Another take on nitro/boost

[MoshPete]

I can somewhat understand people saying that nitro is unrealistic, but i think they are missing the game-mechanical point. A flatout-based nitro system has great advantages:

- If you fall behind because, say you were rammed off by an opponent and smash objects off track, you are still able to catch up via the gained nitro. It's a perfectly self-balancing system where you are able to stay in the race! Oftentimes being wrestled off track isn't skill based at all.

- One of the great things of "wreckfest" is the physics engine and it really shines when it comes to destroying objects, flipping cars, etc, which is what will happen all the more often.

Don't get me wrong, the nitro system has to be balanced so that if you drive "perfectly" an object-destroying driver isn't going to get near you.

Now, I'm really excited to hear the negative sides on this system that most people seem to hate in the forums! (other than being unrealistic...) Mostly it's just an unreflected 'no nitro' or 'this is not nfs' answer, are there real arguments too?


Before you answer: have you even played flatout?

Edit: Reminder: They were advertising it as the new flatout.

[Jori]

Oh, trust us, we're well versed on what nitro can do as a gameplay mechanic, balance mechanic, special effects gimmick and feelgood method! After all, we've used nitro for that purpose in our previous games, and it's been good.
So, we're not siding on leaving nitro out of the game because we somehow dislike the whole concept. That's not it -- we absolutely, positively love the sudden burst of speed and the enhanced, visceral impacts it allows! Nitro is a great mechanic, and we enjoy using nitro in games we play.

The question therefore is: why are we leaving it out?

Because we don't think it would fit the style we're working on. It's a matter of the "right feel" of Wreckfest -- some elements we love will not make the cut, and some individual elements we don't enjoy that much will be in the game, because they'll support the overall experience. To be more specific, nitro could upset the balance of skilled driving and the risks and benefits of dirty play.

That being said, we haven't 100% decided against nitro just yet. We are concerned that the players who get the short end of the stick and get rammed off the road immediately after the race starts feel dismayed that they're out of the picture right off the bat, because they'll have a hard time catching up to the lead car, or even the middle positions. This is supposed to be fun, after all, and it can suck real bad when you know you got shafted due to no fault of your own. Then again, that's the spirit of real life banger races, right? There's no backsies there, just metal against metal, hoping for the best :)

Anyway, we're looking for ways to keep the car pack more closely knit together, so that you won't be so easily left behind. For now, though, neither that feature, nor nitro, will be in the game :)

[medicinehead]

glad to hear it jori,nitro will ruin the game

[MoshPete]

Thanks for the quick and informative answer! I liked the "dirty" racing in FO, but it depends on what you are aiming for.

Otherwise the game is looking great so far and I'm excited of what's to come. Keep up the good work :)

Originally posted by medicinehead:

glad to hear it jori,nitro will ruin the game

care to say why exactly?

[medicinehead]

Its completely out of place,You dont find it in RL derby why would it fit into its digital representation.Also it wouldnt get used in the way that you suggest it would just turn into a ramboost or takeout tool

[Sam223]

http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,1818.0.html 34 pages of discussion here so not sure it need to be raked over again.

Your catchup idea is a fair point.But you can catchup without nitro,especially if there are a lot of rough drivers.Then you can reasonably expect there to be other pileups further along the track.

If its clean racing and you crash,why should you have a catchup button? shouldn't you just drive better.

Another arguement is that currently the game is not designed with nitro in mind.So simply adding it as mechanic would most likely cause issues with physics,car balance,track layouts.

Do you make the cars all stronger so they can withstand a 200mph hit vs the current 150mph 1 hit takedown (guestimation speeds)?

For me adding nitro would not make racing any more competitive,exciting or fun. It would just move wreckfest into similar arcade racer territory. Whereas now without the arcade gimmicks its standing firmly on its own.

[beerland]

Meh, nitro would feel out of place in this game imo. Would make it way to arcade'ish.

[MoshPete]

To me, the most elegant solution would be to make a nitro/FO/oldschool mode and make it optional. I'm well aware of the additional dev time, so you could put it in as a (free) dlc after the game is done, for example.

Now to your arguments sam223,

if you are a good driver, it is often times not your fault that you land on top of your roof, it's mostly because of aggressive driving of the adversary, so boost could get you back on track faster.
if you are a bad driver, all the boost in the world would not help you to catch up to a good driver, because it makes the car even harder to steer (as in FO).

The design point: nitro shouldn't raise your max. speed, but it should give you an acceleration boost only (again as in FO). This would be fairly easy to implement i guess. Where the most of the work really would flow in, would be the level design: where to put destructable objects and how many and how much boost does each give. ---> wouldn't really affect the non-boost mode

and beerland, your comment is just a variation of the realism argument, which is valid ofc, but not really helpful, because its a knock-out argument....

[beerland]

Helpful or not, that's how I see it. Nitro would ruin this great game imo :p

[Dr. Fly (Tyger)]

Originally posted by medicinehead:

glad to hear it jori,nitro will ruin the game

There could be an option to activate/deactivate it...

[Boss 429]

This game is pure arcade,it is nowhere near being a sim,beamng drive now thats a sim!!.So yeah why not have nitros,turbo boost,hell even guns they would probably fit in to this ARCADE!!! racer very well.

[Cornkid]

Originally posted by rcracer:

This game is pure arcade,it is nowhere near being a sim,beamng drive now thats a sim!!.So yeah why not have nitros,turbo boost,hell even guns they would probably fit in to this ARCADE!!! racer very well.

damn thats such a well thought out post, with plenty of insightful reference points, particularly the bit about the sim like handling of beamng.
thanks rc m8, you have changed my perspective totally.

[NineEyeRon]

Get the game well developed and balanced first, if Nitro can go in it must be right at the end and only if needed. To build a game around it being necessary will not set this title apart from others.

A realistic sim nitro system could work, just I am not one of the people who would want it in the direction I hope this game goes.

[Boss 429]

Originally posted by Cornkid:

Originally posted by rcracer:

This game is pure arcade,it is nowhere near being a sim,beamng drive now thats a sim!!.So yeah why not have nitros,turbo boost,hell even guns they would probably fit in to this ARCADE!!! racer very well.

damn thats such a well thought out post, with plenty of insightful reference points, particularly the bit about the sim like handling of beamng.
thanks rc m8, you have changed my perspective totally.

your welcome m8

[Don Vincenzoo 57]

don't need nitro . crah or let last one crah . hope that will slow down the first if he i quick enough to come to them ! pray god and cry !!

[Fluffy]

I'm on the anti-nitro side of the argument as well, however, if it had to be in at all then I'd prefer it to be the case that every player has one burst of nitro that they can use per race ...which, now I think of it would negate the value of it entirely, therefore (since I've invested some time into typing that and don't want to delete it) I will instead strengthen my anti-nitro position and say "Never, you hear ...NEVER!"

On a more serious note, I played a few hours of 10-lap oval last night and found that, regardless of how badly I was screwed at the start or during the first lap, I was usually able to get into the top 5 across the finish line by avoiding trouble later on, as even those who got clear of the carnage early on ended up either slowed by back-markers or involved in accidents. I know this is less likely on the longer tracks, but the game ultimately rewards careful drivers on some tracks.

One significant (but slightly off-topic) point is the difference that car setup has. Early on I was unable to get a sub-19 second lap, but after changing the car setup I consistantly had a best-lap time of under 19 seconds. With this in mind I think it would be a good option for a race host to be able to specify that all reacers have the same car spec in order to level the playing field to ensure that noone has an advantage just because they've got the non-driving skill of being able to select the optimum car setup for any given track ...perhaps with an option built-in which selects the Developer's recommended setup for any chosen car.