Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
Too much focus on the RTS elemet rather then the SIM.
They expected something else, what Dungeon Keeper were for them.
Some people expected to be able to run it on a toaster and blaim the dev's
Some people find it too fast paced.
No dedicates servers
I think that's all most common ones, why people dislike the game
And with that all said, I still think DK1 is the better looking game.
Oh and definitely this. A major complaint people have with WFTO and DK2 was the diggable walls. People want to be able to sit in their walled off fortress and fiddle with themselves until whatever time they feel like digging out. Nevermind that undiggable walls is a major balancing problem, oh no, they want to be in complete control at all times.
Anyone who has ever mapped for DK1 knows how much of a problem undiggable walls are. You're either forced to starve the player with gold so they'll dig out into open space, or you find some other contrived way of forcing a connection between the player and 'the enemy'. Otherwise the player will just lock themselves in, press the fast forward button and smash down the walls with a full army of 10's.
Seriously, the game has no real stratergy or depth when compared with DK. I don't know why people are complaining about 'undiggable walls' when you had the wall breaker spell.
Its litterally impossible to build a good efficient dungeon, and traps are totally pointless when people can bust through at any point.
Heck, the Dungeons series is a better DK clone then this.
The AI doesn't know how to use Destroy Walls. Not in Keeper95, nor in KeeperFX. There is no way for the AI keepers or hero parties to penetrate a dungeon with fortified walls, which means there is no way for the enemy to pressure the player. Makes it very hard to make maps that have even the slightest inkling of challenge without resorting to alternate methods like neutral area connections, early tunnelers or gold starvation.
The "strategy" and "depth" of DK1 is puddle deep compared to WFTO. Because there is no (legitimate) way to block enemies from entering your dungeon, every encounter is basically a stat-check. Say you dig into a twenty-four man army of level 5 barbarians (here's looking at you, Pladitz), here are your options;
Option 1: Have stronger stats and win.
Option 2: Have weaker stats and die.
And don't even try to give flak to WFTO's traps. In DK1, there are five traps and only two of them are actually useful.
Alarm - Useless for the player. Only used by mappers.
Poison - Worthless against anything above level 3.
Lightning - One of the two traps that exists.
Lava - Banned in every level because it breaks pathfinding.
Boulder - Ridiculously overpowered. 1000 gold for a boulder that will kill creatures valuing 50k or more.
Not to mention the traps give no indication to the player that they are even there (excluding boulder). You just walk onto the tile and either your imp dies or it doesn't.
Just mate, don't even get me started on DK1 being a mess of a game.
Mkay, I got quite triggered on that...
Any time to bust through... yea, sure if you just reenforce them, it takes some money to break through though. But if build a Garrison or and a Augrum Wall, then it's way harder to breach through.
Further to If you play really defencivly, you should build your dungeon like a castle with multiple rings.
An efficent Dungeon is necessery at late mid game, otherwise you fall behind by lvling, Research, Room efficency and Minion Satisfaction.
Defences are well balanced. Because if you place random defences down, and expect that it will hold the ground on their own, that would be OP.
And again, the Garrison will Buff your Defences, further to, Bombards won't tank damage, the Blade Lotus and the Rampart are doing that. If you dont use them, dont expect them to stay alive for long.
Planing your Dungeon and Defence Lines is important. Doing random stuff and expect it to work, isn't the case in WFTO indeed.
Dungeons PvP was mostly Spellcaster and Traps only. Traps were straight OP, and you couldn't go through, and spellcasters were the only onces who were able to get rid or by pass Traps.
But yea, I'm not a fan of 2-3 hour matches, were 1 big fight ends the game.
Never played DK I in PvP but DK II at least were allways the same every match, whoever did those things best, would win, no way to outbrain your opponent or caunter it.
In WFTO you have variance in late-early game and mid-game, and WFTO 2.0 will even introduce variance in openeings..
But I mainly speak from the higher competetive level of Dungeons, DK II and WFTO
Buy it off Good Old Games.
And if you get DK1, get the unofficial version of KFX off of Keeper Klan as well.
I love the new creature control method, really efficient but maybe a little too much as you can breach in enemy's dungeon, place a flag on their heart and place all your creatures at the entrance... Ball of Death (just as in Starcraft 2, you know?) rush !
Usually you spend your time building up your army, then rush to the enemy's core... And there's very little the enemy can do to stop you (he'll probably be dead already before he can block you correctly). So you get a very slow begining for an extremly fast end.
Traps are really really expensive and cost mana to maintain... The issue I have is that traps are not so strong and you can't litter your dungeon with them ! As a result, a rush strategy is very viable.
Creature wise, I'm not too fan of the Chunder which was an attempt to remake the bile demon without actually having access to DK's license.
It should have been cut all the way.
The research tree is a good idea but is totally off, you get points too fast.
I would have preferred a randomized research slowing the pacing of the game leading more to a game where you have to carefully craft your dungeon.
More construct and more sacrifice would be needed (let's see next DLC) to make some development options more viable.
Finally, my biggest grief is a useless / half chewed possession along with some clunky animations. (especially when you pick up creatures) and ceilings which could use some difference as it looks too flat for a dungeon.
You can see Magic Carpet even had terrain deformation that would later be used in DK1; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZT-S2F191I#t10m50s
Plus I don't think they ever intended DK1 to be top-down. Most of the real early footage shows it mostly in 1st-person perspective, as a sort of horde-mode shooter. Like an underground version of Magic Carpet with more demonic looking creatures. You can see those here;
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOjUYo9SC-h3XPZvgnpjzB8IdNo90rHdf
Fact is, it was a fun and cool feature allowing some strategic options.
Possession is and should have been in WFTO, it was planned since the very begining of the kickstarter. And prior to that, they were only fans working on a remake of Dungeon Keeper along with possession and all. In the end, they kinda slapped it together and because of angry fans, tried to correct it... Still is clunky.
And nobody uses possession in WFTO. Why? Because it's balanced. You can't possess an imp and sprint down a hallway claiming land. You can't possess a dragon and suddenly do 10x their normal DPS and gain super-fast EXP. You can't possess an archer and fire off a never-ending stream of homing missles at enemies outside your visible range.
Possession was only used in DK1 because it was busted AF, and there was often so little going on that you could get away with jacking off inside a creature. WFTO as a game is way too balanced and way too busy for possession to ever be useful.
Nobody use it in WFTO because it's not very well done. It has use when you can do things your creatures won't do normally. This is what makes possession fun and allow unexpected strategy.
And making mana scarce and reinforced walls breakable considerably changed WFTO from DK by making it a really fast paced STR instead of the turtling battle DK was.
Proof is, training all your creatures to level 10 is even close to useless when a bunch of level 5 can already wreck the enemy.
In DK, if you had a level 10, it was a huge step towards victory as deafeating a level 10 was really hard if you didn't have any. And it took time to get a creature from 1 to 10 (even twice for the dragon). It made rushing out of question to end in a battle of level 10 creatures.
WFTO creatures level really fast and I discovered early levels don't mean much.
Why do you say "possession would have taken a lot of time..." when it is in the game -_-
It just needs to be refined one more time.
It was always part of the kickstarter and was always planned.
The issue comes more from a time and budget management which wasn't well spent.
Doing a kickstarter isn't easy at all and thinking about how much money you'll really needs to be planned correctly following what you are promising to your backers.
This is what the devs even admitted, a budget not well spent and not very well calculated which lead to a premature 1.0
If anything, I would have cut the voice actor which was fun in DK but is really annoying in WFTO.
With more time and budget, they could have released a game which looks more like what it is today.
As the game stands today, it is fun and plays well but there are some dark areas as I mentioned above. It doesn't make it a bad game in no way but improvement are needed which we will maybe get with 2.0 and the next DLC.
I listed the most common reasons for using Possession in DK1. I literally ADMITTED that possession in DK1 is broken. That's my point. Possession adds nothing to DK1 except balancing issues, of which it creates many.
Ironically WFTO enables "turtling battles" more readily than DK1 does. In WFTO, you can bury yourself harder than you can in DK1 thanks to the number of wall strengtheners, traps and gold accumulators. In DK1, the only way you can create money out of thin air is with traps, and those traps require your creatures indefatigable attention, unlike in WFTO where you have mana that just regenerates and rituals that take seconds to arm with just a single cultist. Sure DK1 allows you to bury yourself indefinitely, but you can't actually win until you connect with the enemy, and once you've connected with the enemy, there is no way to close yourself off like in WFTO.
Depends entirely on the creature and the application.
A level 10 fly will die to a level 2 bile demon.
A level 10 Horned Reaper will die to three level 4 spiders.
A level 10 Giant/Barbarian/Orc will die to a level 2 archer.
Creatures actually have an in-depth RPG-like stat system with dexterity (accuracy), strength (damage), health, speed, luck values and more. Some creatures hardly benefit from being level 10 at all.
In default DK1, only a few levels have demon spawn enabled and dragons disabled, and Skirmish modes always have every creature enabled. So no, you don't have to train dragons twice because you will almost always be throwing demon spawn back into the portal and not wasting gold training them. Not to mention Dragons train so ludicrously fast for FREE (thanks to Possession) that wasting gold on them in the training room (and their training costs are high) is inefficient.
Time spent incorporating possession was time not spent on something else.
I agree. Richard did a good job, but he's also 'made it' professionally, making him a lot more expensive than i'm sure Bullfrog paid for him way back when. Upstarts with limited budgets should be scouting for literal whos that want their first big break into voice acting, rather than scraping every dime together to hire a pro.
With that said though, Richard Ridings was also a pretty big pull aspect for old DK1 fans. He helped market the game just by being in it.