Was Ember's rework good?

[Tako]

Hi never played Ember before the rework in fact only played once before the rework on the xbox 360, anyways I think she sucks damage reduction doesnt matter for end game content. Her passive sucks only 50% extra strength. HAVE YOU SEEN NYX NEW MASSIVE HOLY MOLY TALK ABOUT POWERCREEP.

Abilities:
Fireball: it sucks very weak even with 12x combo with 300%+ strength
Immolation: 50-90% damage reduction is okay for when ur not in steel path needs to do more like also increase strength(make it scale with strength or range idc ember sucks just fix her)
Fire Blast: its good, i have zero problems with this.
Inferno: its funny, wish it was useful.

The augments suck and that includes fireball frenzy im not gonna use fireball its trash.

Her booty is nice and many will say thats all that matters, so if you wont fix all her problems just add jiggle physics and ill shut up like a good consumer.

[Aerine]

Цитата допису Razer:

I would not use exothermic and just replace her 4th with something like Eclipse if you're going anywhere like Zariman or higher. Her 4th becomes near useless. Her 3 and 2 have negative synergy so if you want to armor strip you're better off having something that gives guaranteed DR instead of the awful 2. You can enable 2 if you want, but honestly I wouldn't unless you're in a pinch. Plenty of other ways to get energy. Replace exothermic with energy nexus and you're good.

never have problem with her in zariman even in lvl cap, go watch the video her 4th melt sp heavy gunner like a butter

i always switch her 1 with either eclipse or breach surge, her 3 is not just for armor strip its for viral proc too with arcane truculence, her 4 is not useless i use it for energy orb and 90% DR uptime, she's energy hungry so energy nexus wont do it since i use 2 with 90% almost all the time

the downside about her i think is she's weak if there's not many enemy around her

[Razer]

Цитата допису Aerine:

Цитата допису Razer:

I would not use exothermic and just replace her 4th with something like Eclipse if you're going anywhere like Zariman or higher. Her 4th becomes near useless. Her 3 and 2 have negative synergy so if you want to armor strip you're better off having something that gives guaranteed DR instead of the awful 2. You can enable 2 if you want, but honestly I wouldn't unless you're in a pinch. Plenty of other ways to get energy. Replace exothermic with energy nexus and you're good.

never have problem with her in zariman even in lvl cap, go watch the video her 4th melt sp heavy gunner like a butter

i always switch her 1 with either eclipse or breach surge, her 3 is not just for armor strip its for viral proc too with arcane truculence, her 4 is not useless i use it for energy orb and 90% DR uptime, she's energy hungry so energy nexus wont do it since i use 2 with 90% almost all the time

the downside about her i think is she's weak if there's not many enemy around her

Yea that's not her 4th that's melting enemies. That's Wisps ability.

[Aerine]

Цитата допису Razer:

Цитата допису Aerine:

never have problem with her in zariman even in lvl cap, go watch the video her 4th melt sp heavy gunner like a butter

i always switch her 1 with either eclipse or breach surge, her 3 is not just for armor strip its for viral proc too with arcane truculence, her 4 is not useless i use it for energy orb and 90% DR uptime, she's energy hungry so energy nexus wont do it since i use 2 with 90% almost all the time

the downside about her i think is she's weak if there's not many enemy around her

Yea that's not her 4th that's melting enemies. That's Wisps ability.

how about this?
same build but with roar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3tOSNf-nnU

[Rayu]

Цитата допису Razer:

Цитата допису Aerine:

never have problem with her in zariman even in lvl cap, go watch the video her 4th melt sp heavy gunner like a butter

i always switch her 1 with either eclipse or breach surge, her 3 is not just for armor strip its for viral proc too with arcane truculence, her 4 is not useless i use it for energy orb and 90% DR uptime, she's energy hungry so energy nexus wont do it since i use 2 with 90% almost all the time

the downside about her i think is she's weak if there's not many enemy around her

Yea that's not her 4th that's melting enemies. That's Wisps ability.

how is it that wisp's ability is the one melting enemies when they still melt when i use ember, and i dont have anything subsumed on her? did some more steel path survival on her today, went up to an hour, stuff still dies without me shooting it.

[Aerine]

Цитата допису CD's_nuts:

Ember's 4th is killing people because of viral and enemy grouping, with a subsume it's gonna kill faster. spawn a singular gunner, without any kind of priming and only using her 3 and 4, you'll see it takes 15-ish seconds for 1 singular enemy.

i already mention that, but this is warframe you wont 1v1 enemy, even if you gonna 1v1 the enemy just shoot it with your gun, problem solved

Цитата допису CD's_nuts:

Yeah no, just testing frost again, and there's 0 hope for an ember being better than frost. if i use 1 aoe weapon, everything gets one-shoted in under 4 seconds, without 10 stacks of viral, without roar or breach surge, just pressing 4 and using biting frost and it's over. my meme is really correct, ember's rework was one of the reworks of all time.

and there's no hope for frost is better than dante
i dont see your point here, this is not about ember being the best warframe

[Aerine]

Цитата допису CD's_nuts:

Цитата допису Aerine:

i already mention that, but this is warframe you wont 1v1 enemy, even if you gonna 1v1 the enemy just shoot it with your gun, problem solved

Ofc it's not a 1v1 frame, nobody is i think, it's just how her base kit is mid, and if you have a bad base kit, then it'll take more effort to make it better. the priming + grouping + subsume on your vids.

Цитата допису Aerine:

and there's no hope for frost is better than dante
i dont see your point here, this is not about ember being the best warframe

Definitely. the point is how ember and frost were both reworked together, yet one is mid compared to the other. that's it, nothing special.

Something special is how frost's strength was overshadowed by ember heirloom. nobody plays frost.

i see, yeah i agree she's an expensive frame to build and still need more buff but she's not as bad as people say

[Inner Sight]

Цитата допису CD's_nuts:

Definitely. the point is how ember and frost were both reworked together, yet one is mid compared to the other. that's it, nothing special.

Something special is how frost's strength was overshadowed by ember heirloom. nobody plays frost.

My personal belief is that most (not all obvs) people are the frame they want because that frame appeals to them. It's scary, it's cool, it's sexy, it's Batman, it represents a faction they like, ect. Appeal is #1.

After that bridge is crossed there's the second bridge a frame/weapon needs to cross to be used: viability. It doesn't have to be the best at anything. It just has to be good enough.

Example. Hydroid is a water-based pirate-themed warframe with tentacles. That description will absolutely appeal to certain people. But because he wasn't viable before the rework players just didn't play him. Now I see him sometimes.

Also I still see Frost now and then. I think players still see him as the defense guy (even though he's more than viable at general missions). They remember the bubble and late-game defense missions rarely have a static object to defend so he gets popped onto the backburner. He's great though if they try him again.

[Terminal Desolation]

Цитата допису Sweet D:

im gonna spit my hot take here. the rework prior was the best. every one thought it was weak because they had no idea how accelerant worked and if we had the current heat procc buff we have now then, she'd have been absolutely fine she just needed buffs not a rework.
( i can't remember if old fire blast stripped armor but i think it did? )

i think ember is a victim caught in the crossfire of DE wanting to cut back on people melting enemies in low level missions killing everything before with low level players causing a less fun environment, this however i feel was only really a problem in fissure missions where rushing is pretty much the name of the game. this was also slightly remedied with steel path fissures and omina fissures helping pull vets and noobs apart, i think we have room for old emeber's style back.

what if: legacy helminth system to add old abilities back would be great for only the few frames where not everyone likes the current rework obviously this wouldn't be for many frames it be alot of work to maintain but would allow people to have either ember they enjoy. hell even the augment mods could change according to which abilities you have equip same aug it just transmutates itself depending on which version of the ability you have. ( this obviously would be more stuff to maintain and the devs wouldn't be very inclined to do so but i would like to stress again it'd be for very few frames, maybe you like hydroid's puddle? i kinda did)

i at least wish we could remove the cone targeting from inferno axe 25% of its range and just make it a circular AOE LOS targeting like 90% of the other frames ( that is if we can never have the previous ember back... i'd just prefer old ember with some buffs and the new heat proc... she'd be so good with current heat proc :TheRooster:)

Final note i am not talking about World on fire , accelerant ember rework where she had better range at the begining of World on fire but it gradually shrunk and got stronger, that rework was trash

just wanted to say I agree with you on Accelerant

I thought it was one of the coolest abilities in Ember's kit and it was super neat that she had something like that to make her the Best Fire Frame. I hadn't realized it at the time but looking back that change really is when I switched from using her as much. Real shame, I'd like her to get something like that back. Maybe dump Fireball or put an augment for one of her abilities to do something similar.

[BurlsoL]

To answer the question though. Yes, arguably she was worse before the rework.

Before rework she was one of the main afk frames out there since her 4 would just auto-kill the area as you run through or stand on the defense pod. While this sounds good, the damage potential tapered off significantly when you started encountering higher level enemies. Accelerant helped with the damage slightly, but required either more energy than you could usually manage without consumables to keep up and required a more active playstyle where you were basically better off with other nukeing frames (Saryn).

Her rework killed that passive farming thing in favor of making her more of an active frame (something they've done to other frame designs since then). It increased her overall damage potential and allowed her to strip armor, which at the time was one of the biggest endgame issues.

Currently, she's still capable when built right, but is suffering from that place of not being particularly good at anything currently meaningful since much of her damage depends on DoT effects and stripping armor, which takes time. Compared to other frames that kill quickly, she feels weak.