big opinion, nuke frames ruin any sorta defense mission or onslaught

[Mitziete]

so i get they make things faster and way easier but frames like saryn, banshee, etc really make some missions super boring when you're not the one playing the nuke frame, i was playing hydron and some guy was instant killing enemies practically as soon as they spawned and had 242 kills while the rest of us had less than 30 kills and i ended up just quitting because we were all just standing around doing nothing.

how do you guys feel about nuke frames?

note* i'm not new, i have 400 hours and nuke frames/ semi nuke frames, i rarely use them because i feel like it makes the game boring for other players when it comes to the full-on nuke frames.

[9InchNail]

I use Saryn mainly on ESO for fast levelling on the one hand, but mainly to gather Focus fast. I neglected the Operator/Lens stuff for a long time and this is the way to catch up fast. Hydron is Mesa Prime time for me.

[ɩɲɳǒ {тн}]

Yeah I honestly only ever use my Saryn Prime in ESO, just because that's where people go to level up gear fast so a Saryn is often very welcome there and maybe Hydron. Nowhere else though, she's in fact very broken. I'm always at 85%+ kills with her as I have her set for maximum range so you can nuke the entire map as they spawn in with 0 travel time for her plague spores to infest everything... it's actually not fair to other players and so I don't use Nuke frames unless needed to ez mode certain mission types.

The analog to Saryn and nuke frames in another game you might know, Diablo 3, would be the witch doctor plauge swarm build. The plague would spread to other enemies on the map just by spamming a single button and you could just skip/run past all the enemies and they would die eventually. It nearly killed the game as every other class in the game was rendered worthless as you could speed run through all the trash mobs, and the swarm would also act as a primer for a meganuke ability that would 1 shot the hardest bosses in the game for billions of damage while your team mates would be lucky to break 10m damage.

WD was obscenely broken but the idiot designers of that game (luckily fired or resigned except retard Wyatt Cheng) eventually let power creep ramp up for all characters and now they're doing trillions of damage! you couldn't even make out your damage #'s at some point and thus ensued the death of D3 with the highest level of power creep in any game ever made. (level 1 chars do between 1-10 damage, level 1000 paragon players would be doing XX,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX trillions of damage).

I hope DE doesn't end up making the same mistake, and letting power creep destroy this game as well. It's ok to balance down the characters/weapons/mods which are breaking the game. Runaway buffs buffs buffs can also destroy a game but the fanboi's at the time decried any nerfs, 'PLEASE DON'T NERF WD JUST BUFF OTHER CHARACTERS" was the mantra that helped kill Diablo 3 eventually. Don't let that happen here!

[GladiusMalus]

Dog from the Bog a écrit :

note* i'm not new, i have 400 hours a.

*surprised Pikachu face* 400 ?? wow
In the next 400h you maybe will see that there is no way around nuke frames if you want your ♥♥♥♥ and arent willing to be inefficient or straith up use up too much time per mission

[Zefar]

AioN a écrit :

Yeah I honestly only ever use my Saryn Prime in ESO, just because that's where people go to level up gear fast so a Saryn is often very welcome there and maybe Hydron. Nowhere else though, she's in fact very broken. I'm always at 85%+ kills with her as I have her set for maximum range so you can nuke the entire map as they spawn in with 0 travel time for her plague spores to infest everything... it's actually not fair to other players and so I don't use Nuke frames unless needed to ez mode certain mission types.

She isn't broken just because her ultimate can kill stuff. She's really fragile and if high level enemies get close to her they can kill rather quickly.
But if she too is nerfed to the ground all Warframes with ultimate abilities that deal large AOE are only good for lower level mission and no where in end game.

AioN a écrit :

The analog to Saryn and nuke frames in another game you might know, Diablo 3, would be the witch doctor plauge swarm build. The plague would spread to other enemies on the map just by spamming a single button and you could just skip/run past all the enemies and they would die eventually. It nearly killed the game as every other class in the game was rendered worthless as you could speed run through all the trash mobs, and the swarm would also act as a primer for a meganuke ability that would 1 shot the hardest bosses in the game for billions of damage while your team mates would be lucky to break 10m damage.

I played Witch doctor a lot in Diablo 3 and she wasn't top tier for a long time. Maybe in one patch where she got a decent buff but other classes like Monk and Demon Hunter where often the strongest ones.
Monk got ridiculous too. Specially that Sunwooku builde or something. So much fun.

AioN a écrit :

WD was obscenely broken but the idiot designers of that game (luckily fired or resigned except retard Wyatt Cheng) eventually let power creep ramp up for all characters and now they're doing trillions of damage! you couldn't even make out your damage #'s at some point and thus ensued the death of D3 with the highest level of power creep in any game ever made. (level 1 chars do between 1-10 damage, level 1000 paragon players would be doing XX,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX trillions of damage).

The reason it changed was because people never got to a higher Greater Rift than like 107 or so and it was just impossible to get further. So Blizzard buffed abilities and sets to enable people to get to higher levels.
Also no I do not think a character would trillion trillions of damage. The game will actually struggle to calculate that high damage. With Witch Doctor and Soul harvest vs a large crowd would stop the game a bit. That wasn't even near a trillion points of damage too. So to have trillion trillions points of damage is ridiculous.

AioN a écrit :

I hope DE doesn't end up making the same mistake, and letting power creep destroy this game as well. It's ok to balance down the characters/weapons/mods which are breaking the game. Runaway buffs buffs buffs can also destroy a game but the fanboi's at the time decried any nerfs, 'PLEASE DON'T NERF WD JUST BUFF OTHER CHARACTERS" was the mantra that helped kill Diablo 3 eventually. Don't let that happen here!

Saryn isn't able to instant kill level 150 enemies with her powers. She needs to have them grow in strength before they can actually deal good amount of damage.
When they buffed the other characters in Diablo 3 they just raised the max GR people could do to get a new challenge.

[Max]

Deathan a écrit :

I will say it does get boring having a nuke frame kill everything while you are standing around and i do hope for some changes,but to give credit where credit is due the silver lining is you get to level up stuff faster or in general farm stuff faster.

My opinion is that DE is a bit of a pickle because of the whole damage / nuke "meta" thing is because of this most content gets cheesed by as you said having a saryn carrying you to victory or having people bringing there decked out chromas and snipers to the flydolon and the list goes on and on so these people cry about hard content even though they will use the most broken thing possible to cheese it,now they could nerf it sure,but the same people would cry foul because there cheese is gone and now they need to play rather than sit around and press 1-2 buttons.

Now this might just be me but i get a feeling that a % of the community are lazy,like really lazy first time i got that impression is when they reworked ash,everyone said ash was ruined because now get this you had to aim his 4,completely forgeting that his damage was buffed in general before you could literally just spam 4 and do nothing,and while sure saryn needs a bit more than spamming 4,doen't change the fact it makes the game boring,sure its great for say focus farm,and i am guilty of doing it myself only that i tend to solo these things cause i know how boring it is to bring a saryn to hydron or ESO.

I do hope they will start nerfing the nuke/damage meta cause its boring seeing every person running around with an ignis wraith and a catchmoon kitgun.

Why not offer up skill based mission? Why cant they assemble a cluster of missions types. LEVEL CAP it and weapon cap it with the math and force people to utilize their skills as a tenno to accomplish the mission for said reward. This could be offered up in varying diffoculties but offer up a badge or VANITY item displaying ones skill in being able to get it.

Example. - Braton offered up as a reward.
mission X for reward Z to all players
mission X2 for reward Z2 same item cool cosmetics for Fashion Frame so people know you had skill to get it not 4 spam.
Cosmetics is where you differ in these and I believe it would work. This way...when it matters people will know you didnt 4 spam to get it.



PS sorry for the necro

[No_Quarter]

I like how people REALLY get defensive about this topic. It is an opinion and people arguing against it almost sound like raw addicts who got their cigarettes taken away.

DE uses cheese cause it boosts profits, making it braindead puts players into a brain off or so called "automatic" mode in which you are far more likely to dish out cash and bots are fine with it as long as DE gives them one button solution to do everything and have that easy top damage in mission.

Not how any great memorable games were made, no game that marked a year or a generation was as dumb but it works as is so why complain....people leave af cause there is no effort required on their side, that is what great games make you do, games you remember your entire life.

DE is public about their encouragement of addiction, game is addictive at the core, daily stuff, bonuses, boosters, slot machines (relics, RNG drops, rivens, Liches etc) but apart from getting you addicted DE does not seem to understand what to do past that, like updates, flow, end-game, power creep, power level,,,,

[Nibbie]

Max a écrit :

Deathan a écrit :

I will say it does get boring having a nuke frame kill everything while you are standing around and i do hope for some changes,but to give credit where credit is due the silver lining is you get to level up stuff faster or in general farm stuff faster.

My opinion is that DE is a bit of a pickle because of the whole damage / nuke "meta" thing is because of this most content gets cheesed by as you said having a saryn carrying you to victory or having people bringing there decked out chromas and snipers to the flydolon and the list goes on and on so these people cry about hard content even though they will use the most broken thing possible to cheese it,now they could nerf it sure,but the same people would cry foul because there cheese is gone and now they need to play rather than sit around and press 1-2 buttons.

Now this might just be me but i get a feeling that a % of the community are lazy,like really lazy first time i got that impression is when they reworked ash,everyone said ash was ruined because now get this you had to aim his 4,completely forgeting that his damage was buffed in general before you could literally just spam 4 and do nothing,and while sure saryn needs a bit more than spamming 4,doen't change the fact it makes the game boring,sure its great for say focus farm,and i am guilty of doing it myself only that i tend to solo these things cause i know how boring it is to bring a saryn to hydron or ESO.

I do hope they will start nerfing the nuke/damage meta cause its boring seeing every person running around with an ignis wraith and a catchmoon kitgun.

Why not offer up skill based mission? Why cant they assemble a cluster of missions types. LEVEL CAP it and weapon cap it with the math and force people to utilize their skills as a tenno to accomplish the mission for said reward. This could be offered up in varying diffoculties but offer up a badge or VANITY item displaying ones skill in being able to get it.

Example. - Braton offered up as a reward.
mission X for reward Z to all players
mission X2 for reward Z2 same item cool cosmetics for Fashion Frame so people know you had skill to get it not 4 spam.
Cosmetics is where you differ in these and I believe it would work. This way...when it matters people will know you didnt 4 spam to get it.



PS sorry for the necro

Grendel, you are asking for Grendel's missions. And those were a fairly boring slog to complete, holding left click on each enemy for several seconds is not an improvement. Also, what on earth is a level cap in this game? I don't think you know what kind of logistics you are looking at or what that would accomplish. Anyway, whatever cap or balance you try to enforce, people will just find the next best thing and use that instead, the meta changes but people just complain about the new meta, it happens every single time. True balance is virtually impossible, especially in a game as big as this.

[Dundo]

BossGalaga a écrit :

If you don't like partying with random people who nuke everything with some godly modded frame/weapons then create/join your own party or party with clanmates.

it's a matter of game balance you mong

[No_Quarter]

Liv a écrit :

BossGalaga a écrit :

If you don't like partying with random people who nuke everything with some godly modded frame/weapons then create/join your own party or party with clanmates.

it's a matter of game balance you mong

Bots think it's fun to have 2 out of 40 warframes vastly outpreform everything because that is the only way bots can do missions or reach top damage in missions.

And they will use bullying methods to defend it, no actual arguments.

Cause no sane player would ever want a game where only one thing is top and everything else lacks, only a selfish prick who likes to abuse broken mechanic to feel good about him self with that false feeling of them being good. And it's socially accepted to be good so if you are not using that's top tier you are not socially accepted - classic mentality of people who have no opinion of their own.

Hence talk about balancing the game always leads to bullying and telling people that they should not play the game if they do not like absolute trash level balance DE has made.
Because who in the right mind would like to have public match without Saryn or Mesa?
Only those who cannot play without broken stuff.

And sad part is, they are buying it and DE is selling, cause DE knows that Kuva Bramma is broken and they keep it - riven prices are crazy, keeps Lich System active, money comes in, people play - statistically it is good. In reality it is a dumpster fire and DE could not care less as long as braindead bots chase their social status by dishing out insane amount of money to buy next power creep and act proud with it.

Like, this is not a random talk, this is how it's actually done game design wise. It is much higher priority for design to make money than to be nice or good, otherwise we'd have great and polished updates and no power creep. And problem is - people pay for it. If people stopped then DE would have to react, if buggy update drops and everyone boycotts it by leaving the game for an hour or two - next update would be squeaky clean and you would not be able to crash it even if you REALLY tried.
If when broken ♥♥♥♥ shows up people ignore it - DE would have to make next thing actually interesting without power creeping the game.

[Mereoleona, Fister of Fury]

tbf you should only be running a defence mission for affinity. and nuke frames make it take less time. so win win.