Was Ember's rework good?

[Tako]

Hi never played Ember before the rework in fact only played once before the rework on the xbox 360, anyways I think she sucks damage reduction doesnt matter for end game content. Her passive sucks only 50% extra strength. HAVE YOU SEEN NYX NEW MASSIVE HOLY MOLY TALK ABOUT POWERCREEP.

Abilities:
Fireball: it sucks very weak even with 12x combo with 300%+ strength
Immolation: 50-90% damage reduction is okay for when ur not in steel path needs to do more like also increase strength(make it scale with strength or range idc ember sucks just fix her)
Fire Blast: its good, i have zero problems with this.
Inferno: its funny, wish it was useful.

The augments suck and that includes fireball frenzy im not gonna use fireball its trash.

Her booty is nice and many will say thats all that matters, so if you wont fix all her problems just add jiggle physics and ill shut up like a good consumer.

[Tako]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Arch-Magos Wicked:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Tak⭕:

mag passive saves a slot on ur pet who can carry any warframe in steel path

if you need a pet to carry you in steel path i have some very bad news for you

as i said ur pets "CAN" carry you easily so why is my warframe just booty cheeks

[Incunabulum]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Tak⭕:

Hi never played Ember before the rework in fact only played once before the rework on the xbox 360, anyways I think she sucks damage reduction doesnt matter for end game content. Her passive sucks only 50% extra strength. HAVE YOU SEEN NYX NEW MASSIVE HOLY MOLY TALK ABOUT POWERCREEP.

Abilities:
Fireball: it sucks very weak even with 12x combo with 300%+ strength
Immolation: 50-90% damage reduction is okay for when ur not in steel path needs to do more like also increase strength(make it scale with strength or range idc ember sucks just fix her)
Fire Blast: its good, i have zero problems with this.
Inferno: its funny, wish it was useful.

The augments suck and that includes fireball frenzy im not gonna use fireball its trash.

Her booty is nice and many will say thats all that matters, so if you wont fix all her problems just add jiggle physics and ill shut up like a good consumer.

That depends on what you consider 'good'.

I never played Ember after the rework. For me, the whole point of Ember was to AFK endless Defense missions.

[Sweet D]

im gonna spit my hot take here. the rework prior was the best. every one thought it was weak because they had no idea how accelerant worked and if we had the current heat procc buff we have now then, she'd have been absolutely fine she just needed buffs not a rework.
( i can't remember if old fire blast stripped armor but i think it did? )

i think ember is a victim caught in the crossfire of DE wanting to cut back on people melting enemies in low level missions killing everything before with low level players causing a less fun environment, this however i feel was only really a problem in fissure missions where rushing is pretty much the name of the game. this was also slightly remedied with steel path fissures and omina fissures helping pull vets and noobs apart, i think we have room for old emeber's style back.

what if: legacy helminth system to add old abilities back would be great for only the few frames where not everyone likes the current rework obviously this wouldn't be for many frames it be alot of work to maintain but would allow people to have either ember they enjoy. hell even the augment mods could change according to which abilities you have equip same aug it just transmutates itself depending on which version of the ability you have. ( this obviously would be more stuff to maintain and the devs wouldn't be very inclined to do so but i would like to stress again it'd be for very few frames, maybe you like hydroid's puddle? i kinda did)

i at least wish we could remove the cone targeting from inferno axe 25% of its range and just make it a circular AOE LOS targeting like 90% of the other frames ( that is if we can never have the previous ember back... i'd just prefer old ember with some buffs and the new heat proc... she'd be so good with current heat proc )

Final note i am not talking about World on fire , accelerant ember rework where she had better range at the begining of World on fire but it gradually shrunk and got stronger, that rework was trash

[Sweet D]

can't see how ember being restored to her old glory could be a problem in an age where we have dansmacabre and protea's turret augs and especially thermal sunder spam just give me my ideal fissure exterminate rusher back pls

[Tako]

almost like they want you just to play Saryn with venom dose + Nourish + Toxic Lash using any Ocucor build its the most brain dead experience. But so is farming relics, opening or obtaining them.

[Sweet D]

they took killed old ember and then replaced her with gyre

[C486]

Not really. Course, I rocked with WoF and fire quake for pretty much everything back then.

So the Ember rework/nerf was necessary to get into trying other frames.

[jonnin]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Inner Sight:

I found her completely viable even several rotations into steel path. I'm sure there are better options if you're looking for the most optimal warframe to choose from, but yeah Ember is fine.

Before the rework she was genuinely incapable of surviving solo under pressure. Originally her 4th was "World on fire". A constant channeled AoE that went off in a radius around her - similar to day-form Equinox without the damage-spike finisher. It make low level missions very convenient. Everything died as soon as it got in range. But once she played a mission where things survived the 4th ability long enough where the stagger effect from being on fire wore off she'd always get overwhelmed.

She just wasn't a safe option to go into the deep end with. Past-Ember felt like how banshee feels right now. I would not feel safe dragging her into a high level solo.

I am not sure that is a great comparison. Banshee is a team player... 4th can be set to low damage, infinite duration and provide a large radius of staggered enemy that just dance forever while the team clears out the eximus that ignore it. Her sonar multiplies the teams damage on everything by 10 or more and spreads after each kill to new spawns. Ember was never a team player -- burning stuff does not CC well enough, and the damage isn't there either for high end content -- or if it is, I can't manage it. Banshee solo and ember solo.. now that I get as a comparison, but solo banshee just drops 10x damage and a shotgun does the rest, so you can do a lot of damage with her (even if delicate) and succeed at moderately high content. Certainly banshee's 4th solo lacks any utility and fails to kill (might spec for bursts to solo, but shes not a solo frame, shes a team player). I would rather solo banshee than ember by a lot, but I wouldn't as first pick even so.

Ember needs... something. The big issue that I see is that almost no enemy take extra damage from heat, so right off she is a nonstarter, unlike say mag who can at least do something since magnetic hurts overshields/overguard. If they reworked her again I would change her armor strip to a fire vulnerable aoe, and even that may not be enough.

[Inner Sight]

Opprinnelig skrevet av jonnin:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Inner Sight:

I found her completely viable even several rotations into steel path. I'm sure there are better options if you're looking for the most optimal warframe to choose from, but yeah Ember is fine.

Before the rework she was genuinely incapable of surviving solo under pressure. Originally her 4th was "World on fire". A constant channeled AoE that went off in a radius around her - similar to day-form Equinox without the damage-spike finisher. It make low level missions very convenient. Everything died as soon as it got in range. But once she played a mission where things survived the 4th ability long enough where the stagger effect from being on fire wore off she'd always get overwhelmed.

She just wasn't a safe option to go into the deep end with. Past-Ember felt like how banshee feels right now. I would not feel safe dragging her into a high level solo.

I am not sure that is a great comparison. Banshee is a team player... 4th can be set to low damage, infinite duration and provide a large radius of staggered enemy that just dance forever while the team clears out the eximus that ignore it. Her sonar multiplies the teams damage on everything by 10 or more and spreads after each kill to new spawns. Ember was never a team player -- burning stuff does not CC well enough, and the damage isn't there either for high end content -- or if it is, I can't manage it. Banshee solo and ember solo.. now that I get as a comparison, but solo banshee just drops 10x damage and a shotgun does the rest, so you can do a lot of damage with her (even if delicate) and succeed at moderately high content. Certainly banshee's 4th solo lacks any utility and fails to kill (might spec for bursts to solo, but shes not a solo frame, shes a team player). I would rather solo banshee than ember by a lot, but I wouldn't as first pick even so.

Ember needs... something. The big issue that I see is that almost no enemy take extra damage from heat, so right off she is a nonstarter, unlike say mag who can at least do something since magnetic hurts overshields/overguard. If they reworked her again I would change her armor strip to a fire vulnerable aoe, and even that may not be enough.

Yeah when you scrutinize it then old ember and present banshee being the same would definitely not be a perfect analogy. Especially if you consider each person's personal leanings and skill with frames. Or go into detail with situational pros and cons.

I guess personally speaking I didn't do as well with past ember as I do with present ember. And even though sometimes I try to make Banshee work out I've never quite got to a level where I feel invincible in steel path with her.

Point to all that was though: reworked Ember is perfectly viable. She can go into steel path.

[Simbah]

Ember is... okay, ish. Not bad.

Pretty sure the "hold skill for weapon damage" augment was reworked in a way that makes it good. Shock Trooper for Volt gives you 100% final electric damage, as in your final modded damage, add 100% of that with electric. So, unless I'm misremembering things, she should be able to do good heat procs with her 1 augment.

Other than that, you need at least 2 augments for her to be somewhat viable for high end content, the "energy orb chance one" and the "healing/overguard fireblast" one. Or use Nourish because she is so energy hungry.

[rhoenix]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Simbah:

Ember is... okay, ish. Not bad.

Pretty sure the "hold skill for weapon damage" augment was reworked in a way that makes it good. Shock Trooper for Volt gives you 100% final electric damage, as in your final modded damage, add 100% of that with electric. So, unless I'm misremembering things, she should be able to do good heat procs with her 1 augment.

Other than that, you need at least 2 augments for her to be somewhat viable for high end content, the "energy orb chance one" and the "healing/overguard fireblast" one. Or use Nourish because she is so energy hungry.

Eh, her 4 drops off in efficacy fairly quickly - to be honest, I only use it to raise the Heat meter back up, so I don't bother with its augment.

The Healing Flame augment though to give her stacking Overguard is pretty great.

[JediKnightSky]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Tak⭕:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Arch-Magos Wicked:

if you need a pet to carry you in steel path i have some very bad news for you

as i said ur pets "CAN" carry you easily so why is my warframe just booty cheeks

[Ittrix]

Ember is... good. And, that's more or less all she is.
She can tank steel path if you prop up some defensive mods to pair with Immolation.
She has access to armor strip and (overguard tanking with augments) via Fire Blast.
Inferno is a good CC at the minimum, and *can* room clear at a... pace... for awhile. If you use heat inherit it can room clear for awhile longer.
Fireball is potato. As far as I can tell, it is intended to be potato, just like volt's and frost's variations of it (and to some degree, old hydroid). I don't understand why DE insists it has to be, but it's not a horrific deal breaker. It's just a free subsume slot.

She could certainly use something more. Be better. There are frames which are, with far less effort. But, she ain't in a horrible place either.

The only thing she really lacks is upfront damage and scaling. Which, ironically, is the exact same issue people had with her old design lmao. Goalposts just got moved further than level 30.

[Tasha Vulpine]

Opprinnelig skrevet av C486:

Not really. Course, I rocked with WoF and fire quake for pretty much everything back then.

So the Ember rework/nerf was necessary to get into trying other frames.

Even if changes were necessary, it doesn't mean they had to turn her into the most boring, mediocre frame imaginable.

[Ittrix]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ittrix:

She could certainly use something more.
-snip-
The only thing she really lacks is upfront damage and scaling.

If I were in charge of Ember's design, I'd give her a new skill with some kind of scaling.

Something along the lines of consuming all nearby heat status' and dealing their remaining damage (multiplied by some formula using the heat gauge and #OfTargetsSufferingInferno) as an AOE centered on Ember. Like a big backdraft she starts with the surrounding heat.

It'd enable gunplay to bolster her ability damage, and encourage using the rest of her kit still. And, if the ability itself causes status effects, it could be used to reset to a higher heat inherit value.