How can I make a better cleric

[Mystic Exarch]

I've been playing this game with a buddy of mine. We've been having trouble getting past enemies that are even our own level. The problem is that my characters don't seem to pull their own wieght.

My friend is a ranger (which is think is the best class, hands down) and he kicks ass because he crafts badass arrows of all kinds for super cheap and can own large groups of enemies with them. His other guy is Jahan, who rocks because he can get enemies wet, freeze, and make water puddles. It seems like interacting with the envioirment for CC (i.e. electrocuting water) is the way to win battles.

Meanwhile, my PC is cleric. First of all, it was a bad pick because the only buff spell I have ever seen (inspire) is man-at-arms. Same goes for healing. The amount healed by minor heal is so small that it is negligible. Cure wounds is an actual healing spell, and the cleric doesn't even start with it! In fact, since it's a man-at-arms spell, I would have been better off healing as a warrior. I'm not even sure why the cleric has water magic, it doesn't make sense. I could've just rolled a warrior and been able to buff/heal equally well while having higher points in weapons and armor.

Secondly, healing/buffs seems to be ridiculously weak. It takes a year and a half for my cure wounds to come back, during which time I (or whoever needs to be healed) gets killed. The one single buff spell in the game that I have so far, inspire, wears off after 2 rounds. 2 rounds! How is that even usable? The answer: it's not. From what I can tell, it doesn't make a difference.

My dilema is that I didn't realize this until too late. I really don't want to load a new game with a different class because we're level 7 and have made tons of progress. I just want to make the best out of a bad situation.

Is there anything I can do? Start over with a new class? Use different spells? Use a different build (if so, keep in mind I need to tank because my buddy is a ranger and sometimes Madora gets CC'd.)

[PocketYoda]

I chose wayfarer and Shadowblade its kinda a rough start for me too, i think wayfarer was a better choice than Cleric though because its a bit like a Druid, healing, pets and ranged is a nice bonus.

My Shadowblade on the other hand kinda sucks, i think i should have picked rogue Shadowblade seems to much a jack of all trades master of none... which at low levels means bad at everything..

I've read later you can respec your classes..

[TrueCooperAtion]

i am playing a cleric right now and i find it is good to give your cleric hydro magic skills... hydro or water magic is the most common healing magic. I play my cleric as the tank who agros damage and heals team mates... a good talent to give him in the begining is leach as it will make him heal a bit whenever he is in blood... even if it is his own blood from being hit with an arrow.

[eidolon232]

There are some insane buffs available, just look at stuff like Oath of Destruction (Witchcraft 1) that gives +50% dmg for 3 turns fur 3 AP, Bless +30% chance to hit for 3 turns and 3 AP or the elemental shields (level 3 spells).

You can respec your char after finishing the first map.

[Horoai]

Hmm.

Well first of all you can respec your character later on in the game and since gold comes usually plentiful you shouldn't have any trouble to just buy different spell books.

Secondly I'll have to disagree that archer is the strongest build but it doesn't really matter now anyway. You should play what you like to play. This game is no competetion - it's a roleplaying game and everything is fine as long as you manage to progress through the story.
In fact, I'd say it's more interesting to play this game with a potentially weaker group to make the combat even more challenging and alternatives like sneaking or talking your way out of fights even more desirable.

And finally regarding Hydrosophist you didn't choose the wrong ability. Minor Heal has always sufficed for me, but I always have int as main stat for my healer. Actually it overheals most of the time so I have no idea what you might do wrong O.o. Anyway, there are 2 more heal spells: a stronger version of Minor heal and a direct heal like cure wounds but with 15m range.

If you want more buffs to support your group instead of attacking with ice magic or clubs then you should learn Geomancy (only level 1 - 2) and Witchcraft as well. As a Geomancer you can summon more than just another elemental, bless your friend's hit chance and fortify your party's armor. Additionally Witchcraft offers a set of extremely potent damage buffs and debuffs that can effectively double the damage of your archer friend and nearly disable every enemy. Plus Resurrect is a Witchcraft spell.

I don't know what plan you had in mind when creating your cleric but I suggest you piece your abilities together depending on what spells you'd like to use. The game is built that way and it doesn't actually cost you anything (1 - 3 skill points are nothing really) to tap into geomancy just to grab it's buffs and control spells.

My brother and I have played this game several times now and I think we would never play again without a tank / support mage hybrid to cover our ass and wipe it.

[Mystic Exarch]

Originally posted by TrueCooperAtion:

i am playing a cleric right now and i find it is good to give your cleric hydro magic skills... hydro or water magic is the most common healing magic. I play my cleric as the tank who agros damage and heals team mates... a good talent to give him in the begining is leach as it will make him heal a bit whenever he is in blood... even if it is his own blood from being hit with an arrow.

So, you're saying I'll get better water healing later? Also, that makes sense about the leech skill.

Originally posted by eidolon232:

There are some insane buffs available, just look at stuff like Oath of Destruction (Witchcraft 1) that gives +50% dmg for 3 turns fur 3 AP, Bless +30% chance to hit for 3 turns and 3 AP or the elemental shields (level 3 spells).

You can respec your char after finishing the first map.

What skill does Bless and Elemental Shield fall under? Clerics are water and man-at-arms, so if they're not from one of those then I really can't use them. I mean, I could put one point in a skill just for one spell. However, wouldn't spreading myself out to too many skills make me weak? You need high ranks to boost your spell's effectiveness, right? Going for multiple skills all with rank 1 would make me even weaker, correct?

[eidolon232]

The game is classless, so you can just pick up spells from whatever class you like, including the self teleport spell from Scoundrel/Marksman.
Bless is a Witchcraft spell. There are 4 different elemental schields, 1 for each school of magic.

A high rank in water magic only means that you get a AP penalty for using high level water spells. The cost of leveling skills increases (1 for level 1,2 for level 2, 3 for level 3,...). So for example instead of making a char a Water + Air expert, you could just leave those at level 4 and use the saved ability points to bring another school at level 4 as well / bring 2 schools to level 3 for only 2 extra points.

There is a list of all skills in the guide section.

[Mystic Exarch]

Yggdrasil, thanks for the in-depth answer.

So if Geomancer and Witchcraft provide ressurection/buffs, why in God's name did the developers start clerics with rank 1 in man-at-arms? From everything you've said, a true cleric should start with witchraft, geomancer, and water skills all at 1. It seems completely backwards not to start clerics with skills that allow them to cast buffs and heals. The developers must have some crazy interpretation of what a cleric is.

From what it sounds like, a Witch (since they start with geomancer and witchraft) are the *actual* clerics and "clerics" are really just a water mage with some ability to punch things.

I was pumping points into strength and constitution (strength to increase man-at-arms effectiveness because I thought it was healing) and CON because he's a tank. When really, I probably should have been pumping INT.

For the record, I *do* want to play a cleric, (well, what the real cleric is). I don't have a certain playstyle. I've played enough RPG's to be able to run any class and have fun.

I'll have to pray I'm able to reach whatever point it is that you get respec at. I think I know what I need to do (pick up geomancer and witchraft). Thanks again for your indepth explanation.

[Mystic Exarch]

Originally posted by eidolon232:

The game is classless, so you can just pick up spells from whatever class you like, including the self teleport spell from Scoundrel/Marksman.
Bless is a Witchcraft spell. There are 4 different elemental schields, 1 for each school of magic.

A high rank in water magic only means that you get a AP penalty for using high level water spells. The cost of leveling skills increases (1 for level 1,2 for level 2, 3 for level 3,...). So for example instead of making a char a Water + Air expert, you could just leave those at level 4 and use the saved ability points to bring another school at level 4 as well / bring 2 schools to level 3 for only 2 extra points.

There is a list of all skills in the guide section.

Doesn't it seem a little silly that "Bless" is in the "WITCHcraft" school? Bless = holy, withcraft = unholy. Just saying.

[Horoai]

You're welcome. The thing about Cleric is that this class is supposed to be a Heal&Support magic + Melee hybrid with a religious background. Clerics are not Priests, because they're supposed to fight in the front lines with some mace type weapon and a shield inbetween heals / prayers / buffs.
On the other hand, if you only invest in Geomancy, Hydrosophist and Witchcraft you will get yourself a priest (or whatever, depending on your spell choice) - well a pure mage with no armor, shield and melee skills whatsoever.

After all, there is no devine magic in this game so starting a cleric as some melee type character (man-at-arms) with basic heal spells (Hydrophist) comes close enough imo. It's up to you where to go from here and it sounds like you've pushed the melee side of this class too much and it's no surprise your spells suck now. I'm sure this won't happen to you again but don't be afraid to give cleric another shot please.

PS: Blessing is a Geomancer spell.

[Mystic Exarch]

Originally posted by Yggdrasil:

You're welcome. The thing about Cleric is that this class is supposed to be a Heal&Support magic + melee hybrid with a religious background. Clerics are not Priests, because they're supposed to fight in the front lines with some mace type weapon and a shield inbetween heals / prayers / buffs.
Well there is no devine magic in this game so starting a cleric as some melee type character (man-at-arms) with basic heal spells (Hydrophist) comes close enough imo. It's up to you where to go from here and it sounds like you've pushed the melee side of this class too much and it's no surprise your spells suck now. I'm sure this won't happen to you again but don't be afraid to give cleric another shot please.

PS: Blessing is a Geomancer spell.

I haven't pushed the melee side, as you say. I put points in it because, from my point of view, man-at-arms had the only good healing spell (cure wounds.) Strength makes man-at-arms better, so it was the only logical decision.

How was I supposed to know? I haven't tried a character that starts with Geomancer or Witchraft yet. This game does a poor job explaining what each class does and what each school does. I feel like and in-depth explanation of the lore of the entire magic system (and what schools of magic do what, with a few example spells) is required on the character creation screen. It's strange for developers to create a fantasy setting that not only is new to people, but is also radically different from most traditional settings, and expect players to know what they know about the world they themselves created with perfect clarity.

It sounds like you know a lot about the lore of the world, and to be honest, I'm impressed, but not surprised since you've beaten it multiple times. When does all this lore come into play? I've tried to find it, to no avail. I'm sure this world is vibrant and interesting, and I'd love to learn more, but I'm getting frustrated.

[eidolon232]

Sorry, I meant to say Bless is a Geomancer spell, that was just a copy paste error.

[Grungi]

I run a Cleric in my main party, he's basically a 1H/Shield Man At Arms with 9 INT and R2 Geomancer/Witchcraft (for buffs) and R4 Hydrosophist (for all the heals). He doesn't have anywhere near the damage output of the other classes, but his ability to use support spells and his incredible tankiness make him an excellent front-line leader.

His slowing/knockdown abilities are also very handy for setting up enemies to take increased damage from my Bully Ranger/Knight.

[feralgal]

Originally posted by Icingdeath227:

I haven't pushed the melee side, as you say. I put points in it because, from my point of view, man-at-arms had the only good healing spell (cure wounds.) Strength makes man-at-arms better, so it was the only logical decision.

How was I supposed to know? I haven't tried a character that starts with Geomancer or Witchraft yet. This game does a poor job explaining what each class does and what each school does. I feel like and in-depth explanation of the lore of the entire magic system (and what schools of magic do what, with a few example spells) is required on the character creation screen. It's strange for developers to create a fantasy setting that not only is new to people, but is also radically different from most traditional settings, and expect players to know what they know about the world they themselves created with perfect clarity.

It sounds like you know a lot about the lore of the world, and to be honest, I'm impressed, but not surprised since you've beaten it multiple times. When does all this lore come into play? I've tried to find it, to no avail. I'm sure this world is vibrant and interesting, and I'd love to learn more, but I'm getting frustrated.

I don't know nearly as much about the game as Yggdrasl but I play with two mages as my main characters and sometimes take Jahan with me. There are bracers later in the game that give you the Cure Wounds skill so I've used both Cure Wounds and Minor Heal. While Cure Wounds can be a lifesaver (literally), I find Minor Heal much more important. In my game at least, usually whoever needs to heal can drink healing potions anyway. They're cheap (you'll probably have so much cash by the time you leave Cyseal that you won't know what to do with it) and plentiful. Many of the random people that I've talked to seem to have them. And unless you need an instant cure, minor heal is pretty powerful and has low AP to use. Restore (a water spell) is even stronger. The main problems with Cure Wounds IMO are that the cooldown is very long and you have to be very near the person you're using it on. Minor Heal doesn't have those drawbacks. (Note that I have mages so their intelligence is higher than their strength, although I haven't increased their intelligence much since character creation to try to make combat more challenging and I started one of them as a custom battle mage with equal strength and intelligence.) You don't need your intelligence to be that high to use Minor Heal effectively and there are bracers, armor, amulets, etc. that can be used to buff your attributes.

I agree that the magic spells -and other skills - should be explained better. I went to the Divinity wiki to look at the spells and skills before I created my character. I also check it before learning a new spell or skill, although some of the things can be figured out in game (e.g., look at the info on the books that the vendors sell, pay attention during battles to see what tactics might work and try to decide if a given skill/spell would help you with hard battles by giving you more options, pay attention to the AP costs and range of skills/spells, etc.)

[Horoai]

Actually there are no classes but only presets. One of them (Cleric) is a traditional archetype of a class from traditional RPGs and you'd pick this preset if you want to play a cleric and already know what a cleric should be able to do but don't know how to create one.

However, the game doesn't hold your hand and push or force you into a certain class. It gives you the freedom to not only decide what abilities you want to combine and how much of each but also to DISCOVER what they can do.
You can search for spells that match your vision of a cleric on your own as you play and level up without anyone telling you what is right or wrong.

I found every piece of information about each magic school by browsing the spell book merchants (as soon as I discovered their locations), watching enemies who play the respective presets in action and trying out new things. Unlike most other modern RPG this wasn't a dull, selfexplanatory experience with little surprises and I wasn't forced to constantly reroll my character or pick another class just to keep experimenting.

You're not expected to know everything with perfect clarity right away so you shouldn't expect them to hold your hand and explain everything right away. It takes the fun away.

Edit: I don't know much about the lore because this is the first Divinity title I've played. You should make sure to complete and find as many side quests as possible and read every book, parchment or note that you find.
It seems like a lot of your own character's background story is told as you develop your homestead (find more star stones). Also, try to talk to as many npc as possible. Even miners or sailors might know a bit more or sell something decent (like a rare crafting ingredient) by chance.

[Mystic Exarch]

Originally posted by feralgal:

Originally posted by Icingdeath227:

I haven't pushed the melee side, as you say. I put points in it because, from my point of view, man-at-arms had the only good healing spell (cure wounds.) Strength makes man-at-arms better, so it was the only logical decision.

How was I supposed to know? I haven't tried a character that starts with Geomancer or Witchraft yet. This game does a poor job explaining what each class does and what each school does. I feel like and in-depth explanation of the lore of the entire magic system (and what schools of magic do what, with a few example spells) is required on the character creation screen. It's strange for developers to create a fantasy setting that not only is new to people, but is also radically different from most traditional settings, and expect players to know what they know about the world they themselves created with perfect clarity.

It sounds like you know a lot about the lore of the world, and to be honest, I'm impressed, but not surprised since you've beaten it multiple times. When does all this lore come into play? I've tried to find it, to no avail. I'm sure this world is vibrant and interesting, and I'd love to learn more, but I'm getting frustrated.

I don't know nearly as much about the game as Yggdrasl but I play with two mages as my main characters and sometimes take Jahan with me. There are bracers later in the game that give you the Cure Wounds skill so I've used both Cure Wounds and Minor Heal. While Cure Wounds can be a lifesaver (literally), I find Minor Heal much more important. In my game at least, usually whoever needs to heal can drink healing potions anyway. They're cheap (you'll probably have so much cash by the time you leave Cyseal that you won't know what to do with it) and plentiful. Many of the random people that I've talked to seem to have them. And unless you need an instant cure, minor heal is pretty powerful and has low AP to use. Restore (a water spell) is even stronger. The main problems with Cure Wounds IMO are that the cooldown is very long and you have to be very near the person you're using it on. Minor Heal doesn't have those drawbacks. (Note that I have mages so their intelligence is higher than their strength, although I haven't increased their intelligence much since character creation to try to make combat more challenging and I started one of them as a custom battle mage with equal strength and intelligence.) You don't need your intelligence to be that high to use Minor Heal effectively and there are bracers, armor, amulets, etc. that can be used to buff your attributes.

I agree that the magic spells -and other skills - should be explained better. I went to the Divinity wiki to look at the spells and skills before I created my character. I also check it before learning a new spell or skill, although some of the things can be figured out in game (e.g., look at the info on the books that the vendors sell, pay attention during battles to see what tactics might work and try to decide if a given skill/spell would help you with hard battles by giving you more options, pay attention to the AP costs and range of skills/spells, etc.)

I considered just looking for the info online, but I sort of felt it would be cheating. I wish I had done it now, though. It seems like using a wiki and/or asking pros for information is the only way to make sure you get the character you wanted, that you will actually enjoy playing.

I mean for example, if I had used the wiki, I would have realized that a witch was what I wanted.