Is Loki bad?

[Inner Sight]

So I've started working up Loki. There's always a period of time before I truely fit into a frame enough to be good with them, but Loki is striking me as the joke character in a video game - the one people only pick to show off with rather than because it's of any use.

Am I wrong? As a Loki I found it pretty effective against high threats like Bursas (distractions and back attacks), but in signifigant danger if not on guard full time - even to a common small-fry walker or two; encounters I'd commonly brush off as nothing with any other frame.

Anytime I die with him it's often a very small experience that anything else would have had teh time to just turn around and fire a bullet to end the problem. Is Loki just the masochistic frame of the group? Or does he shine eventually as something better than a bragging right?

[RogueSoldier]

Nguyên văn bởi M4tt:

Loki is OP. Just mod him for duration.

Loki Master Race!

[Monarch]

Are people aware that OP means Over Powered in gaming term?

Loki isn't Over Powered, he is just right.
Him being extremely squishy is balanced by his kit.

Loki would be Over Powered, if he's got a power pool of Volt Prime, health and shield of Zephyr, and armor stats of a Valkyr.

Stop being a bunch of drama queen and use "OP" everywhere.

[♥♥♥♥ Goboctus]

My Loki P purpose is to be the frame for bothersome fights where even melee Inaros is not effective at all, everyone dies and its just such hassle to avoid death while pinpoint shooting

Loki, invisibility, unleash Aklex Primes 210 bullet pool from teh face

[Hanki]

Nguyên văn bởi ๖𝔪𝔞𝔧𝔬𝔯:

Loki isn't Over Powered, he is just right.

Being able to make everything in a wide area lose their weapons and fight each other with sticks no matter the lvl while being constantly invisible making health, shields or armor totally trivial
"This warframe is just right"

Nguyên văn bởi WitchTrip ㉿㉿:

Nguyên văn bởi robruckus65:

No frame is bad. Only players playing frames badly. Loki has some decent abilities with invisibilty and being able to disarm. His decoy can be helpful. The teleport can e good for moving around quickly.

oberon

You mean that frame wich is constantly procing radiation with his abilities, stripping armor with reckoning and giving 400 armor to everyone else, specially Banshee or other squishy frames?

Yeah, ♥♥♥♥ that deer/goat frame, totally ♥♥♥♥, amirite?

[76561197988918266]

he is bad...


...a55

[Void Reaper]

I've seen a games with "unfair" stealth mechanic but BOI this game hits the top in that manner.
Never seen a game where stealth(meaning going invisible) is so OP.
Loki has the best stealth in the game(excluding Octavia).

Conclusion >> ?

[WereChicken]

Nguyên văn bởi ๖𝔪𝔞𝔧𝔬𝔯:

Are people aware that OP means Over Powered in gaming term?

Loki isn't Over Powered, he is just right.
Him being extremely squishy is balanced by his kit.

Loki would be Over Powered, if he's got a power pool of Volt Prime, health and shield of Zephyr, and armor stats of a Valkyr.

Stop being a bunch of drama queen and use "OP" everywhere.

You're talking about a frame that, with augments admittedly, can make his teammates invisible, cause enemies to start attacking each other over a large area, can be invisible for ages and fire his guns silently, can use his decoy as a free instant revive (once per minute)

AND even without his augments has an insanely OP invisibility. Ivara actually has to creep about, loki can run as fast a he likes (and he's pretty damn fast naturally)

The only reason he isn't more common is he's kind of boring to play.

edit: Oops meant make your team mates invincible, stupid auto-correct. Leaving it as an edit as someone's already quoted this.

[Void Reaper]

Nguyên văn bởi WereChicken:

Nguyên văn bởi ๖𝔪𝔞𝔧𝔬𝔯:

Are people aware that OP means Over Powered in gaming term?

Loki isn't Over Powered, he is just right.
Him being extremely squishy is balanced by his kit.

Loki would be Over Powered, if he's got a power pool of Volt Prime, health and shield of Zephyr, and armor stats of a Valkyr.

Stop being a bunch of drama queen and use "OP" everywhere.

You're talking about a frame that, with augments admittedly, can make his teammates invisible, cause enemies to start attacking each other over a large area, can be invisible for ages and fire his guns silently, can use his decoy as a free instant revive (once per minute)

AND even without his augments has an insanely OP invisibility. Ivara actually has to creep about, loki can run as fast a he likes (and he's pretty damn fast naturally)

The only reason he isn't more common is he's kind of boring to play.

What he said.
It's pretty simple - if nothing can see you, nothing can kill you.
Period.
Also - in terms of DPS?
Well.. if you can safely do whatever the hell you want without worry about dieing the games look whole lot different.
You know what frames does the LEAST dps? The dead ones.
You will be always alive if you do not do anything that's extremely stupid.
That means - quite decent damage all around.

Also - all the viable builds are really easy to augment with max "Quick Thinking" and max energy, which WILL make him quite durable frame, since you can use your energy only for going in stealth, and to disarm the whole room from time to time.
How many frames you can think of that are perfect for anything aside of (Mobile) Defense?

Sooo yea...
If "just right" for you means "someone who can kill everything with 0 risk posed to him" I will agree :D

Edit:
Oh and we haven't even begin to discuss how amazing his Radial Disarm is.
You know - ADDITIONALLY removing the threat any ranged weapon/ancients/whatever else poses PERMANENTLY and stuff, with a HUGE effective radius?
For lvl 50 enemies could sound like "meh" but for much higher ones that really take challenge and time to kill - that's a whole other story.

Edit 2: Oh yea... and on top of what I said above everything affected starts to fight eachother for a looong long time(since you basically generally mod Loki for duration).

Edit 3:
KARATE ROBOTS RUMBLE!

[Da Atte]

Nguyên văn bởi M4tt:

Loki is OP. Just mod him for duration.

Just do not use Narrow Minded. You need Range too. Strength is useless so you might aswell use Overextended.

[WereChicken]

Nguyên văn bởi Da Atte:

Nguyên văn bởi M4tt:

Loki is OP. Just mod him for duration.

Just do not use Narrow Minded. You need Range too. Strength is useless so you might aswell use Overextended.

Narrow minded is fine if you also add over-extended, I don't think any of loki's abilities uses strength

[Walrus-Sama]

Loki's main flaws are his lack on any form of direct DPS, and that he is fragile.

A stray Bombard rocket and it's all over.

But if you play very carefuly, and have good damaging weapons, you'll be fine, for the most part.

[Void Reaper]

Nguyên văn bởi Walrus-Sama:

Loki's main flaws are his lack on any form of direct DPS, and that he is fragile.

A stray Bombard rocket and it's all over.

But if you play very carefuly, and have good damaging weapons, you'll be fine, for the most part.

Let's pretend, just for a second, that you're playing the mission alone.
For simplified example - let that mission be Exterminate.
Pick any number for the level of the enemies - it can go above 200 if you wish.
Let we also imply that you have decent weapons, capable of hurting those enemies of any means.
Your Loki build is max. duration, with some range(a bit above or around 100%, it's possible), you have Radial Disarm and Quick Thinking(though for that example you will hardly need it).

How much issue will you have with the mission?
Do you think you'll feel threatened by any way, aside from the stealth timer?
How many frames in the game can complete that exact same mission with ease also alone?

This answers alot imo.
Also about the "lack of damage" - as I noted - Dead DPS == No DPS.
Having that in mind, even if it's not obvious as huge beautiful numbers flying all over the screen, Loki is one of the best DPS there is, for the simple fact, that's one of the ~3 frames that can afford to be THAT consistent in terms of opportunities of constantly engaging the enemy(meaning all the time if you're careful).
Taking a time to realod/get health/try not to get killed/look for cover/try to run away that-mob-nasty-ability/etc. actually eats a whole lot of the damage you do.

[Walrus-Sama]

Nguyên văn bởi shadowcrafter:

Nguyên văn bởi Walrus-Sama:

Loki's main flaws are his lack on any form of direct DPS, and that he is fragile.

A stray Bombard rocket and it's all over.

But if you play very carefuly, and have good damaging weapons, you'll be fine, for the most part.

Let's pretend, just for a second, that you're playing the mission alone.
For simplified example - let that mission be Exterminate.
Pick any number for the level of the enemies - it can go above 200 if you wish.
Let we also imply that you have decent weapons, capable of hurting those enemies of any means.
Your Loki build is max. duration, with some range(a bit above or around 100%, it's possible), you have Radial Disarm and Quick Thinking(though for that example you will hardly need it).

How much issue will you have with the mission?
Do you think you'll feel threatened by any way, aside from the stealth timer?
How many frames in the game can complete that exact same mission with ease also alone?

This answers alot imo.
Also about the "lack of damage" - as I noted - Dead DPS == No DPS.
Having that in mind, even if it's not obvious as huge beautiful numbers flying all over the screen, Loki is one of the best DPS there is, for the simple fact, that's one of the ~3 frames that can afford to be THAT consistent in terms of opportunities of constantly engaging the enemy(meaning all the time if you're careful).
Taking a time to realod/get health/try not to get killed/look for cover/try to run away that-mob-nasty-ability/etc. actually eats a whole lot of the damage you do.

Ash, Ivara and Octavia could complete that misson with ease. Stealth frames are Masters of solo missions. This trait is not unique to Loki.

Actually, Ash would excel the most at that mission. Ivara too but she is slower.

Loki is strong, yes. His strength comes from his simplcity and that his ablitys scale infitely. But he is a trickster, not a killer.

When you need to be cloaked AND have all the enemys dead, Ash is your boi. Ivara is your grill.

Also worth noteing both Ash and Ivara have ablities that open enemys up to finishers. Allowing for the use of Convert Lethality, and a Life Strike melee weapon to instantly heal oneself. Loki does not.

[Atterax Slide Main]

Loki is ideal.

[Halyon]

You don't use Loki's kit to kill with, you use it to lock everything down with irradiating disarm, or stay invisible for ages and make rocket launchers silent with Hushed Invisibility. Some shenanigans that can be done with his switch augment, but notable usage is either Disarm or Invis.

And the good part is that you don't have to juggle all the stats to fit a balanced build, you can just dump power strength into the ground. And if you build disarm, maxing range and efficiency and keeping duration above 100% is still fine.

If you don't like that playstyle though, sure, you could say Loki is bad. But since I prefer this sort of thing, given how higher-end content works, I could say Ember is bad (she isn't). It just depends on what you like doing, and how you prefer to do it.