a spawning issue, i've seen this a handful of times myself. it's also worth noting this happens more if you do a bunch of quick saves. not sure if that is a direct correlation or not but it's worth mentioning.

[FixbotWill]

after a couple more attempts and still being stuck on 72/75, I'm honestly stumped on this one. I know it's possible to 100% kills because I compiled the enemy count for the Quake wiki. I've done 75/75 at least once... but I just cannot figure out what I'm not doing these other times. I did think it might be a "they spawn when you collect this particular unnecessary item" issue, but it doesn't look like it.

[FixbotWill]

for what it's worth, by comparing my current attempts to the earlier notes I made when compiling enemy counts for the Wiki, I can confirm that the missing kills are Light Guards. Where they are, though... is a mystery. There should be 14 according to my notes from when I did achieve 75/75. I can only account for 11.

Six of them at the top of the main elevator, one has a Silencer.
Two more in the excavation area where you can get an Enviro-Suit.
Three more in the hallway leading to the iD Software Memorabilia Room.

that's 11... Where are the other three?

[scp966]

^

not sure to be completely honest. it's definitely achievable if you had done it previously. my opinion: keep grinding.

do you actually work on the official wiki? the way you worded it seems like you do. nonetheless, i stand by my original post, only because i've noticed it myself personally.

[dml!]

Originally posted by TombKingsWill:

for what it's worth, by comparing my current attempts to the earlier notes I made when compiling enemy counts for the Wiki, I can confirm that the missing kills are Light Guards. Where they are, though... is a mystery. There should be 14 according to my notes from when I did achieve 75/75. I can only account for 11.

Six of them at the top of the main elevator, one has a Silencer.
Two more in the excavation area where you can get an Enviro-Suit.
Three more in the hallway leading to the iD Software Memorabilia Room.

that's 11... Where are the other three?

Just did a run through of that unit, you should have two more light guards just through the force field to the right of those first six up the main elevator. Don't think I saw a third though, unless I disintegrated one whilst killing other enemies. I did however get the full kill count.

[FixbotWill]

Originally posted by chillhallow:

do you actually work on the official wiki? the way you worded it seems like you do.

Yeah, I contribute a lot to the wiki. Currently nearly done compiling a new category, "Quake II Broken Levels". There's more than people think.
https://quake.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Quake_II_broken_levels

Originally posted by dml!:

Just did a run through of that unit, you should have two more light guards just through the force field to the right of those first six up the main elevator. Don't think I saw a third though, unless I disintegrated one whilst killing other enemies. I did however get the full kill count.

appreciate the comment. Will do some more testing in a bit

[FixbotWill]

Originally posted by dml!:

Just did a run through of that unit, you should have two more light guards just through the force field to the right of those first six up the main elevator. Don't think I saw a third though, unless I disintegrated one whilst killing other enemies. I did however get the full kill count.

You are absolutely right. This time I changed my route (I usually go for the lower entrance to Upper Palace to get the Security Pass first) and went straight for the main entrance, and the right path through the forcefields at the top of the elevator. There they are, the missing three Light Guards.

I always fully explore this area, but I usually do it coming from the other direction, and the three Light Guards just don't appear there. The spawn triggers must have something to do with which direction you head to this area from, or which order you do the exploration. Weird.

I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. Thanks for the comment.

[FixbotWill]

OK, mystery solved. The three Light Guards spawn when you press this button. The problem is, it's a button you don't need to press because there are lots of ways to do Unit 9, different directions you can go. Turning off the forcefield with the other button on the far side will not cause the Light Guards to spawn and you won't get 100% kills, unless you press this button afterward.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561199059702471/screenshot/2318853836262561096/

[FixbotWill]

incidentally, for the purposes of completion, this level actually had two "missing kills" problems. the first one was two missing Iron Maidens who were meant to spawn in the area by the blue force fields after the communication laser is destroyed. That's been fixed in the remaster. The three Light Guards here is the other issue, but they were never actually *missing*; they just depended on pressing a particular button that the player didn't need to press to explore the entire level.

[dml!]

So there were three there, not sure how I didn't see the third, maybe it ran back into the area behind and I blew it up with BFG or something.

Good that you solved the mystery though, and it's an interesting oversight that only one button for the forcefield spawns them. I guess I never experienced that because for as long as I can remember, I always take that right forcefield path to the security room to disable the yellow forcefields, then rocket jump up to the data CD. Though it would be very easy for one to take the left path up to the data CD and then drop down to the security room, after which those enemies wouldn't spawn having opened the forcefield from the other side.

[dml!]

I just tried going up the left side to the data CD and coming back down from there, and it works just like you say. It's pretty funny because as soon as you hit the switch to close the forcefield from the big elevator side, the light guards run straight into the forcefield as they coming looking for you.

Out of interest I tried the original game running via YamagiQ2 and the same thing happens, so I suspect this oversight always existed. Though I somehow managed to brush the forcefield switch again on my way through and got stuck in the forcefield, so I had to noclip out which was funny. Anyway once I pressed the switch on the other side the light guards appeared, though it took them a little longer to arrive with the less aggressive pathing compared to the remaster.

[FixbotWill]

we solved it together - if not for your comments I would not have known where to look.

My general strategy on that level was to use the lower entrance first for the Security Pass, then take the left forcefield to the walkway above the courtyard and bombard the Strogg below with grenades (that courtyard fight is a bit of a mess to face head-on). Then proceed to the Data CD, drop down to use the Security Pass, then head for the secret on the other end of that particular troublesome forcefield.

You say you got stuck in the forcefield in the Yamagi port? In the remaster, that's instant death. Basically the same as getting telefragged.

Incidentally, you wanna have a try at the Badlands on Easy difficulty? Now that Upper Palace mystery is solved, that's the only missing kill left. Stuck on 43/44.

[FixbotWill]

Originally posted by dml!:

and it's an interesting oversight that only one button for the forcefield spawns them.

I wouldn't really understand why those particular three need to be off-map until a certain point anyway.

Same with the Hornet in the Comm Satellite. In the original game it would patrol the lower part of the satellite dish chamber. In the remaster it's off-map until you enter the chamber, then it spawns in the upper level. It can literally teleport into play right in front of you.

[dml!]

Originally posted by TombKingsWill:

You say you got stuck in the forcefield in the Yamagi port? In the remaster, that's instant death. Basically the same as getting telefragged.

Incidentally, you wanna have a try at the Badlands on Easy difficulty? Now that Upper Palace mystery is solved, that's the only missing kill left. Stuck on 43/44.

Interesting, glad I didn't land in the forcefield on the remaster then.

Just tried Badlands on easy, 43/44 for me too visiting all secrets. I even went into the next level, came back and went backwards through the entire level, then noclipped around for ages to see if I could spot any Gekks on ledges, but nothing.