Am I the only one disturbed by the pentagrams?

[Zeemo]

So, hear me out.

I've been looking forward to this game for a long time, and now that it's released, I'm loving it. But the pentagrams and Ram heads in the sanctuary make me really uncomfortable.

Couldn't they maybe switch it out with any other symbol and statues? Because they are actively trying to cater to the entire gaming community, which a bunch of are Christians. And I know not all Christians feel this way, but I don't want to feel like never making a certain room just because the symbols make me uncomfortable. I just don't like sacrificing creatures to a pentagram, even in a game. It doesn't feel right to be a Christian and be indulging in virtual satanistic rituals. (For those that don't know the ram head is a symbol representing Satan)

It just sometimes bothers me how gaming companies wouldn't dare put something into a game that would offend the Muslim faith or something like that, but don't care about the Christian gamers out there.

I'm not saying anyone else should stop playing because of this, not at all! It's just my opinion and I don't like those symbols in a game I love.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Nasher:

OP should go and play Doom :D

or play Grim Dawn and the Occultist class.

[Evifire]

The comments are what I suspected they would be.

[Rhudda]

Originally posted by NemesisZidar:

Someone who doesnt understand globalization and media. Its about widespread. Yeah Levi said it means a evil thing. Btw you are wrong, the origin of it being evil didnt start in the mid 19 century. Only the different use started back then, the interpretation of it being evil started later based on that use. But thats far from being popular. I think you should rethink popularity. Something is spreading much faster with a better accessability to media, which started in the 20. century. It became popular as a demonic symbol later during the mid 20. century, the 60s, 70s and 80s, also the 90 with the wicca. And your theory of just picking up what people already know as it is not really true.
You should know the difference between trendsetting and trendusing first before creating such arguments. Hollywood movies back then were trendsetters.
Besides that it seems to prove you simply wrong with already being popular evil when considering that churches being built end 19. century used the pentagram as a symbol, also flags like the one of morocco (1915) use it, which would be weird because it has in its history a pretty dramatic influence of spain and france. You know, those being heavily christian, with inquisition and somesuch.

Ugh. Firstly, you can't both claim the origin of the evil interpretation of the symbol lies in the 20th century and agree that Levi said it. And no, that people nowadays conflate the main two ways you can turn a pentagram isn't an excuse for this. The origin of it being seen as evil are very clearly the middle of the 19th century. The same goes for the churches. What Metal and Hollywood (the latter probably moreso) did manage was to make people forget it had a less sinister meaning.


I'm sure you have a reliable source for your claims on the spread of its popularity and, more importantly, for the denial of people knowing about it as an occult (which especially in Christian circles of the time was synonymous with evil or satanistic) and evil symbol before the middle of the 20th century.

Hollywood movies having been trendsetting doesn't mean that they didn't use known symbols. All movies, all media rely heavily on symbolism and that only works when people recognise the symbols.

The flag of Morocco is entirely Islamic in origin, with the pentagram representing the five pillars of Islam. Totally different culture, so of course it has a different meaning.

[Croftsa]

Does it really matter where it originated? Or what it meant? Afterall surely the important thing is what it means now.

Personally it means nothing. It's a waste of time and energy worrying about it.

[Viking]

this is almost as good as that one guy that wanted the Hero Doom and the Item Satanic to be removed from Dota 2. still best troll attempt ever.

[Rhudda]

Originally posted by Croftsa:

Does it really matter where it originated? Or what it meant? Afterall surely the important thing is what it means now.

Personally it means nothing. It's a waste of time and energy worrying about it.

Sorry, you're right. I'll stop now.

[Admiral Mooncup]

Honestly this comes of as troll bait , I cant believe its had a dev response.
If need be add something to disable the icons that cause offence, but do not remove them for the masses.

Its a game about controlling demons ffs.

[Rhudda]

Originally posted by Exroath:

Honestly this comes of as troll bait , I cant believe its had a dev response.
If need be add something to disable the icons that cause offence, but do not remove them for the masses.

Its a game about controlling demons ffs.

If he's a troll, he's not setting off my sensors. Sure, his concerns are unusual, but the way he responded to comments doesn't seem like he wanted to bait people into overreacting. Symbols can make people feel uncomfortable - heck, I recently flew in a plane that didn't have a row 13, which is ridiculous.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Unwerth:

Originally posted by NemesisZidar:

Someone who doesnt understand globalization and media. Its about widespread. Yeah Levi said it means a evil thing. Btw you are wrong, the origin of it being evil didnt start in the mid 19 century. Only the different use started back then, the interpretation of it being evil started later based on that use. But thats far from being popular. I think you should rethink popularity. Something is spreading much faster with a better accessability to media, which started in the 20. century. It became popular as a demonic symbol later during the mid 20. century, the 60s, 70s and 80s, also the 90 with the wicca. And your theory of just picking up what people already know as it is not really true.
You should know the difference between trendsetting and trendusing first before creating such arguments. Hollywood movies back then were trendsetters.
Besides that it seems to prove you simply wrong with already being popular evil when considering that churches being built end 19. century used the pentagram as a symbol, also flags like the one of morocco (1915) use it, which would be weird because it has in its history a pretty dramatic influence of spain and france. You know, those being heavily christian, with inquisition and somesuch.

Ugh. Firstly, you can't both claim the origin of the evil interpretation of the symbol lies in the 20th century and agree that Levi said it. And no, that people nowadays conflate the main two ways you can turn a pentagram isn't an excuse for this. The origin of it being seen as evil are very clearly the middle of the 19th century. The same goes for the churches. What Metal and Hollywood (the latter probably moreso) did manage was to make people forget it had a less sinister meaning.


I'm sure you have a reliable source for your claims on the spread of its popularity and, more importantly, for the denial of people knowing about it as an occult (which especially in Christian circles of the time was synonymous with evil or satanistic) and evil symbol before the middle of the 20th century.

Hollywood movies having been trendsetting doesn't mean that they didn't use known symbols. All movies, all media rely heavily on symbolism and that only works when people recognise the symbols.

The flag of Morocco is entirely Islamic in origin, with the pentagram representing the five pillars of Islam. Totally different culture, so of course it has a different meaning.

what hollywood basically does is digging for something, taking its origin and history put it in a different context and make this popular. Meaning they take something like ONE interpretation of the pentagram out of dozens and make a story around that. Thats making it popular.
Where and when it became an evil sign for some people (remember you talk here about one out of dozens interpretations and uses of a symbol, not a general, most used or most popular version of it) doesnt matter. Well pretty much every source i could find about it (also 3 months ago when i just did some book research and stumbled across symbols and their meanings), was that the evil use of it got popular with the evolution of several sectors and their use of it. Bands using it as a satanic symbol, groups of people with their own agenda (for example wicca) using it this way, hollywood using it this way, book authors using it this way. All of that happened mostly during the last century. Whether now one person said it is an evil occult symbol (btw only one type of drawing it was called evil, not the entire symbol) sometime mid 1800 doesnt really matter for its evolution of getting popular in that evil role. I mean, Lord of the Rings was a great book for decades but it never was that popular until it was pushed and made to a trademark. Same goes for Harry Potter or other trademarks that are immensely popular today. It existing doesnt mean its popular.

Btw Morocco has Spain and French protectorats. It being originated with mostly being an Islamic Nation today, doesnt take away its historic evolution and use. It was just an example, you can go on trying to ride on it but you already missed the point before.


In the end it doesnt matter. I mean, this wasnt the topic. We can agree that it is not a satanic symbol in its origin and still isnt really today, it was made to that and it became popular through the use of it as an evil symbol. Not because it is historical an evil symbol.

[Zeemo]

lol , just so everyone knows this wasn't a troll post. People are taking this way out of context, I said back in the first page that the issue is pretty much resolved for me. I'm sorry for those of you that I offended with my very own beliefs after I specifically stated that I'm not trying to. Please people, just respect other's beliefs, you don't have to adopt them, and then we will support yours.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Ossian Murkfluoresce:

lol , just so everyone knows this wasn't a troll post. People are taking this way out of context, I said back in the first page that the issue is pretty much resolved for me. I'm sorry for those of you that I offended with my very own beliefs after I specifically stated that I'm not trying to. Please people, just respect other's beliefs, you don't have to adopt them, and then we will support yours.

i personally dont think its a troll post. The description of "trolling" is widely overused and mostly dumb or out of context. Its a trend used by kids in this industry. It wasnt even a thing some years ago.
I only think that your request was not thought through, the whole topic wasn thought through and missed common sense, that is what bothered me.
So i would like to know (ive already read it but i couldnt find it), where has it been resolved for you? Or in which way?

[☣ Dɪʀᴛʏ Dᴀɴ ☣]

Originally posted by Ossian Murkfluoresce:

lol , just so everyone knows this wasn't a troll post. People are taking this way out of context, I said back in the first page that the issue is pretty much resolved for me. I'm sorry for those of you that I offended with my very own beliefs after I specifically stated that I'm not trying to. Please people, just respect other's beliefs, you don't have to adopt them, and then we will support yours.

Edit: I mean no ill will by this post :)

Why should people respect other people's belief's? I personally only respect someone's opinion/belief if they have solid arguments to back that opinion up.

Now the obvious answer is that if you don't appear to respect other people's opinions then your social life can't flourish, you need to be tactful in how you disagree someone to be socially accepted. However I only need to pretend to respect someone's opinion, I don't need to actually respect it.

So why should I actually respect someone's opinion when there is only a benefit in pretending to for the sake of civil discussion?

[Klingenmeister]

Originally posted by Unwerth:

Originally posted by Exroath:

Honestly this comes of as troll bait , I cant believe its had a dev response.
If need be add something to disable the icons that cause offence, but do not remove them for the masses.

Its a game about controlling demons ffs.

If he's a troll, he's not setting off my sensors. Sure, his concerns are unusual, but the way he responded to comments doesn't seem like he wanted to bait people into overreacting. Symbols can make people feel uncomfortable - heck, I recently flew in a plane that didn't have a row 13, which is ridiculous.

In the cultures of the far east it is common that numbers, that are linked to bad luck are skipped it hotel rooms, street names and other places. Even if it seems weird...the majority of the world's population believe something supernatural in some part of their life. There are only a few ones, that are 100% rational (and boring). Everyone has a part in their life, that seems "unrational". I think it is part of being human.

As this being a good topic, when I was little, I was also scared of playing dungeon keeper 2, because I felt bad playing the evil side (I was around 8 - 12 then).
Being much older now, I understand now the meaning of DK being a satiric game about generic evil dungeon lords, that only want destruction and have little or none story. DK games are not about playing the evil lord, but seeing the other side of a hidden problem in high fantasy, that the bad side has little to offer in story beside being evil.

Until today I wont play games like payday, because the role you take in the game just make me feel...uncomfortable. I know it is only a game, but it just doesnt feel right doing it.
This is not by having a silly high morale standard but just that I dont like to see, what I am doing on the game screen (+ the grafics getting more and more realistic).

By that I really can understand what @OP is saying.

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Klingenmeister:

Originally posted by Unwerth:

If he's a troll, he's not setting off my sensors. Sure, his concerns are unusual, but the way he responded to comments doesn't seem like he wanted to bait people into overreacting. Symbols can make people feel uncomfortable - heck, I recently flew in a plane that didn't have a row 13, which is ridiculous.

[...]

Until today I wont play games like payday, because the role you take in the game just make me feel...uncomfortable. I know it is only a game, but it just doesnt feel right doing it.
This is not by having a silly high morale standard but just that I dont like to see, what I am doing on the game screen (+ the grafics getting more and more realistic).

By that I really can understand what @OP is saying.

and thats fair, when you dont feel comfortable with playing it, then thats up to you and nothing to moan about or insult you in any way. But this changes when you then try to change the game to your liking and complain about the content/theme it has.

[jpwiseguy]

Here we go again...

This post is absolutely ridiculous. Are you one of those people who also listen to the metal radio station only to call them up and ask them not to play so much metal because you believe it to be satanic? In the free world we have something called "choice" and it's up to you to make the decisions, not the ones who create entertainment. If you don't like it, don't play it. It's that simple.

Have you thought about your own post at all? Asking the devs to "switch out" the pentagrams and goat skulls? Well, what about those of us who actually like them? Did you ever think of that? I like Satan. IMO, Satan is cooler than Jesus...and that's my belief. Do you respect that? I seriously doubt it.

Here's an idea: If you're so passionate about gaming, and this kind of thing bothers you so much, then maybe you should learn how to mod games to your own liking instead of asking the devs to do extra work for the small minority of people playing this game who feel pentagrams are "evil".

I do try to respect the beliefs of others, but it's really hard when people display so much ignorance and intolerance toward anything that doesn't fit neatly into their view of the world.