Suggestion for Nightdive for future remasters featuring improvements, like this one

[Cr0m]

not sure anyone from nightdive will read any of this but here goes- a lot of complainy complainersons crying about the berzerker leaps and whatever else, but my hunch is that those people are in the minority. so i hope you (nightdive) don't shy away from doing this kind of thing in the future because of them. they're just posting more because what happens, we get more motivated to post when it's a complaint. people who are satisfied with something tend to post about it less. so i think there's a lot of people silent on the issue who love what you did with these changes. please don't undo or nerf them too much.

anyway, it might still be a good idea in the future to have the main game mode untouched (besides graphic stuff, etc), and then have right in the menu an alternate 'Remix' mode, with any of the gameplay changes/tweaks confined to that.

i think this would be great because the cryguys could have their original untarnished, flawed, clunky experience and would have that one less thing to cry and complain about. i'm sure they'd still find numerous things, but they wouldn't have that, and you could say you gave them the unchanged game.

on the other hand it would also free you up to go FURTHER with the changes, creating an even more fresh experience. q2 i think was a great step in that direction, it really made the game a lot better. but there are still some major flaws that were present in the original design. the main campaign is just way too easy. it gives you health, ammo, armor, power armor and cells, like candy. maybe halfway through i just become an unstoppable juggernaut, even on nightmare. would've been cool to see maybe half or more of that stuff taken away. maybe even remove the power armor completely, which in a 'Remix' mode, nobody could complain about. they still would, but eh..

also the tank really needed some mobility options. i think it would've been so rad to see him just teleport behind you after you run back behind a corner to peekaboo at him, and there he is behind you suddenly. or maybe a jetpack where he can catch up to you better or.... something. he's just so sad and sucky. for me the 64 and expansions were balanced much better than the main campaign, i didn't have an overabundance of resources, so the tweaks you (nightdive) did felt perfect there, usually.

but some of these old games were just really busted. they had a great game in there somewhere wanting to come out, but the development was rushed, or it went off track somewhere, or whatever. and they could be improved in ways that brings the greatness out. you guys did a good job of attempting to do that with q2 but in some cases you'd need to go even further.

Hexen is a perfect example of what i was talking about though. that game, to even just become 'good' and not a flawed terrible horrible nightmare of pain and torment to slog though, would take a LOT of changes/improvements. to become something great you'd have to basically make it a whole new experience. you could keep the basic level design but improve it to make sure nobody ever gets lost. i think it sucks to only have 4 weapons, so i would say either remove the classes and combine all weapons into one (maybe except the melee weapons), or keep the classes but add new weapons to supplement what's there. you could steal some from heretic for example. i also think there are too few enemy types and some new ones should be added for variety (again a few could be snatched from heretic), and the constantly spawning ettins should be disabled. in my opinion the overall experience should be slightly more linear with less backtracking, maybe adding teleporters near switches that take you to where the door was opened...

i'm just giving that as an example- putting those changes in a 'remix' mode would hedge off the crybabies. you could still have the unaltered game, while really having fun with changes to the game in a remix mode. i know this comes down to time and resources which aren't always there, so maybe this just isn't in the scope of what you guys are able to do, but M2 does this kind of thing with some of their re-releases.

that's my 2 cents, anyway.

[FixbotWill]

I'm not sure why you're so upset with that fact that so many people dislike this one particular obviously broken thing, the Berserker leap. It doesn't bother me that a lot of people dislike the Railgun nerf, even though I very much like the nerf myself.

This isn't about not liking change; there have been lots of updates to various enemies as well as to AI generally, and I would say that I'm very happy with 99% of it. Just this one obviously ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ broken thing, the guy who hits you when he lands absolutely nowhere near you. I'd also like to point out that nobody, absolutely nobody has been able to provide a rebuttal to what the criticism of the Berserker leap actually is, especially you, Cr0m.

I'm gonna repeat something here:

There's a pattern with people who defend the Berserker leap; they all deliberately ignore what the actual criticism is. It doesn't make the game unplayably difficult. It makes the game less fun to play. It's like the Turrets in Ground Zero used to be before they got nerfed; they were widely considered to be a negative play experience. If you haven't heard that term before, it's a commonly used term in gaming, it basically means when a particular thing is so obnoxious that it makes an otherwise enjoyable game become frustrating and/or boring. Again, think the old version of Ground Zero turrets.

Berserker leap hits you when it lands absolutely nowhere near you. This isn't an interesting challenge that makes you want to hone your skills. It's just stupid.

NOBODY has been able to give a good answer to this. In fact, ask the Quake II gaming population for a simple yes/no to the question "Should the Berserker leap hit you when it lands absolutely nowhere near you?" I think 99% would say no, in which case it's argument over.

That said, I do agree the Tank and Tank Commander deserve a bit more of a buff than they got with the suppression fire thing. Perhaps off the top of my head they could have a quicker firing animation for their blaster and especially the rocket launcher, maybe give them a power shield, maybe give them homing rockets like the Beta Super Tank got.

[Cr0m]

everyone who has played the game knows that the leap is impossible to dodge.

those of us who don't see it as a problem, don't see it as a problem. you can't dodge the laser guards, you can't dodge hitscan bullets, you just have to have a plan for how to deal with those things and maybe sometimes you have to fall back and regroup.

you duck around a corner if you see a berzerker down a hallway. if you don't do that you're just not on the ball and deserve to eat a leap. try harder.

you stay close to them and the leap ceases to become something you have to worry about anymore.

i've said these things time and time and time again and it's YOU who keeps ignoring it, and you are a very tiresome person who probably kills all the fun in everything.

like in this thread you're not even addressing the topic of my post, while all you do is accuse others of ignoring your one single point that everyone already understands. seek help.

[Salander]

Oh, everybody look! Yet another thread talking about the Berserker's leap...

Btw Cr0m, I believe that it would be better to make any suggestions in Nightdive's official Discord server. I personally don't use that app (thus I can't share a link to it), but there would be far better chances of talking with them there.

[FixbotWill]

Originally posted by Cr0m:

you can't dodge the laser guards, you can't dodge hitscan bullets

This is objectively wrong. Most of the hitscan bullets in the original Quake II were fundamentally bad at hitting a strafing player. Machine Gun Guard, Enforcer, Gunner, Hornet, Jorg. All of them had the same firing mechanic as the Gladiator railgun: they fire at the spot you were a brief moment ago, so if you strafe, you dodge it. (Machine Gun Guard is a slight exception because his weapon had a slight drift, so you might take the occasional bullet by accident)
The only hitscan bullet in the original Quake II with good accuracy came from the Super Tank, which was deadly accurate against a strafing player. (The Carrier in Ground Zero was better against a strafing player)

Incidentally, the remaster improves all of the above except the Super Tank; they now have better accuracy against a strafing player. Super Tank got substantially *worse* in this regard, and in my mind didn't really need to, but you can't have everything.

The rest of your post is nonsense because you're doing exactly the thing I observed, yet again; deliberately ignoring what the criticism of the Berserker leap actually is. I didn't ask for tactical advice against a Berserker. I said it shouldn't hit you when it lands absolutely nowhere near you. And nobody, absolutely nobody has come up with a good answer.

[Cr0m]

they're patching the berzerker leap so will you just shut up?

[FixbotWill]

In the other thread you conceded that I was right but insisted on attacking me personally, presumably seeing that as a better option to backing down from the argument. I think that says it all.

[Cr0m]

saying i 'conceded you were right' is a gross mischaracterization of the truth, and i would expect nothing less from someone like you. i never denied it was undodgeable, i only said that everything considered it doesn't matter, and that you can play smart and prevent it from being an issue. you're basically a liar so i'm blocking you. have fun being a miserable person.

[FixbotWill]

Again, you conceded that I was right but you're absolutely hell-bent on attacking me personally, because to your mind it's better than just cooling down and backing down from the argument.

[Cr0m]

Originally posted by Salander:

Oh, everybody look! Yet another thread talking about the Berserker's leap...

Btw Cr0m, I believe that it would be better to make any suggestions in Nightdive's official Discord server. I personally don't use that app (thus I can't share a link to it), but there would be far better chances of talking with them there.

this isn't 'another thread talking about the berzerker's leap'

i'm proposing that they have a MAIN game mode and an ALT/REMIX mode with any and all changes, right in the menu. to try and reduce that down to this all being about the berzerker leap is pretty lame.

and gee thanks for your suggestion about discord but my thought was that if other people saw the idea (and this could include people from either side of the debate, re: liking the changes or not), posted their agreement, and the thread grew large enough it would serve as more of a statement to the developers than just a single person saying it in discord.

[Salander]

Originally posted by Cr0m:

this isn't 'another thread talking about the berzerker's leap'

i'm proposing that they have a MAIN game mode and an ALT/REMIX mode with any and all changes, right in the menu. to try and reduce that down to this all being about the berzerker leap is pretty lame.

I read your thread and, regardless of your insults, I didn't reduce in that way (thus my suggestion about the Discord). It just that in the moment someone name the leap, it transforms in yet another discussion about that and only that.

It's annoying and a little bit ridiculous by now.

[Antroid]

I like the irony of you calling people crybabies and then crying about Hexen.

[Cr0m]

Originally posted by Salander:

Originally posted by Cr0m:

this isn't 'another thread talking about the berzerker's leap'

i'm proposing that they have a MAIN game mode and an ALT/REMIX mode with any and all changes, right in the menu. to try and reduce that down to this all being about the berzerker leap is pretty lame.

I read your thread and, regardless of your insults, I didn't reduce in that way (thus my suggestion about the Discord). It just that in the moment someone name the leap, it transforms in yet another discussion about that and only that.

It's annoying and a little bit ridiculous by now.

you did reduce it because you plainly said that it's another thread about the leap. the only reason there's so much talk about the leap is because of the other guy and you focusing on that one aspect which isn't even the point of the thread. but just ignore the point i made about a thread with people discussing a topic being able to have more weight than a single person in a discord, it's ok.

Originally posted by Antroid:

I like the irony of you calling people crybabies and then crying about Hexen.

there's a clear difference here and you are possibly intelligent enough to have seen that on your own, but here goes- the current situation is that a company is remastering games. people are complaining about changes they make. hexen on the other hand is a 25+yo game. i'm not crying about it, i'm pointing out that they could address a lot of complaints with it if they do a remaster. and at the same time they could please everyone by having a separate mode for any game altering changes, going forward.

[Salander]

Good luck enticing a "conversation" while calling people names, insulting them and plain denying anything that's has been said to you while putting the blame to others 🙌🏻.

[Cr0m]

thanks!

[Cannonaire]

Just give us options for each major change, for example the railgun damage, berserker leap, and machinegun recoil. Those are the three main complaints I see, and I would love to play with only one or two of them on.