I think I can finally name the two major problems in Warframe thesedays

[Knavenformed]

So I've been playing Warframe for years now and the grind has become progressively worse for a year or two now.

The first major problem is the *heavy* grind gating of new Warframes

I think the point it started at was Titania where you got all blueprints from its mainline mission, now you only get the main blueprint from a barely related quest and have to grind ridiculous grinds if you're new.
And for me a "Warframe" is the biggest part of gameplay, each day you log in you have to play with one and you most likely have your favorite frames, and before I asked new players "go check the market and choose a Warframe and we can progress together to get it for you" but lately the frames have become such grind fests that I don't want to tell them "yeah how about no takes way too long"
It's like if in Destiny 2 you had to choose between the Hunter and the Warlock but Titan was behind a paygate or a month of grind.

I already thought Hildryn and Baruuk were too much to ask from new players if they wanted the frames, a whole faction grind and then a high leveled bounty grind for ridiculously low drop rates for the second faction, now Xaku forces players to do the faction grind and mining in all locales.
Yeah it takes like an hour or two if you had done it already, but it can take a good month for a new player who wants to advance the story first because the faction reputation is heavily timegated each day for low rank players, and it's still too much compared to old content drops.

The second is underdeveloped gameplay pulled straight out from other games

You know I absolutely love the "Shadow of Mordor/War" games, and I was genuinely hyped to play Warframe again after they announced Kuva Liches aka randomly generated arch villains for you, like an orc from the shadow games who's killed you a couple of times and you get to know them, but even to this day the Liches have like 2 personalities depending on their gender and they constantly talk the same things over and over.
I just ended up starting a new game in Shadow of War.

Same with Railjack, I liked it myself, the grind was easily way too much but it was fun, but I ended up buying and learning to play Elite Dangerous.
And now I want to play Titanfall 2 again because of the Necramechs.

I just don't think I'll even bother logging on to see the new updates if they're blatantly taken from from other games now, because that's just damaging to the artistic integrity of Warframe and is never as good as what they're trying to imitate, I want to play Waframe but in a way where it feels natural, having to grind some "minerals" for hours or tracking an animal the same way for the umpteenth time is not fun gameplay in a ninja looter shooter if you just sit around wasting time like that in new content, and all that to get a new Warframe? Okay what then? You use the Warframe in new content which is again just doing the same bounty cycle over and over again or just sitting semi-afk finding minerals or animals.

[Azor]

As a new player, I don't care about how hard it is to farm the new warframes.

THERE ARE OTHER 43 WARFRAMES AND I HAVE SPACE FOR 5

[Knavenformed]

Първоначално публикувано от No_Quarter:

Първоначално публикувано от Knavenformed:

but I don't think a Warframe should have a timegated grind that long at all.

I admire your enthusiasm young padawan, however, live service games have to have it in order to maintain playerbase.

F2P game that give you everything right now and for free is a dead game.

So it's an instantly dead game.

Any farm you do not like you can skip, you can buy everything for money but if you do not like the game then why would you buy it? Cause completionist mind hurts you?

Please compare the grind of Warframes after and before Titania, with today's standards Titania is almost given away for free.
And I don't know if you remember the times when there were no junctions or end game outside the void tower keys, but you could get stuff you wanted in a day or a week.
Every day or week a new thing for anyone, no matter did you start today or month ago.

Now things that were much easier to get are being put behind increasing grinds.
"You were supposed to keep the grind on a leash, not bend your ass to it"

[No_Quarter]

Първоначално публикувано от Azor 51,8%:

As a new player, I don't care about how hard it is to farm the new warframes.

THERE ARE OTHER 43 WARFRAMES AND I HAVE SPACE FOR 5

your priority is obviously slots, which means platinum. Work from corrupted mods, those are a solid start, make sure you do your syndicates as once you progress they will give you mode ♥♥♥♥ that's good and sellable.

[Knavenformed]

Първоначално публикувано от Voodoojedizin:

People who want to get something without working for it.
All MMO's are a grind, you should know that before you even start playing. I have seen so many complain, that they can't just run through the game. Or be almighty powerful in a week. They want everything to just been given to them.

The reason anyone plays Warframe is the grind, and it's why I'm here too, but the grind for Xaku is a line I'm drawing because it's just clearly stupid compared to literally any older farm.
First it was just a mission for blueprints and other for resources.
Then questlines for blueprints.
Then questlines for the main blueprint and other blueprints in a completely other mode
Then irrelevant faction grinds for blueprints
Then questlines with blueprints scattered across the whole game

Now it's a questline for a main blueprint with part grinds from bounties with a good hour of boring ass mining/fishing, two reputation 2 grinds and a need for a full faction reputation grind to access a grind for a resource

Does that sound reasonable to you? Like a proper evolution of an ethical F2P game?

[No_Quarter]

Първоначално публикувано от Knavenformed:

Първоначално публикувано от No_Quarter:

I admire your enthusiasm young padawan, however, live service games have to have it in order to maintain playerbase.

F2P game that give you everything right now and for free is a dead game.

So it's an instantly dead game.

Any farm you do not like you can skip, you can buy everything for money but if you do not like the game then why would you buy it? Cause completionist mind hurts you?

Please compare the grind of Warframes after and before Titania, with today's standards Titania is almost given away for free.
And I don't know if you remember the times when there were no junctions or end game outside the void tower keys, but you could get stuff you wanted in a day or a week.
Every day or week a new thing for anyone, no matter did you start today or month ago.

Now things that were much easier to get are being put behind increasing grinds.
"You were supposed to keep the grind on a leash, not bend your ass to it"

Titania can be annoying to certain people cause they have to go and scan plants. So there is argument against your argument as there is always one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who wants something but does not want to do anything for it.

You seem to be stuck in history, you parted with the game and that is normal.

Equinox was introduced before Titania and on average, Equinox takes way longer than Xaku does, even if you count the quest as pure Xaku farm. Mesa used to take longer than Xaku.

It's easy to take examples of something that fits your story but how about this - Excalibur Umbra was introduced somewhat recently and that thing is built in a minute - how does that fit your agenda? It does not, so what's your point?

It would be stupid if every warframe was obtained like Xaku, like Exalibur Umbra, like Titania, like Equinox, like Mesa, like Atlas. But with such approach it is just impossible to like every single farm.
I dislike Sanctuary and for me Khora was terrible to farm even tho both times I farmed her I got lucky and got her way before the "expected" time. I still hated it but I like Khora - so should they change it? Imo, not.

You are just overwhelmed by a more complicated system of a game you used to play. Warframe was more simple back in the day but grind is not worse - you are just overwhelmed and lazy to understand it.

Doing 5 different things for 1 hour or repeating same bossfight for an hour to get a warframe is the same amount of grinding my dude, it just takes a tad more engagement to deal with tokens as opposed to repeating same mission for an hour and one shotting the boss.

To each their own, I like Xaku farm way more than repetitive bossfights.

[Knavenformed]

Първоначално публикувано от wavel54:

I've played around 1000 hours according to ingame time, 2000 according to steam. Played since 2014 I think, though took a fair break, hbu?

There has been promise since launch and the game is infinitely better than it was initially at launch, so let's not pretend promise gets you nowhere.

About the same game history really, and sure Deadlock Protocol was a fine update and completely fine, but it did not really bring back the game it was solid to those who still played.
It was a "safe" update, making the game we love better on a base, but the completely new additions have failed just because they seem to be fit or pulled from other games.
And yes the game has improved, but if they keep up with the biggest updates being Railjack and Lich level it won't go far.
Also I could argue that how casually people can get the best items in game the powerlevel is currently complete trash and unbalanced compared to 2-3 years back.

[Azor]

Първоначално публикувано от No_Quarter:

Първоначално публикувано от Azor 51,8%:

As a new player, I don't care about how hard it is to farm the new warframes.

THERE ARE OTHER 43 WARFRAMES AND I HAVE SPACE FOR 5

your priority is obviously slots, which means platinum. Work from corrupted mods, those are a solid start, make sure you do your syndicates as once you progress they will give you mode ♥♥♥♥ that's good and sellable.

Working on it. Have sold some of those orokin vault mods: one of these days I got lucky to find 7 fleeting expertise in a row. But I might use my platinum to buy another vaulted prime warframe as I want Frost and Loki, though the latter is too expensive, or some exclusive mods to upgrade my weapons and Corrosive Projection aura because I haven't got lucky with the Nightwave store.

[No_Quarter]

Първоначално публикувано от Azor 51,8%:

Първоначално публикувано от No_Quarter:

your priority is obviously slots, which means platinum. Work from corrupted mods, those are a solid start, make sure you do your syndicates as once you progress they will give you mode ♥♥♥♥ that's good and sellable.

Working on it. Have sold some of those orokin vault mods: one of these days I got lucky to find 7 fleeting expertise in a row. But I might use my platinum to buy another vaulted prime warframe as I want Frost and Loki, though the latter is too expensive, or some exclusive mods to upgrade my weapons and Corrosive Projection aura because I haven't got lucky with the Nightwave store.

Here's a tip - do not rush with Prime warframes unless you really really like the original and you play it all the time.

They all eventually get unvaulted and even without that you will get tons of vaulted parts on fissures cause veterans have no clue what they have in their inventory. I have over 2000 relics and up until mr15-18 I kinda knew what i had in there, now it's just a mess, I basically click on random. And I am sure most high mr players do that as well.

So take your time with it, it's probably better to get more of those standard warframes and see which one you feel like playing more. Cause only way to know is to try, no video or guide can tell you what's for you.

7 Fleeting Expertise's in a row is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lucky af. Think there are 24 mods in the pool of Derelict Vaults, all have same drop chance..
Corrosive Projection is no longer that op as it was, DE nerfed armor so hard that even for sortie level missions it's not really needed, so again, no need to rush for it.

[Knavenformed]

Първоначално публикувано от No_Quarter:

Titania can be annoying to certain people cause they have to go and scan plants. So there is argument against your argument as there is always one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who wants something but does not want to do anything for it.

You seem to be stuck in history, you parted with the game and that is normal.

Equinox was introduced before Titania and on average, Equinox takes way longer than Xaku does, even if you count the quest as pure Xaku farm. Mesa used to take longer than Xaku.

It's easy to take examples of something that fits your story but how about this - Excalibur Umbra was introduced somewhat recently and that thing is built in a minute - how does that fit your agenda? It does not, so what's your point?

You are just overwhelmed by a more complicated system of a game you used to play. Warframe was more simple back in the day but grind is not worse - you are just overwhelmed and lazy to understand it.

Doing 5 different things for 1 hour or repeating same bossfight for an hour to get a warframe is the same amount of grinding my dude, it just takes a tad more engagement to deal with tokens as opposed to repeating same mission for an hour and one shotting the boss.

To each their own, I like Xaku farm way more than repetitive bossfights.

Of course exceptions are always applicable, but a least the blueprints for Equinox don't need you to have maximum standing with Simaris for no reason.
Mesa you can farm with a taxi an infinite amount of times in a day, Xaku cannot be gained in a day on paper.
And while Umbra is an easy to access frame I did not like it because it was too easy, getting him felt pretty much like nothing when I was looking forward to grinding him, but at least it is better than Xaku anyways.

Nice strawman in the middle, please do educate me on what I need to learn about the game.

I don't think you understand what Xaku needs, it not "just" tokens, also it requires repeating the same missions to get too, also you do not get the rare mineral from iso vaults for Xaku, do you seriously have more fun """"mining"""" for an hour compared to actual combat and speedrunning?

You liked Xaku's farm more than bossfights, sure.
But xaku's farm includes the full fortuna standing grind, did you seriously enjoy it that much?

[Nibbie]

Първоначално публикувано от No_Quarter:

Първоначално публикувано от Knavenformed:

Please compare the grind of Warframes after and before Titania, with today's standards Titania is almost given away for free.
And I don't know if you remember the times when there were no junctions or end game outside the void tower keys, but you could get stuff you wanted in a day or a week.
Every day or week a new thing for anyone, no matter did you start today or month ago.

Now things that were much easier to get are being put behind increasing grinds.
"You were supposed to keep the grind on a leash, not bend your ass to it"

Titania can be annoying to certain people cause they have to go and scan plants. So there is argument against your argument as there is always one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who wants something but does not want to do anything for it.

You seem to be stuck in history, you parted with the game and that is normal.

Equinox was introduced before Titania and on average, Equinox takes way longer than Xaku does, even if you count the quest as pure Xaku farm. Mesa used to take longer than Xaku.

It's easy to take examples of something that fits your story but how about this - Excalibur Umbra was introduced somewhat recently and that thing is built in a minute - how does that fit your agenda? It does not, so what's your point?

It would be stupid if every warframe was obtained like Xaku, like Exalibur Umbra, like Titania, like Equinox, like Mesa, like Atlas. But with such approach it is just impossible to like every single farm.
I dislike Sanctuary and for me Khora was terrible to farm even tho both times I farmed her I got lucky and got her way before the "expected" time. I still hated it but I like Khora - so should they change it? Imo, not.

You are just overwhelmed by a more complicated system of a game you used to play. Warframe was more simple back in the day but grind is not worse - you are just overwhelmed and lazy to understand it.

Doing 5 different things for 1 hour or repeating same bossfight for an hour to get a warframe is the same amount of grinding my dude, it just takes a tad more engagement to deal with tokens as opposed to repeating same mission for an hour and one shotting the boss.

To each their own, I like Xaku farm way more than repetitive bossfights.

Largely what he said. It is also worth noting that there is no reason to have all the frames earned the same way. Like you said, the way to earn frames has been constantly changing, which means there are lots of ways to do it. Many of these frames that require you to do multiple things are also things you'd want to do anyway. Mining for Xaku? Great, you need those ores for tokens or building other weapons and things too. Need to go through tons of rep grinding for hildyrn? Cool, you unlocked a bunch of useful things to buy on the way, as well as gathering stuff while you were farming that rep. If your goal is strictly and only the frame, it can be a pain, but there are other things to get too.

[Knavenformed]

Първоначално публикувано от Nibbie:

Largely what he said. It is also worth noting that there is no reason to have all the frames earned the same way. Like you said, the way to earn frames has been constantly changing, which means there are lots of ways to do it. Many of these frames that require you to do multiple things are also things you'd want to do anyway. Mining for Xaku? Great, you need those ores for tokens or building other weapons and things too. Need to go through tons of rep grinding for hildyrn? Cool, you unlocked a bunch of useful things to buy on the way, as well as gathering stuff while you were farming that rep. If your goal is strictly and only the frame, it can be a pain, but there are other things to get too.

I have not once in the discussion said that different ways to get frames is bad. Don't fill my mouth with words
I have said the way to frames has become more convoluted and grindier for no reason. Again filling my mouth with words while speaking past me.
You can multitask way too many things to mention by running the first exterminate mission in the game and the point dodges my argument completely.

You know I think Necramechs should be behind the Fortuna grind because they actually require things from there and it's a side matter/fun to have in the game, to me a whole Warframe behind it especially when it's unrelated to it is not okay.

[Slyke]

- Grind can not be the problem in a grind / collecting game. If it is a problem for you it only means that this kind of games isn't for you.
- "New players" don't have a reason to worry about newest content, they have plenty of easier to get things ahead of them.
- Gameplay is really barely even there. Challenge is not there at all (and they keep reducing it over time). Not sure if these developers are willing or even capable of changing that.

[Knavenformed]

Първоначално публикувано от Curst:

- Grind can not be the problem in a grind / collecting game. If it is a problem for you it only means that this kind of games isn't for you.
- "New players" don't have a reason to worry about newest content, they have plenty of easier to get things ahead of them.
- Gameplay is really barely even there. Challenge is not there at all (and they keep reducing it over time). Not sure if these developers are willing or even capable of changing that.

1) No ♥♥♥♥ please read my problem with it, just because it's a grinding game it doesn't mean that if they added a year long grind for the next Warframe it would be okay to bend to it.
2)That depends completely on the update at hand, Heart of Deimos is not at all endgame content. With that logic new players should not be able to jump into Plains of Eidolon or Fortuna even though they are designed specifically for everyone
3) Indeed the challenge has been slaughtered by giving easy access to arcanes especially with Scarlet Spear.

[Omnipresent Oatmeal]

Първоначално публикувано от Curst:

- Gameplay is really barely even there. Challenge is not there at all (and they keep reducing it over time). Not sure if these developers are willing or even capable of changing that.

Warframe can't have challenge simply because of how the game is designed.

DE has designed the game to have one goal: get the biggest damage numbers possible and use those damage numbers to instakill any and every enemy. The problem with this is that DE doesn't seem to actually like this.
It's very much a case of "we want the game to be a power fantasy, but only in the ways we say are OK".

Furthermore, when players find a strategy that makes something too trivial (Limbo with Scarlet Spear, for example), DE historically doesn't look at why it's being used.
They just cactus ♥♥♥♥ the strategy into the ground.
I'm pretty sure the only reason the frames most commonly used for Eidolon hunting haven't been nerfed into the ground specifically for being relevant there is because DE realized that those were the only properly useful frames for Eidolon hunting.

[Revalopod]

Първоначално публикувано от 主Miͥภgͣcͫℝ♚:

and the third problem is called danielle

na glen