There's... no online multiplayer??

[Luke]

I feel like I've been waiting for N online multiplayer for ages ever since N+ on the Xbox 360 (which was an absolutle blast). It is seriously some of the most fun I've ever had playing an online game.

Now it's finally coming to Steam, but without online multiplayer?

This was undoubtedly what I was most looking forward to -- playing levels with my friends. Now I have virtually zero interest in the game.

Come on guys. It's 2016... It's already been done... This should be a part of N++. I want to be able to share these experiences with my friends: laugh when we get hit by the robots or accidentally jump on a mine. And similarily, share in the triumph from beating an extremely difficult level together.

Online multiplayer is just too perfect for this kind of game. I have a hard time swallowing the "lag" pill seeing as how many other games out there exist which require quick reflexes (CS:GO and any other shooter comes to mind). Besides, it's already been done on the 360... Surely it can be done again on PC.

This game deserves online multiplayer.

[ChipMood]

agreed!

[atomizer]

First things first, they were on tight budget, so online was obviously costly and the first thing to get cut.
And lag compensation is the key factor still. When in a game there are specific key events, you can interpolate positions of players and noone will notice anything (unless someone has very high ping). From your example, in CS, there are key events - shots being fired. Server knows pings of all players, records all positions in a buffer and rewinds time to see how everyone was positioned when the shot was fired to determine hit or miss. That is the one situation where there could be serious problems if the outcome would be not determined correctly.
In N, if you apply same interpolation, it can cause you to see other player(s) hitting enemies/mines/etc while they actually dodged the threat. Further, when an enemy reacts to another player, no amount of interpolation can help your game to know about it until the roundtrip is complete, which will result in teleporting drones, missiles, etc.
I'm not saying that I'm against online play, I'm just trying to explain the metanet's reasoning behind not including online in N++. In my opinion, at least LAN play should be in the game.

[e.bkapalka]

Like the person above said, it's not very feasible. It's not that Metanet hates you or that they weren't listening to your prayers, it's just that they can't (right now with the resources they have). Here's a similar case[www.polygon.com]

[JacobMIX]

I don't see the big problem with lag in a co-op platformer
Games like Bloody Trapland, and Boshy works fine.
You don't really get in each others way.
(Tho in Bloody Trapland you can jump on, and kill someone)
What will lag do in N++? I can't really think of much that some lag would make hinder players.
But what do i know. I'm no real dev.
I'm sure there's no way the N++ team can make PC multiplayer work as it stands right now...
We gotta wait for N- for that feature!

Srsly tho. I understand multiplayer can be difficult to do. But there are ways to make it work.
I just hope one day i'll be able to ninja around with friends in N. (On PC :P)

[Gunnerman007]

Originally posted by atomizer:

First things first, they were on tight budget, so online was obviously costly and the first thing to get cut.
And lag compensation is the key factor still. When in a game there are specific key events, you can interpolate positions of players and noone will notice anything (unless someone has very high ping). From your example, in CS, there are key events - shots being fired. Server knows pings of all players, records all positions in a buffer and rewinds time to see how everyone was positioned when the shot was fired to determine hit or miss. That is the one situation where there could be serious problems if the outcome would be not determined correctly.
In N, if you apply same interpolation, it can cause you to see other player(s) hitting enemies/mines/etc while they actually dodged the threat. Further, when an enemy reacts to another player, no amount of interpolation can help your game to know about it until the roundtrip is complete, which will result in teleporting drones, missiles, etc.
I'm not saying that I'm against online play, I'm just trying to explain the metanet's reasoning behind not including online in N++. In my opinion, at least LAN play should be in the game.

This. Possibly, they could use the money from the Steam purchases to include a extensive patch to have MP added in but I doubt modifying code for that would be as simple as 123 or even remotely possible. Of course, that will just add game replay ability as I am sure it will stocked with 100+ levels and all kids of N++ greatness!

[Luke]

It is what it is. But, I don't buy the lag argument. Look at Super Smash Bros. It is arguably one of the most demanding games in terms of input precision and timing. However, it has an online mode, which, is quite a bit of fun.

Again look at games like Street Fighter. Actually, this game is likely even more demanding than SSB. It has online play.

CS:GO is a game which demands precise aiming and timing with very fast-moving objects.

Honestly, compared to the above examples N seems fairly tame. You've got some mines floating around and some relatively slowly-moving robots; some of which can fire bullets or lasers or rockets at you.

And yes, N does require precision and timing. But so do these other games.

Furthermore, we already know that multiplayer with N can work -- we've seen it with N+. As I mentioned it was some of the most fun I've had with an online game. The co-op was amazing.

So I'm not buying the lag argument. I think that's a poor argument and not very well-grounded. It can work, it has worked.

Now if the devs simply haven't prioritized it because, well, it's not a priority to them, that's one thing. And I don't discount the fact that making it work well might be challenging. But as I said we have already seen it done with N+. You guys make it sound like it's impossible for N. What the heck makes N so special or so difficult to implement online multiplayer? I can think of several examples of other online games in which events take place much more quickly and require even less reaction time than N.

[Middy]

Originally posted by Lucas 117:

Look at Super Smash Bros. It is arguably one of the most demanding games in terms of input precision and timing. However, it has an online mode, which, is quite a bit of fun.

And frequently suffers from horrible lag for many players.

[ChipMood]

whats with N+? it had a online mode too and was fun too

[Luke]

Originally posted by Hat:

whats with N+? it had a online mode too and was fun too

No, don't you get it? The terrible horrible lag doesn't allow you to have fun playing a platformer such as N over the internet

/sarcasm

[ChipMood]

Originally posted by Lucas 117:

Originally posted by Hat:

whats with N+? it had a online mode too and was fun too

No, don't you get it? The terrible horrible lag doesn't allow you to have fun playing a platformer such as N over the internet

/sarcasm

i guess ur right. i should sit in my corner and cry.

[地瓜]

agreed it!

[Lo-fi Longcat]

Originally posted by atomizer:

In N, if you apply same interpolation, it can cause you to see other player(s) hitting enemies/mines/etc while they actually dodged the threat.

n+ on xbox literally did this all the time and people aren't complaining, they're saying they want it back, even

[e.bkapalka]

Originally posted by Lo-fi Longcat:

Originally posted by atomizer:

In N, if you apply same interpolation, it can cause you to see other player(s) hitting enemies/mines/etc while they actually dodged the threat.

n+ on xbox literally did this all the time and people aren't complaining, they're saying they want it back, even

A lot of people were complaining

[Metanet Software]

hey,
See this thread for a previous response of ours: https://www.reddit.com/r/nplusplus/comments/476fjw/ive_posted_on_the_steam_boards_and_i_wanted_to/d0do8rb

About Bloody Trapland specifically: AFAICT it doesn't have any way for players to interact, so they can all simulate locally and the results will be the same for everyone. In N++ there are enemies (like homing rockets or toggle mines) which depend on player positions -- this means the networking problem is much more complex since the players need to rely on outside information (each others' positions -- which may be late or missing).

We had a very limited budget and decided to invest it in global cross-platform level sharing -- something we judged would have more long-term value for the community than networked multiplayer, due to the popularity of this feature in N and all the feedback we've received over the years.

We feel bad that many N+ fans are disappointed, but we had to make a hard decision (given our constraints -- it's already taken us 4 years to get to this point, we simply couldn't afford to take another 1+ years, both time- and money-wise, to add online multiplayer!)

We are not opposed to adding networked multiplayer, we just really couldn't make it happen. If N++ sells really well on Steam, we may be able to afford to add it in future.

In any case, we *highly* encourage people to try the local multiplayer, we put a lot of time and effort into the design of co-op and race. (IMO Race is the best mode, Solo is just sort of training for it).

Sorry! Hope that clears things up.
p.s - rocket-murdering is also way more interesting when everyone's within shoulder-punching distance ;)

[Luke]

Launch a Kickstarter or something and see if you can get funded to bring multiplayer to N++ to make it the truly penultimate version of N