Regarding the difficulty and roleplaying

[Windir]

It's been 3 years since I began to follow the development of The Age of Decadence. During that time I've witnessed the same heated discussion regarding difficulty time and again. I feel like there's much more to the game than failed skill checks and dying in the first battle.

Here are my two cents. Feel free to agree or disagree.

Yes, the game is difficult in many ways. For a newcomer it's challenging enough just to figure out a decent character build, especially if you're not familiar with old school cRPG:s. But even when you get past that threshold there's still a lot of things that's guaranteed to halt your progress to some extent. Certain ill-thought-out decisions will leave you in very unfavourable situations that it might be extremely hard to recover from. Some people rely on "savescumming" to get past difficult fights or failed skill checks. Others give up and start over with a new character and a slightly more optimized build. Yet others just give up and don't return to the game at all.

Now, if you're like me and care more about the actual roleplaying experience than optimizing builds and metagaming here are some advice. Go ironman. That's right, I just told you to play the game using only one save. This means that death is final and the consequences of your actions will be tangible. Instead of taking your loremaster to the slums and recklessly telling a group of armed men to "F&%! off!" you should carefully consider the motives and capabilities of the character you're playing. Even as a battle-hardened mercenary you should choose your opponents and surroundings wisely instead of swinging your sword at everything that moves. In the end you'll find yourself outnumbered with your back to the wall and there's no going back. There's nothing wrong with turning down quests and fights that are clearly beyond your comfort zone.

When you fail a skill check, and you will, just continue playing. If you somehow tried to talk your way out of a fight and failed due to low charisma and persuasion you'll most likely die a brutal death and hopefully learn something from it. If you couldn't effortlessly kill a certain character due to insufficient skills in dexterity and critical strike you probably shouldn't even have tried. If you couldn't reach the "best" possible solution for a quest due to a missed skill check, just admit your flaws and move on.

Yes, skill checks may seem arbitrary at times but all this means for me is that every [option within brackets] isn't necessarily a win button. When I feel that a situation might escalate I take the option that's least likely to result in me getting my throat slit from ear to ear. If that means paying a toll to a couple of thugs or missing out on certain areas of the game, so be it. If I'm fairly confident that my character is capable of talking his way out of the situation I'll at least try to.

This may be a no-brainer for veterans of storydriven cRPG:s but it might also be a gamechanger for people who are new to the genre and just want to try The Age of Decadence for the first time. As the developers point out this is a harsh and unforgiving world and you, the player, are definitely not in the center of it. There are other characters in the world that are way more powerful than you so tread lightly. A big part of the roleplaying experience and excitement to be had from this game comes from surviving against all odds. I've had a ton of characters die in as many different ways and it all becomes part of each characters story.

We have Davos the assassin who thought it'd be a good idea to kill a guard in broad daylight. Then we have Vesemir the loremaster, who for reasons unknown, assaulted a well guarded outpost armed with only knowledge and a sharp wit. Kerghan the famous mercenary misplaced his trust and found himself poisoned to death. Then we have Nihilus the praetor who managed to influence powerful individuals and kill thousands, all without unsheating his dagger. The list goes on and on.


Finally some general advice regarding fights, since you're bound to find yourself fighting for your life one way or another:

1. Be prepared. Repair your armor. Coat your weapons with poison. Reload your crossbow. Load up your belt slots with utilities (bombs, alternate weapons, nets etc.). Be sure you know how to wield your weapon and how to avoid taking damage before you commit to a fight.

2. Evaluate your opponents and surroundings. Look for choke points that you can take advantage of. Which opponent is most likely to cause you trouble? Do you have a window to apply damage over time-effects that'll soften up your foes while you maneuver the battlefield?

3. Use the right combination of positioning, weapons and attack. When possible try to attack from the side or the back. Use an attack that has the best combination of chance to hit (THC) and inflicted damage. Having trouble hitting a slippery target? Use a net and pin your foe down with aimed attacks on the legs. That big battle axe looking awfully sharp? Try to reduce your enemys accuracy by going for his arms and head. Surrounded by a group of wounded soldiers? Swing your weapon in a 360-degree arc and try to take down as many as possible before they get the chance to attack. Need to isolate an enemy from his friends? Throw some liquid fire in their midst and then take care of your foe before his friends maneuver around the fire.

4. Keep your foes at bay. Don't let them gang up on you. Okay, this probably the hardest part of many fights. You'll have to carefully consider which enemy to go for at a certain time. Don't be afraid to use other enemies as shields when needed. If they're standing on the only free tile next to you others won't be able to hit you as easily. Your back to the wall will help in many cases, at least if you can take a punch. Otherwise you might consider running ahead of your enemy and forcing them to spend their actions points while chasing you.

5. Fights aren't based on luck alone. All the above will effect the outcome of the fight in some way. There's a huge difference in how you approach a fight if you've got experience. A good idea might be to play as a combat oriented character just to get a feel for the combat mechanics and all the options that are available to you. This will also grant you a certain understanding of the kind of fights that can be won and the kind of fights you should avoid at all costs. (Savescumming approved).

I'm in no way an expert but I've done quite a lot of combat with different builds. Still, I die as soon as I make a bad decision (I died 100 times and got the achievement...). The mandatory fights are rarely a problem. Usually there are ways to weaken your enemies somehow before the battle initiates. The optional fights are a completely different story. Just stay away if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

Try to enjoy the game for what it is. An unique approach to storydriven cRPG:s. And if you can't do that, well there are plenty of other games on the market that are nothing at all like The Age of Decadence.

[Goral]

Firstly, learn to use paragraphs. Secondly:

However when they say COMBAT is difficult they mean for the player not for your targets

Are you serious? Did you really expect that when they said that the combat is difficult it's difficult for your opponents? WTF?
As for healing, there is a freaking HEALER marked on the map, how is it not obvious? And if you go to the inn the innkeeper will ask you if you want him to get the doctor. And shopkeepers have healing salves. In Fallout 1, Arcanum, Betrayal at Krondor and other great RPGs you also had to figure out yourself how to heal yourself. The only difference was that you could rest there but in AoD you have to work and don't have the luxury to sleep whenever you want. And it should be no surprise that you can't heal duirng combat, no opponent would allow you t bandage yourself during the fight and there are no magic stimpacks here (well, there are one or two items that can heal you during fights but they are available later in the game).

If you play Ironman mode then the enemy should be just as lame as your character and easier to kill if they have no damn armor on and the fact that you have a longer reach with a sword , not to mention a shield too?

If you want to play ironman style you need to know this game and use some basic tactics at least and not just click on the enemy. See here: https://youtu.be/_9oCOPtF8VM
It also should be obvious that a veteran killer would be more deadly in rags and with a dagger than you in armor and with a sword. If someone would give you a sword and an armour and you would be against a skilled cutthroat you would not survive because you would be too slow and too unskilled with a sword.

You have to learn from your mistakes and check the stats that are shown in the upper right corner and act accordingly. If you have problems with some fights just ask on the forum. You can also watch tutorial, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOhnrzuN8ds

[Buzzerker]

You know people the 'monsters' in this game come right after you think you're successful in combat , especially if you play as an assassin. No matter if you have a shield and an iron sword some guy will come after you , naked as a jay bird with a sharp twig and stab the crap out of you well you stand there holding your useless shield and sword looking like an idiiot , I wish I could be the guy with the sharp twig but alas , not a playable character......lol...they should call this game , the fast talking merchant.....

[Buzzerker]

Originally posted by Goral:

Firstly, learn to use paragraphs. Secondly:

However when they say COMBAT is difficult they mean for the player not for your targets

Are you serious? Did you really expect that when they said that the combat is difficult it's difficult for your opponents? WTF?
As for healing, there is a freaking HEALER marked on the map, how is it not obvious? And if you go to the inn the innkeeper will ask you if you want him to get the doctor. And shopkeepers have healing salves. In Fallout 1, Arcanum, Betrayal at Krondor and other great RPGs you also had to figure out yourself how to heal yourself. The only difference was that you could rest there but in AoD you have to work and don't have the luxury to sleep whenever you want. And it should be no surprise that you can't heal duirng combat, no opponent would allow you t bandage yourself during the fight and there are no magic stimpacks here (well, there are one or two items that can heal you during fights but they are available later in the game).

If you play Ironman mode then the enemy should be just as lame as your character and easier to kill if they have no damn armor on and the fact that you have a longer reach with a sword , not to mention a shield too?

If you want to play ironman style you need to know this game and use some basic tactics at least and not just click on the enemy. See here: https://youtu.be/_9oCOPtF8VM
It also should be obvious that a veteran killer would be more deadly in rags and with a dagger than you in armor and with a sword. If someone would give you a sword and an armour and you would be against a skilled cutthroat you would not survive because you would be too slow and too unskilled with a sword.

You have to learn from your mistakes and check the stats that are shown in the upper right corner and act accordingly. If you have problems with some fights just ask on the forum. You can also watch tutorial, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOhnrzuN8ds

[Buzzerker]

Originally posted by Goral:

Firstly, learn to use paragraphs. Secondly:

However when they say COMBAT is difficult they mean for the player not for your targets

Are you serious? Did you really expect that when they said that the combat is difficult it's difficult for your opponents? WTF?
As for healing, there is a freaking HEALER marked on the map, how is it not obvious? And if you go to the inn the innkeeper will ask you if you want him to get the doctor. And shopkeepers have healing salves. In Fallout 1, Arcanum, Betrayal at Krondor and other great RPGs you also had to figure out yourself how to heal yourself. The only difference was that you could rest there but in AoD you have to work and don't have the luxury to sleep whenever you want. And it should be no surprise that you can't heal duirng combat, no opponent would allow you t bandage yourself during the fight and there are no magic stimpacks here (well, there are one or two items that can heal you during fights but they are available later in the game).

If you play Ironman mode then the enemy should be just as lame as your character and easier to kill if they have no damn armor on and the fact that you have a longer reach with a sword , not to mention a shield too?

If you want to play ironman style you need to know this game and use some basic tactics at least and not just click on the enemy. See here: https://youtu.be/_9oCOPtF8VM
It also should be obvious that a veteran killer would be more deadly in rags and with a dagger than you in armor and with a sword. If someone would give you a sword and an armour and you would be against a skilled cutthroat you would not survive because you would be too slow and too unskilled with a sword.

You have to learn from your mistakes and check the stats that are shown in the upper right corner and act accordingly. If you have problems with some fights just ask on the forum. You can also watch tutorial, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOhnrzuN8ds

[Buzzerker]

Originally posted by Goral:

Firstly, learn to use paragraphs. Secondly:

However when they say COMBAT is difficult they mean for the player not for your targets

Are you serious? Did you really expect that when they said that the combat is difficult it's difficult for your opponents? WTF?
As for healing, there is a freaking HEALER marked on the map, how is it not obvious? And if you go to the inn the innkeeper will ask you if you want him to get the doctor. And shopkeepers have healing salves. In Fallout 1, Arcanum, Betrayal at Krondor and other great RPGs you also had to figure out yourself how to heal yourself. The only difference was that you could rest there but in AoD you have to work and don't have the luxury to sleep whenever you want. And it should be no surprise that you can't heal duirng combat, no opponent would allow you t bandage yourself during the fight and there are no magic stimpacks here (well, there are one or two items that can heal you during fights but they are available later in the game).

If you play Ironman mode then the enemy should be just as lame as your character and easier to kill if they have no damn armor on and the fact that you have a longer reach with a sword , not to mention a shield too?

If you want to play ironman style you need to know this game and use some basic tactics at least and not just click on the enemy. See here: https://youtu.be/_9oCOPtF8VM
It also should be obvious that a veteran killer would be more deadly in rags and with a dagger than you in armor and with a sword. If someone would give you a sword and an armour and you would be against a skilled cutthroat you would not survive because you would be too slow and too unskilled with a sword.

You have to learn from your mistakes and check the stats that are shown in the upper right corner and act accordingly. If you have problems with some fights just ask on the forum. You can also watch tutorial, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOhnrzuN8ds

So how do you run to the healer or the inn to get a doctor when you are facing your third or your sixth opponent? I guess you can just start over and better luck next time huh? Or maybe avoid combat and talk or pay your way out of it until you learn to make health potions? AN ASSASSIN IS NOT A SKILLED CUTTHROAT? Then how did he get to be an assassin? lol

[Buzzerker]

a dagger against armor , shield and sword , your argument is the attacker has more skill and that is equal or greater than the sum of all that ...all I can figure from that is the guy with the dagger must be a damn ninja or Bruce Lee himself , and in the case of the latter he would not even need a dagger now would he? If he attacked me with his bare hands and did a Bruce Lee karate move , I'd say , Oh , must be Bruce Lee that's why he just killed the crap out of me...that I could at least accept....assassins in ths game should not be called assassins at all , they are weaklings and should instead be called thugs. OR maybe street punks?

[Goral]

Just post a save from before the fight and we will help you. You also might try to improve your skills before going after those assassins by doing other quests in Teron.

As for your Bruce Lee argument, see here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/230070/discussions/0/490123197946992902/?ctp=12#c358415738207568958

Yes, believe it or not but a skilled cutthroat in rags would make a short work of someone slow in armor and with a sword unless you would be at least close to his ability. But regarding this fight, you can post your save and we will help you, you will see how easy it is for some to win it.

Also, if you want to bring action RPGs to this just as you think that a guy with a dagger should always lose to someone with a sword I say that even an epic hero should always lose to Diablo. But it's a game and certain rules apply. Age of Decadence isn't super realistic but it is the most realistic RPG I know. And it's not unfair because the same rules apply to your opponents and the only advantage you have over them are your wits.

And if you still insist that a guy with a dagger should always lose to a guy with a sword and an armour no matter their skills, that would mean that a dagger build would be impossible. Which would be a huge shame because playing as a freaking cutthroat is one of the most satisfying build in AoD.

[Buzzerker]

why is it you cannot sleep and heal..simple , you have to exchange money , to replenish your hitpoints , low on money , and you get in combat with low hitpoints no matter how far you got with those low hitponts , you die and start over. LAME..and armor can break after one combat? what the hell is that?

[CXXXV]

Originally posted by Buzzerker:

why is it you cannot sleep and heal..simple , you have to exchange money , to replenish your hitpoints , low on money , and you get in combat with low hitpoints no matter how far you got with those low hitponts , you die and start over. LAME..and armor can break after one combat? what the hell is that?

consequence

[ADAM & eva hanim]

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
335 hrs on record

Fallout 4
184 hrs on record

Why i'm not suprised.

Oh wait, there is more: positive review of fallout 4 and negative review of Wasteland 2

Wasteland 2 is a good name for this piece of monumental crap. Buy Fallout 4 instead. Thsi will only ♥♥♥♥ you off. Could have been cool but although the graphics are nice the game play is retro , the play map is confining , claustrophobic , the combat is mediocre , it's like the people who made this game knew how to make the graphics better but the game mechanics are as old as Fallout , by that I mean the first one.....

Some of us like to get our hands dirty

And some of us want to play crpg that is not limited to walking around and killing things.
You know like in modern beth and bioware games.

[Vince]

Originally posted by Buzzerker:

I have one thing to say about this game, I just bought it , I read all the bullcrap about how combat is difficult and it's not like your average RPG , yet they offer ASSASSIN and MERCENARY as two character options.

I don't see the contradiction.

What is odd is when I played as an assassin I was successful with two jobs had to kill a merchant and his bodyguard , the merchant was easy the bodyguard fought , I took damage , here is the kicker , no way to heal was obvious or presented, or even made clear to me. The result being my next mission I had to go on with reduced hitpoints and I had to kill two more people this time spies one with a lightninig fast dagger the other with a crossbow , I killed both of them. but then a third one comes in and I'm down to 11 hitpoints by this time...

Well, for what it's worth you seem to be doing very well for a new player. You simply didn't know that you could visit a healer between fights.

If you play Ironman mode then the enemy should be just as lame as your character and easier to kill if they have no damn armor on and the fact that you have a longer reach with a sword , not to mention a shield too?

Why? The third guy is described as a soldier. He's simply not wearing armor which doesn't mean he's easy to kill. The fact that he has a dagger doesn't mean he's weak either as daggers aren't inferior to swords as a weapon class.

It should be possible to be a warrior just as well as a fast talking politicial type, to limit the combat side is just foolish in my book.

It IS possible to be a warrior. It's even possible to be a great warrior, you just don't start the game as one.

Combat is hard in this game, it's hard for every new player so what you're experiencing is perfectly normal. Keep playing and you'll get better at it, simple as that.

Here are some player submitted builds:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/391044006147489617/6A621927F07A339F3575403E94E72C023EB61C0E/

Str 7, Dex 8, Con 6, Per 8, Int 7, Cha 5, bodycount 155
Hammer 8, Dodge 10, Critical Strike 6, Lore 8, Persuasion 8, Crafting 6, Streetwise 5, etc.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/394421705868950440/75C85ECCE7979E440D6445477A35523B8EE33473/

Str 5, Dex 9, Con 5, Per 8, Int 6, Cha 7, bodycount 109
Dagger 9, Dodge 9, Critical Strike 7, Alchemy 6, Streetwise 6, Impersonate 5, etc

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/382036806896257013/B00403C16CE17A55C23AF08305021966511D6E61/

Str 8, Dex 8, Con 6, Per 8, Int 7, Cha 4, bodycount 328, note that the character has no defense skill and is relying on Critical Strike instead.
Axe 9, Critical Strike 7, Crafting 10, Lore 8, Persuasion 6, Sneak 6

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/393295805964083287/5E3E9E32132B35FA9643F91CF51BCA7D6ADFBC2B/
knife fighter with Dex 4, a shield, streetwise, and 222 kills.

[Racocac]

Originally posted by tavicroix:

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
335 hrs on record

Fallout 4
184 hrs on record

Why i'm not suprised.

Oh wait, there is more: positive review of fallout 4 and negative review of Wasteland 2

Wasteland 2 is a good name for this piece of monumental crap. Buy Fallout 4 instead. Thsi will only ♥♥♥♥ you off. Could have been cool but although the graphics are nice the game play is retro , the play map is confining , claustrophobic , the combat is mediocre , it's like the people who made this game knew how to make the graphics better but the game mechanics are as old as Fallout , by that I mean the first one.....

Some of us like to get our hands dirty

And some of us want to play crpg that is not limited to walking around and killing things.
You know like in modern beth and bioware games.

Do fanboys like you have nothing else to say to critics of the game other than naked ad hominems? Believe me, this reflects poorly on you, not the Skyrim player.

[revanbh]

Just wanted to tell the devs that Windir's OP is the reason why I ended up buying the game. And I'll play it ironman as well, even though I'll die a lot. :)

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Warren:

This guy is 100% certified hardcore.

More an amateurish player, his advices are play like a Roguelike except it's not a Roguelike sigh.

With a Roguelike you can restart the game 100 times and get a very different play each time, in that context play fail, replay fail, replay fail, replay fail, replay fail, replay fail, replay fail, replay fail, replay fail, replay fail, replay fail, ad anuseam, can work.

Not in a game like AoD without real randomization.

I was looking for good advices and just get some bad advices, sigh.

[dareios90]

Well, about the Roleplaying.

If I choose to be a Loremaster, the game will present me only missions/quests that I will be able to "beat" or the game will show me ALL the quest (I mean, also combat quest that obviously my character can't achieve).

I ask because my nerdish Loremaster didn't finish also the 1st fight in the Arena...

P.S. Sorry for my gramatics, I'm Italian.