Under Games master difficulty?

[shanaqui]

I didn't find the first level too bad on Master -- it took longer, but I was able to be strategic about it. So far all my tried and tested strategies are failing on level two, though! Any tips?

Strategies I've tried:

- get prophecy, spawn all available workers, mine my way toward the underhills as fast and selectively as possible [result: the AI claims the underhills faster than I can and I have nothing to claim them back with]
- same as above but I use Kasita or Shale and try to build up an army with beasts/sentinels at the same time so I can quickly take the underhills back [result: the AI claims all three, has tons of minions and kicks my butt]
- stay put and focus on building an army [result: the AI claims the underhills and I'm low on health before I have enough of an army to fight back with... by which time they're in my dungeon kicking my butt hard and I can't even get close to the underhills]

I usually don't have the patience for micromanaging (like slapping workers etc) so I'm hoping there's something that's compatible with that... If any of my three strategies so far are workable, I'd love ideas on how to improve, though.

[Biervampir [AUT]]

After the first level i usually spam spirit workers asap.
https://youtu.be/naC1gOkK0jU

[USBsatan]

the under games is a total joke, i regret buying it and it pissed me off so much ruining my 100% achievements that i didn't even load the game for a year.

[Biervampir [AUT]]

Originally posted by USBsatan:

the under games is a total joke, i regret buying it and it pissed me off so much ruining my 100% achievements that i didn't even load the game for a year.

I can understand that you dont like it. If you just want to get the achievement, play as kasita, place 50 sentinel shells, cast assembly twice (redo it, if needed), and stomp your opponents army.
Than place down some bombards to scare of ypur opponents workers.
Playing a bit faster than usual or slowing down gamespeed to 50% would be very adventages.

[shanaqui]

Originally posted by Biervampir AUT:

I can understand that you dont like it. If you just want to get the achievement, play as kasita, place 50 sentinel shells, cast assembly twice (redo it, if needed), and stomp your opponents army.
Than place down some bombards to scare of ypur opponents workers.
Playing a bit faster than usual or slowing down gamespeed to 50% would be very adventages.

Hmmm, I gave that a try out of curiosity on the Rockhard stage and was waaaay too slow in getting the ritual done. Draven had tons of flying minions that just repelled my sentinels by the time they were ready! Time to experiment... and maybe see if you have one of your excellent videos showing how you do it.

[Biervampir [AUT]]

I made a playthrough of Shale and Volta (had mic issues with voltas playthrough).

If you want a little speedboost slow down the gamespeed and micro manage more of your workers.
And use Shift + L Click on the unit images in the units tab to pick up 5 units with 1 click.

I usually beat all KotH levels with spirit workers, because than you are way faster and can easily claim everything around the shrines, and they can protect your shrines even when enemy units are guarding the workers of your opponent.

[Korvek]

Biervampir is correct, spirit workers are the easiest way to win in the Undergames. Crythor and I noticed how powerful they were and actually gave many of the AI build orders early spirit workers as a result. As a rule of thumb:
If the map is king of the underhill, you can win the game using nothing but spirit workers.
If the map is core shards/deathmatch, you can win just by attacking early with a strong enough army (Kasita relies on Sentinels, Shale relies on beasts + embers, Volta relies on early storm vortices, and Lamash relies on the archon + vampires in the spirit chamber).

You generally want an archive for artefacts and alchemy lab for spirit worker potions on every map. After that it is just about expanding fast, rushing sins, and outplaying the AI.

Edit: The claim that the Undergames is impossible is utter nonsense. The AI knows what it is doing and will play well but plenty of players have beaten it on master difficulty already. The highest difficulty is meant to be a challenge for the best players and that is what it is.

[Crythor]

I can only echo what Biervampier and Korvek have said. The AI plays well but it has its flaws which are easily exploitable since it isnt actually smart.

Its good at following the game plan we gave it and some Build orders are better then others and since they are picked at random (from a list for each AI type for example Kasita is a Golddigger AI and picks Build orders from the list of BOs for the GolddigerUG AIs, Shale from RavagerUG etc.) you can restart the game till you get a weak one (dont do it via restart the match button that will load the same BO from before you need to go into the campaign again select the lvl and start it this way)

Having said that. Its not needed even the best BOs for the current lvl are easily beatable both by either playing better then the AI or exploiting it here is a list of example exploits the AI cant really deal with:

1. Mass Spirit worker rush asap (take under hills fast steal all gold and claim so much territory that the AI wont be able to claim to the posts in a long time)
2. as Volta a defensive post they have to run into exploit their pathing
3. Bridges, you can sell them so they build a certain shape and AI dosent understand that and wont claim it Biervampir shows it off in one of his videos its very cheap
4. Use replacement earth combined with walled in well of souls around Underhills you can prevent them from penetrating using under miners most of the time like that as lamash. Also very cheap.

The next 2 are more tactics then exploits but could proof useful:
5. As Shale you can abuse getting only Screachers and knock the enemies all over the map
6. As Kasita gain gold fast via Spirit workers then build sentinels and use double assembly to get a huge Sentinel army very fast speed it up with slaps obey and work a lot.

[Green.Sliche]

There's even easier way to deal with any AI in UG on Master Difficulty.

Your main goal is to get enemy titan killed while let your Titan screw AI by making it waste it's entire army on a it and losing every unit or being distracted from other objectives.

If it's Shale - hoard screechers, embers and terrors. You don't need to build any other offensive room. Only huge beast den. Basically the easiest underlord to use because you get your hoard very quickly and restock fallen beasts at high speed. For levels that require you to hold Underhill - just put some bombards.

Kasita is about sentinels and traps. Build large workshop for trap parts and large vault. Get ~ 15 or 20 sentinels and Colossus. Very soon you will have an undying army which can be healed by gold endlessly thanks to Colossus converting corpses to gold and passive gold regeneration. Don't bother getting prison or other related rooms.

Volta is about putting traps alone and choking enemies. For levels where there's Underhil or Core shards, simply keep pushing by putting storm vortexes and blade lotuses. You can build 3x3 Garrisons nearby for additional defensive boost. Fortify it all with ramparts if you want. Use Eternal for breaking shards since he can easily stunlock nearby enemies and hits objects like a truck. Don't forget to heal him often. Do not try building army of chunders or augres for offense, they can't compete against troops of other 3 Underlords.

You should remember that Master Difficulty means AI reacts faster, but ain't performing smarter. Simply outplay them once and that can be more that enough to win any level out of all 7 per faction.

[Green.Sliche]

Originally posted by USBsatan:

the under games is a total joke, i regret buying it and it pissed me off so much ruining my 100% achievements that i didn't even load the game for a year.

Get a trainer and be done with it. Works with achievements. Give yourself 999 sins or w/e and win every level in few minutes.

The game isn't that hard but if you want those 100% regardless of the way or don't have time / wish to spend, do it this way.

[Green.Sliche]

I'd like to add that with recent nerf of Archon, Lamash is officially reduced to trash-tier Underlord who can not really compete early with any other of three Underlord tiers ( let alone the custom ones ). It seems the only way to be somewhat viable with it is to rush spirit imps potion on certain levels ( like the lvl3 ) or sacrifice every shambler for a vampire. Don't hesitate to block your opponent with replacement walls, you will need any extra time you can get. If you are lucky enough and get some time, you should be able to get 15+ vampire army with Archon. Do note vampires, like Archon are now extremely unreliable so it's either hit or miss army. Do not bother with reanimation potion or other stuff, also get rid of all other units but cultists and chunders ( you may need traps in some cases ) because you will quickly get 20k+ payday wage rate and you don't have good means of getting gold, only avarice.

[USBsatan]

yea i'm sure you don't unlock achievements if you hack it. the only way i won the skirmishes against the cheat AIs was to break them, keep walling off their troops till they rebelled and killed themselves.

Novel idea with titan but even if you summon it first off the AI will already have 20+ troops plus its own titan and instakill it.

Tried the sentinal route, virtually wiped out before I could even get construction cast twice. All 20 sentinals killed without retaking one shrine.

playing at 50% the AIs speed isn't the issue its the cheating.

I appreciate the help but I remember why I quit playing now. Days of impossible BS watching imps in slow motion.

[Green.Sliche]

Originally posted by USBsatan:

yea i'm sure you don't unlock achievements if you hack it. the only way i won the skirmishes against the cheat AIs was to break them, keep walling off their troops till they rebelled and killed themselves.

Novel idea with titan but even if you summon it first off the AI will already have 20+ troops plus its own titan and instakill it.

Tried the sentinal route, virtually wiped out before I could even get construction cast twice. All 20 sentinals killed without retaking one shrine.

playing at 50% the AIs speed isn't the issue its the cheating.

I appreciate the help but I remember why I quit playing now. Days of impossible BS watching imps in slow motion.

Using trainer does not impact the achievements. Tested and works successfully. Not the best way to unlock stuff but I suppose if you don't want to deal with all of this, you can go this route.

[USBsatan]

Could you explain to me what the trainer is please? I was aware of the God mode but that's disabled.
And yes tbh I will never open the undergames again once I unlock the achievments so I'm happy. If it's going to cheat I might as well too.

[Green.Sliche]

Originally posted by USBsatan:

Could you explain to me what the trainer is please? I was aware of the God mode but that's disabled.
And yes tbh I will never open the undergames again once I unlock the achievments so I'm happy. If it's going to cheat I might as well too.

Google WFTO trainer.

Allows you to give yourself unlimited gold, mana, sins and so on whatever map you are playing. You can use it to legally cheat your way through UG if you don't want to bother doing it the standard way.

[shanaqui]

There's also a guide with debugging cheats that would allow you to spawn a level 10 Gnarling army or anything else you desire if you just search for that. IIRC from a friend's version, that does still trigger the achievements, though it's pretty unsatisfying to get them that way!