Supernova

[boiseaquatica]

So, I am reaching out to my scientific community here!!
I am about 95% sure I have watched documentaries, Q & A segments with physists', Neil D. Tyson etc etc say, our sun cannot supernova, but lets say it had the 8+ solar masses required, itd obliterate our solar system. I am also about 75% sure I heard that if our closest neighbor were to supernova, itd spell disaster for our solar system.

I may have misunderstood, but i have set the mass to 10 times that of the sun in our solar system sim, started a nova, but it hardly effects jupiter and even the asteroids nearby,,, seems anything past mars actually survived! now, have i just been not understanding the information? would a supernova only destroy the first few planetary bodies then only become dangerous because its superheated?

i have also tried several different solar masses,,, i have started at 10 and worked my way up to 100....then 10,000 even. i just now started an open sim, set a sun and jupiter a half AU away, started a 150 solar mass supernova and jupiter only shed a few Earth's worth of atmosphere....


ALSO, anyone know why i cant start supernovae by adding mass to other stars like i can our sun??

[OuijaMawl]

Our sun simply doesn't have enough materials to be exlosive at the end of its life. As is the same for a vast majority of stars in our universe. At the end of their lives at around 1 solar mass the supply of hydrogen begins to run extremely low and the star expands to continue to provide enough heat to continue the fusion process with the hevier element Helium once all of the material has nearly run out the star simply sheds its outer layers as it expands and leaves a Planetary Nebula with and a Neutron Star Remnant.
This process would engulf our 4 inner planets and they would be consumed by the star regarless of an explosion happening or not, however the shedding of the star layers would probably not have enough energy to have any really efffect on the outer gas giants though they would begin to drift away from their current locations at some mesurable rate after the event occured

To be truely 'explosive' the star would need to contain enough materials to continue the fusion process beyond Helium. They need to be around the size of Betelguese which is classified as a Supergiant. At the end of their lives when they have exhausted their hydrogen supply the star expands and the extra heat is enough to begin fusing even hevier elements such as Lithium and Carbon. As this star expands in mass gravity also increases along with it and when the fusion is near its end the star will lose the battle with gravaity and the core will collapse upon itself and create an exposion we see as a Supernova.

A hypernova would be an explosion of an even larger star that can continue to fuse elements until it starts to produce Iron, however Iron cannot be fused so easily so almost every star would die at the point that Iron begins to produced through fusion. The explosions from these giants usually provides enough heat at one time to fuse the heavy elements of Iron into even heviest ones on the Periodic Table almost all the Gold, Silver, Tungsten, Uranium we know of came from a super/hyper giant star going nova.

What effect these nova would have on a planetary system might be anything from complete annihilation to some of them survive based on circumstances like being ejected at high speeds or gravity was sufficient to keep things together on that planet.

There are also many classifications of types of Supernova the one in the game is a Type Ia supernova which in reality is a thermo-nuclear runaway
Type_Ia_supernova[en.wikipedia.org]
other type I novas are: Type Ib and Type Ic, these as well as the rest of the novas are core collapse events
Type II novas are different from the Type I as they have been shown to have the prescene of Hydrogen in thier absorbtion line spectrums.
They can be classified as: Type II-P, Type II-L, Type II-N, and Type II-B

[boiseaquatica]

Originally posted by boiseaquatica:

Originally posted by Callipso:

Our sun simply doesn't have enough materials to be exlosive at the end of its life. As is the same for a vast majority of stars in our universe. At the end of their lives at around 1 solar mass the supply of hydrogen begins to run extremely low and the star expands to continue to provide enough heat to continue the fusion process with the hevier element Helium once all of the material has nearly run out the star simply sheds its outer layers as it expands and leaves a Planetary Nebula with and a Neutron Star Remnant.
This process would engulf our 4 inner planets and they would be consumed by the star regarless of an explosion happening or not, however the shedding of the star layers would probably not have enough energy to have any really efffect on the outer gas giants though they would begin to drift away from their current locations at some mesurable rate after the event occured

To be truely 'explosive' the star would need to contain enough materials to continue the fusion process beyond Helium. They need to be around the size of Betelguese which is classified as a Supergiant. At the end of their lives when they have exhausted their hydrogen supply the star expands and the extra heat is enough to begin fusing even hevier elements such as Lithium and Carbon. As this star expands in mass gravity also increases along with it and when the fusion is near its end the star will lose the battle with gravaity and the core will collapse upon itself and create an exposion we see as a Supernova.

A hypernova would be an explosion of an even larger star that can continue to fuse elements until it starts to produce Iron, however Iron cannot be fused so easily so almost every star would die at the point that Iron begins to produced through fusion. The explosions from these giants usually provides enough heat at one time to fuse the heavy elements of Iron into even heviest ones on the Periodic Table almost all the Gold, Silver, Tungsten, Uranium we know of came from a super/hyper giant star going nova.

What effect these nova would have on a planetary system might be anything from complete annihilation to some of them survive based on circumstances like being ejected at high speeds or gravity was sufficient to keep things together on that planet.

There are also many classifications of types of Supernova the one in the game is a Type Ia supernova which in reality is a thermo-nuclear runaway
Type_Ia_supernova[en.wikipedia.org]
other type I novas are: Type Ib and Type Ic, these as well as the rest of the novas are core collapse events
Type II novas are different from the Type I as they have been shown to have the prescene of Hydrogen in thier absorbtion line spectrums.
They can be classified as: Type II-P, Type II-L, Type II-N, and Type II-B

Thank you so very much for your answer, truly, but I think you may have misunderstood.. I said in the second sentence of my post that I understand our sun cannot supernova, but used a hypothetical situation in which our sun did have say, at least 8 times more solar mass added to it. My question was not about supernova, but about game mechanics with supernova. In other words, I am struggling to produce them with certain stars in the game when I make conditiions right for the event to happen, i use the same technique I use to trigger a supernova with our sun with other suns, but nothing happens... I also am curious if in game, not in real life, it doesnt seem to matter if you add 10 solar masses, or 10,000 solar masses to our sun...both supernova end up effecting the same amount of area to the exact same degree. So I am wondering if the game only makes one generic supernova for the entire game and all its stars, same level of power...I know the colors of the expanding explosion may be different but I have found that is just randomly generated and has no corrolation to the amount of mass, the amount of power from the explosion or the type of star.

To simulate a supernova in our solar system I went into the simulator and changed the mass of our sun. I tried changing it to 10 solar masses, all the way up to 1000 over the course of a few dozen simulations. No matter how much the solar mass was, the damage to the universe seemed the same. I was curious why even though I am adding hundreds and hundreds of times the mass of our sun to our sun and causing a supernova, the results were the same as if i only added 15 the solar mass. That being : all planets up to Mars are vaporized...Jupiter loses exactly 3 earth masses, saturn loses about 5 earth masses and the rest is uneffected besides heating up.
So I went a step further, I placed 5 suns in a circle, went into each of their properties and changed their masses so each sun had 125 solar masses. even having 5 supernova made no difference at all to the outcome of the solar system as a whole. Even if i used the tools menu to "explode" the sun, I would try and use the force of 1 supernova, up to 10,000 and it made no difference. I also observed the color of the supernova cloud is generated randomly and has no corrolation to the force behind the explosion like some may have thought. I have been able to reproduce all the different color explosions by adding the same amount of solar mass... adding 10 solar mass to the sun caused all the color supernova clouds if repeated.

I went into graphics settings and whatnot to improve accuracy of the simulator as well. To increase accuracy even more, I used the solar system without moons etc. I have determind it isnt a performance issue with my PC not being able to process the info and create different degrees of supernova.

In order to get our sun to supernova in the simulator, I simply right clicked and brought up its properties, typed in how many solar masses I wanted and pressed enter. It immediately became a nova remnant and the explosion started. However, when I try to do this with any other star in the game, and I have tried many now, it doesnt supernova. Id like to add, I am aware how and why they supernova, I am just confused about the mechanics of the game.
I open the properties of another star, add plenty of solar masses ( ive tried adding amounts of 10, up to 25,000 ) but when I press enter, nothing happens. When I do this with our sun, it reacts immediately.

I hope that makes my question a little more clear. You provided a lot of info though, I always appreciate people like you who are willing to share their knowlege. So sincerely, thank you very much for your reply!!

[vkobe]

Originally posted by boiseaquatica:

So, I am reaching out to my scientific community here!!
I am about 95% sure I have watched documentaries, Q & A segments with physists', Neil D. Tyson etc etc say, our sun cannot supernova, but lets say it had the 8+ solar masses required, itd obliterate our solar system. I am also about 75% sure I heard that if our closest neighbor were to supernova, itd spell disaster for our solar system.

I may have misunderstood, but i have set the mass to 10 times that of the sun in our solar system sim, started a nova, but it hardly effects jupiter and even the asteroids nearby,,, seems anything past mars actually survived! now, have i just been not understanding the information? would a supernova only destroy the first few planetary bodies then only become dangerous because its superheated?

i have also tried several different solar masses,,, i have started at 10 and worked my way up to 100....then 10,000 even. i just now started an open sim, set a sun and jupiter a half AU away, started a 150 solar mass supernova and jupiter only shed a few Earth's worth of atmosphere....


ALSO, anyone know why i cant start supernovae by adding mass to other stars like i can our sun??

it is only a sim, so it is not perfect

in theory some planets can survive

it is not like in the movie, need time to vaporize a planet, is mean in our world when death star shot alderaan you just need to wait some centuries before gravity start to repair alderaan like the moon after theia crash on the earth :^)

[OuijaMawl]

Originally posted by boiseaquatica:

but lets say it had the 8+ solar masses required, itd obliterate our solar system. I am also about 75% sure I heard that if our closest neighbor were to supernova, itd spell disaster for our solar system.

The question is what is this mass made up of? Just adding mass doesn't mean much if it contains lots of hydrogen, it will just be a big yellow star with 8 solar masses, where as if that mass was made up of heavier elements like a star at the end of its life sure it might be enough to cause a supernova and more problems for the outer planets I'm not totally sure it would completely obliterate them either. Most of the damage would be imparted by the initial shockwave as it would take some time before enough heating occured from the expanding gas clouds to cause the planet to shed its atomsphere. The shockwave would also push the planets to considerable speeds away from the origin of the explosion so its possible that a planet would escape the clouds of expanding hot gasses at some point and survive as a rogue planet.

Stars exist with upward of 50+ solar masses in our current universe and some have existed with 100+ solar masses in the early universe. The life span shortens with more solar masses as more heat will be generated which would in turn drive more elements to fuse faster. Perhaps something of 10,000 masses would still survive a while before exlopding though such a star would probably extend to the limits of our solar system in size some 30 AUs or more. Most of those very massive stars do not have systems around them as they tend to pull in all the surrounding materal into the star. An explosion from such a star would probably generate a shockwave that would obliterate most everything nearby, not sure about its potential to cause disaster at distances measured in light years, its still possible though.

Of course this is just a game in the alpha phase of development and you cannot actually expect things to be work exactly like you expect just yet. I don't think supernova have really been given much work yet, only one type has been implemented and its one of the more rare types of nova not your more common varieties. They have also been working on improving the physics of the game as well which might help with how supernova react with the planets in the game.

[boiseaquatica]

Originally posted by vkobe:

Originally posted by boiseaquatica:

So, I am reaching out to my scientific community here!!
I am about 95% sure I have watched documentaries, Q & A segments with physists', Neil D. Tyson etc etc say, our sun cannot supernova, but lets say it had the 8+ solar masses required, itd obliterate our solar system. I am also about 75% sure I heard that if our closest neighbor were to supernova, itd spell disaster for our solar system.

I may have misunderstood, but i have set the mass to 10 times that of the sun in our solar system sim, started a nova, but it hardly effects jupiter and even the asteroids nearby,,, seems anything past mars actually survived! now, have i just been not understanding the information? would a supernova only destroy the first few planetary bodies then only become dangerous because its superheated?

i have also tried several different solar masses,,, i have started at 10 and worked my way up to 100....then 10,000 even. i just now started an open sim, set a sun and jupiter a half AU away, started a 150 solar mass supernova and jupiter only shed a few Earth's worth of atmosphere....


ALSO, anyone know why i cant start supernovae by adding mass to other stars like i can our sun??

it is only a sim, so it is not perfect

in theory some planets can survive

it is not like in the movie, need time to vaporize a planet, is mean in our world when death star shot alderaan you just need to wait some centuries before gravity start to repair alderaan like the moon after theia crash on the earth :^)

Okay...so I am aware that it is only a sim and that its not perfect. I am asking if it can, or cannot do something in the sim... I am not complaining about it or saying its innacurate, i am only asking about its limitations....

In theory, some planets can survive? that is extremely vague.... which planets? What kind of supernova? that simply doesnt even address what I have asked. I did talk about planets being destroyed, but only in relation to supernova strength. Saying some can survive doesnt help at all...

Then you go on to talk about planet needing time to vaporize.. I know this already, i actually said that in my question. I also know it takes time. you say its mean in our world when the death star shot alderaan.... well yes its mean to destroy a planet with people on it, why is that relevant?? what does that being mean have to do with my question?
then you say it takes centuries for gravity to repair planets like the theia collision, what does this have to do with being able to make a supernova stronger or not? I simply do not understand what you are trying to convey or if you even read my question.....

I am asking a YES or NO question. I am trying to find out if the game can make differenrt supernovas that range in power. can i make some stronger than others?

I know the power of a supernova depends on a lot of variables IN REAL LIFE, that is why i took the time to list out all of the different things I have tried to do IN GAME so people could see what ive already tried.... then i took the time to list the results of my tries IN GAME but it seems you arent even reading my question :(

I just want to know a yes or no.... I know you guys are trying to help but if you dont understand the question dont try and answer it. I appreciate the fact youre trying to help and be nice but if you dont understand, ask for clarification first before answering.

I sincerely appreciate anyone that will take their time to share the knowldge they have about our universe and physics though!! its been proven that a passion and curiosity for such things are a sign of high intelligence! So, thank you for being willing to help...but like I said, nothing you said applied to my question :(

[Thundercracker]

short answer:

in my experience, no, supernovae do not destroy planets in US2.

if you want an instant supernova, select and star solar mass or higher, and do the "add moons" option in 'rings" under the "launch" tab.

or do a particle spray of silicon or iron, and set particle mass to something silly like a jupiter mass each. take aim and spray at anything for long enough. i took a lunar twin to a supernova that left no remnant like that.

[boiseaquatica]

Originally posted by Callipso:

Originally posted by boiseaquatica:

but lets say it had the 8+ solar masses required, itd obliterate our solar system. I am also about 75% sure I heard that if our closest neighbor were to supernova, itd spell disaster for our solar system.

The question is what is this mass made up of? Just adding mass doesn't mean much if it contains lots of hydrogen, it will just be a big yellow star with 8 solar masses, where as if that mass was made up of heavier elements like a star at the end of its life sure it might be enough to cause a supernova and more problems for the outer planets I'm not totally sure it would completely obliterate them either. Most of the damage would be imparted by the initial shockwave as it would take some time before enough heating occured from the expanding gas clouds to cause the planet to shed its atomsphere. The shockwave would also push the planets to considerable speeds away from the origin of the explosion so its possible that a planet would escape the clouds of expanding hot gasses at some point and survive as a rogue planet.

Stars exist with upward of 50+ solar masses in our current universe and some have existed with 100+ solar masses in the early universe. The life span shortens with more solar masses as more heat will be generated which would in turn drive more elements to fuse faster. Perhaps something of 10,000 masses would still survive a while before exlopding though such a star would probably extend to the limits of our solar system in size some 30 AUs or more. Most of those very massive stars do not have systems around them as they tend to pull in all the surrounding materal into the star. An explosion from such a star would probably generate a shockwave that would obliterate most everything nearby, not sure about its potential to cause disaster at distances measured in light years, its still possible though.

Of course this is just a game in the alpha phase of development and you cannot actually expect things to be work exactly like you expect just yet. I don't think supernova have really been given much work yet, only one type has been implemented and its one of the more rare types of nova not your more common varieties. They have also been working on improving the physics of the game as well which might help with how supernova react with the planets in the game.

Ahhh!! okay. so there is only one type of supernova in game then? Thats what I figured but I wanted to be sure.... I tried making other stars nova and tried different types but all seemed to cause the exact same amount of destruction. Well, shoot!! Thank you so so much for taking time out of your day to help a stranger out though! I really appreciate it when people are willing to share the knowledge theyve accumulated to help others learn,,, thats how we advance as a civilization. So, thank you so much for coming back and clarifying!! :)

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by boiseaquatica:

Ahhh!! okay. so there is only one type of supernova in game then? Thats what I figured but I wanted to be sure.... I tried making other stars nova and tried different types but all seemed to cause the exact same amount of destruction. Well, shoot!! Thank you so so much for taking time out of your day to help a stranger out though! I really appreciate it when people are willing to share the knowledge theyve accumulated to help others learn,,, thats how we advance as a civilization. So, thank you so much for coming back and clarifying!! :)

of note, while the explosion itself is the same, what is left afterwards is not. you can have a neutron star or other "nova remnant," a black hole, or even nothing at all (which was the most common result in my early protoplantary disk setups)

[boiseaquatica]

Originally posted by Tarn:

short answer:

in my experience, no, supernovae do not destroy planets in US2.

if you want an instant supernova, select and star solar mass or higher, and do the "add moons" option in 'rings" under the "launch" tab.

or do a particle spray of silicon or iron, and set particle mass to something silly like a jupiter mass each. take aim and spray at anything for long enough. i took a lunar twin to a supernova that left no remnant like that.

Oh, well I actually already got planets to vaporize in our solar system.. in my question I was saying how I set the solar mass of our sun to 50 and more and created a supernova, my question actually was about trying to make a supernova stronger. Thank you for answering but you seemed to misunderstand as everything you provided was actually already in my 2 posts. :(

In our solar system i would create a supernova by setting our solar mass to 50, the supernova would vaporize planets up to mars, after that, minimal damage.

I tried again, but i set the solar mass to 15,000 and got the exact same result.

I tried many times changing different variables but always seemed to get the same result from the supernova.


See what I mean? I wasnt asking how or why....I am asking if in this game i can make supernova stronger is all.

Thank you though, for stopping in to help out :) I appreciate you being willing to take the time and share knowlege with us :) Seriously, I wish more people were willing to help teach others.

[vkobe]

Originally posted by boiseaquatica:

Originally posted by vkobe:

it is only a sim, so it is not perfect

in theory some planets can survive

it is not like in the movie, need time to vaporize a planet, is mean in our world when death star shot alderaan you just need to wait some centuries before gravity start to repair alderaan like the moon after theia crash on the earth :^)

Okay...so I am aware that it is only a sim and that its not perfect. I am asking if it can, or cannot do something in the sim... I am not complaining about it or saying its innacurate, i am only asking about its limitations....

In theory, some planets can survive? that is extremely vague.... which planets? What kind of supernova? that simply doesnt even address what I have asked. I did talk about planets being destroyed, but only in relation to supernova strength. Saying some can survive doesnt help at all...

Then you go on to talk about planet needing time to vaporize.. I know this already, i actually said that in my question. I also know it takes time. you say its mean in our world when the death star shot alderaan.... well yes its mean to destroy a planet with people on it, why is that relevant?? what does that being mean have to do with my question?
then you say it takes centuries for gravity to repair planets like the theia collision, what does this have to do with being able to make a supernova stronger or not? I simply do not understand what you are trying to convey or if you even read my question.....

I am asking a YES or NO question. I am trying to find out if the game can make differenrt supernovas that range in power. can i make some stronger than others?

I know the power of a supernova depends on a lot of variables IN REAL LIFE, that is why i took the time to list out all of the different things I have tried to do IN GAME so people could see what ive already tried.... then i took the time to list the results of my tries IN GAME but it seems you arent even reading my question :(

I just want to know a yes or no.... I know you guys are trying to help but if you dont understand the question dont try and answer it. I appreciate the fact youre trying to help and be nice but if you dont understand, ask for clarification first before answering.

I sincerely appreciate anyone that will take their time to share the knowldge they have about our universe and physics though!! its been proven that a passion and curiosity for such things are a sign of high intelligence! So, thank you for being willing to help...but like I said, nothing you said applied to my question :(

i already answer you, it is a sim and planet need time to vaporized and and few planets can survive

i dont know how you conclud than all planets should be oblitared in a supernova, especially for jupiter that is too far and too massive and if you see your sim, you see some planets are ejected, so we are not sure than even the earth or mercury or venus will be dissapeared

it is like ice you put in hot water or hot air with wind, need time to melt

sorry if you dislike my answer, but your questions is not so accurate, so i answer to your innacurate questions

and the blame is on you to no ask accurency questions, instead to blame me to no ask you clarification

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by vkobe:

and the blame is on you to no ask accurency questions, instead to blame me to no ask you clarification

not to get too far off-topic, but this line instantly made me peg the user as a french speaker. looking at the profile, quebec ;D

to the OP, i had a thought i havent managed to test yet, perhaps the explosions are tied in to the temperature of the object pre-ignition. perhaps if your star is much hotter, when you explode it thst temperature would transfer further.

i could be wrong, but for some reason it seemed like it fit the simultion, after playing with a star's temperature.